The Emperor's Memory Cards Are Wearing No Clothes !!!

[TheDingo]

...and they mark up their media vastly (much like Panasonic at the dawn of P2) and lock you into their ecosystem.

But Panasonic created something new with their P2 cards: solid-state memory cards built on internal RAID controllers that would error-check and correct write errors as they happened. This made P2 cards pretty much bullet proof compared to any other type of memory card. Sure they were expensive, but you definitely got something very unique for the price you paid.

Where RED appears to be repackaging consumer grade SSD drives and then marking them up a huge amount. I would have more sympathy for RED if they chose to use the best industrial SSD drives available to repackage.

 

[Greg_E]

Let's remember how fast P2 was when everything else struggled with speed and size, there is a lot more to using the RAID array than just error correction. If RED had used a similar technique, even just a simple mirror, it would have been better for the consumer.

 

[DLD]

The most interesting thing about this topic is that a bunch of people that don't own RED cameras are babbling on for 15 pages about something that doesn't concern them. It's the human behavior here that is the most interesting. As he said, RED owners are defending RED and non-owners are griping about it. Most peculiar.

Military forums are populated by people - close to 100% by this point - that never fired a shot from a Tiger or a Spitfire. (and if someone claims he was inside an Ohka, he probably meant during the after hours in the Smithsonian). But people debate all sorts of topics, if purely for their intellectual curiosity. At other times, they do it to relieve stress. At others still, to create it.

 

[NorBro]

That's what the guy in the video pointed out a few times, so he was just repeating it (or adding to it).

 

[Mitch Gross]

The thing that I find most interesting about this is that it is nothing new for RED. When the original RED One was released the original hard drives were $900 (I think, it's be awhile) and contained a standard pair of Hitachi 5400 rpm hard drives and a small RAID controller board. We used to joke that the most expensive component on the drive was the big fat Lemo connector. The same SSDs inside RED MiniMags are inside the drives AJA makes for the KiPro Quad, Ultra and other devices. It's all nothing new but someone just spells it out and suddenly everyone is shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here.

 

[cyvideo]

Does Sony allow you to shoot on off-brand SxS cards on the F55?

Yes you could if you had some of the original Sandisk SxS cards which were available in a number of capacities. Sandisk actually developed these cards to replace the ubiquitous PCMCIA card technology. Sony entered into an agreement to co-produce these cards as it suited the development of their EX range of cameras. Quite a number of laptops including MacBooks came out at the beginning of the SxS revolution with SxS cards slots instead of the PCMCIA slot. Incidentally PCMCIA is the basis of Panasonic's P2 developments but that is a different story. In the end because of the price of SxS media for the laptop world SxS never really took off and Sandisk dropped production of them. Sony though had now tied itself into this SxS technology by adopting it for its EX1/3 cameras so it had to continue to support and continue development with this SxS technology.

Chris Young

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200704/07-0416BE/index.html

 

[NorBro]

Cool story. Media has just been such a mess all of these years, naturally.

Even with tapes and their different sizes.

 

[DLD]

SxS reminds me of Elcaset.

 

[Liam Hall]

This whole debate; a billionaire knows how to make money.

Who'd have thought?

 

[jamedia.uk]

This whole debate; a billionaire knows how to make money.

Who'd have thought?

I thought the whole debate was about a company making claims about its own products and those of a competitor that are alleged to be fraudulent.
Also making allegedly illegal claims about their own products.

No one minds companies making money legitimately.
It seems a lot of you don't mind being conned either.

As the Scottish Play says equivocation is a route to hell.

 

[Liam Hall]

I thought the whole debate was about a company making claims about its own products and those of a competitor that are alleged to be fraudulent.
Also making allegedly illegal claims about their own products.

No one minds companies making money legitimately.
It seems a lot of you don't mind being conned either.

As the Scottish Play says equivocation is a route to hell.

Er, no. You have totally misunderstood my point. I never said I was fine with it.

 

[Greg_E]

The "Made in USA" is going to burn them with fines. they should have said "Assembled in USA with parts from USA and 'other' countries" like some many other products list. That is probably an FTC violation.

 

[jamedia.uk]

The "Made in USA" is going to burn them with fines. they should have said "Assembled in USA with parts from USA and 'other' countries" like some many other products list. That is probably an FTC violation.

The Jinni videos said they failed the "Assembled in the USA" criteria too but their argument for that seemed to me to be less robust.
I wouldn't made that allegation on video that given where the legal proceedings appear to be. That might come back to bite Jinni on the bum.

 

[Run&Gun]

Yes you could if you had some of the original Sandisk SxS cards which were available in a number of capacities. Sandisk actually developed these cards to replace the ubiquitous PCMCIA card technology. Sony entered into an agreement to co-produce these cards as it suited the development of their EX range of cameras. Quite a number of laptops including MacBooks came out at the beginning of the SxS revolution with SxS cards slots instead of the PCMCIA slot. Incidentally PCMCIA is the basis of Panasonic's P2 developments but that is a different story. In the end because of the price of SxS media for the laptop world SxS never really took off and Sandisk dropped production of them. Sony though had now tied itself into this SxS technology by adopting it for its EX1/3 cameras so it had to continue to support and continue development with this SxS technology.

Chris Young

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200704/07-0416BE/index.html

View attachment 136352

There’s an old thread on here that says SxS stands for ‘Sony by Sandisk’.

 

[Barry_Green]

Yes you could if you had some of the original Sandisk SxS cards which were available in a number of capacities. Sandisk actually developed these cards to replace the ubiquitous PCMCIA card technology. Sony entered into an agreement to co-produce these cards as it suited the development of their EX range of cameras. Quite a number of laptops including MacBooks came out at the beginning of the SxS revolution with SxS cards slots instead of the PCMCIA slot.

Not quite accurate though; you're conflating "SxS" with "ExpressCard". ExpressCard is the card that was developed to replace the PCMCIA slot, and ExpressCard is the slot that laptops have on them. SxS is a proprietary standard that uses the ExpressCard slot. There are many ExpressCard products out there that have nothing to do with SxS. There are many external memory cards in the ExpressCard standard that are not SxS-compliant, and the EX1 would not acknowledge them, even though they worked fine in a laptop's ExpressCard slot.

SxS stood for "Sony x SanDisk" (or "SanDisk x Sony", likely depending on who you ask) and was a proprietary media card standard, premium-priced, like P2. It was not a general-purpose standard, it was an exclusive and proprietary standard built on top of an existing and accessible laptop standard, again, like the P2 card. The P2 card was built on the PCMCIA standard, the SxS card was built on the ExpressCard standard. A PCMCIA card is not a P2 card, and an ExpressCard is not an SxS card.

 

[Greg_E]

The Jinni videos said they failed the "Assembled in the USA" criteria too but their argument for that seemed to me to be less robust.
I wouldn't made that allegation on video that given where the legal proceedings appear to be. That might come back to bite Jinni on the bum.

I looked it up on the FTC site. If you only read the first sentence, then these would be OK. But if you read the entire paragraph they do not pass. Not being a lawyer who can twist the definition of any word, I can only take those words at face value, and RED misused the "Made in USA" label.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

Must U.S. content be disclosed on products sold in the U.S.?
U.S. content must be disclosed on automobiles and textile, wool, and fur products. There’s no law that requires most other products sold in the U.S. to be marked or labeled Made in USA or have any other disclosure about their amount of U.S. content. However, manufacturers and marketers who choose to make claims about the amount of U.S. content in their products must comply with the FTC’s Made in USA policy.

 

[jamedia.uk]

In the videos Jinni said that Red failed the "made in USA " criteria and also went on to say they would fail the "assembled in USA" too... however I think , IANAL, whilst they are correct in alleging the failure to meet the "made in" I am not convinced they also faile the "assembled in" criteria.

 

[Greg_E]

Assembled in USA with components from domestic and foreign origin would be fine, I have a lot of stuff label in a similar way. They could also go designed and assembled in USA. Or at least I think they could, again I'm not a word twister like some of the lawyers can be.

 

[dcoughla]

given where the legal proceedings appear to be. That might come back to bite Jinni on the bum.

There are multiple lawsuits at play. Last time I checked, RED (plaintiff) dropped their suit against Jinni (defendant), stating that they found out through discovery that Jinni is effectively broke and therefore they would wind up paying their attorneys more to litigate the case than they could hope to recover. I believe Jinni's YT videos went up soon after this happened. Possible Jinni believes he is judgment proof.

I believe Jinni still has a suit open (as Plaintiff) against RED (Defendant), but last time I looked at that one Jinni's attorneys kept recusing themselves, so who knows if it'll ever make it to trial.

 

[Benjobe]

The most interesting thing about this topic is that a bunch of people that don't own RED cameras are babbling on for 15 pages about something that doesn't concern them. It's the human behavior here that is the most interesting. As he said, RED owners are defending RED and non-owners are griping about it. Most peculiar.

I think it can be explained by this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias

Key quote:

"Choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization is the tendency to retroactively ascribe positive attributes to an option one has selected and/or to demote the forgone options.[1] It is part of Cognitive science, and is a distinct cognitive bias that occurs once a decision is made. For example, if a person chooses option A instead of option B, they are likely to ignore or downplay the faults of option A while amplifying or subscribing new negative faults to option B. Conversely, they are also likely to notice and amplify the advantages of option A and not notice or de-emphasize those of option B."

Perhaps more specific to this topic is one of the sub-categories of this type of cognitive bias:

"Fact Distortion results in a type of Choice-Supportive Bias when the facts belonging to the chosen option are remembered in a distorted manner.[1] The distortion refers to the objective values and/or features of the chosen option being misremembered in a more preferential way to their actual values."

Also of interest here:

"Studies now show that as people age, their process of memory retrieval changes. Although general memory problems are common to everyone because no memory is perfectly accurate, older adults are more likely than younger adults to show choice-supportive biases."

And finally, IMO perhaps the most accurate description of what RED owners are experiencing these days:

"The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance. Choice-supportive bias is potentially related to the aspect of cognitive dissonance explored by Jack Brehm (1956) as postdecisional dissonance. Within the context of cognitive dissonance, choice-supportive bias would be seen as reducing the conflict between "I prefer X" and "I have committed to Y"."

So you see, it seems perfectly natural for RED owners to feel committed to their products no matter what happens after they purchase them. In fact, I would suspect their bias in regards to this topic. On the other hand, I would value RED non-owners as a more realistic opinion source, considering these cognitive bias theories.