The Dark Knight

David Jimerson said:
Oh, if I based my critique of the movie on the source material, I'd be several orders of magnitude more scathing.

But I don't. I take it as it is by itself, and as compared to Batman Begins. The universe created by Nolan, on its own terms.
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Really?
How about microwave emitters that vaporize the water, with no effects on the populace (%90 water). :D
 
David Jimerson said:
Never said Begins was perfect, either. But it's better. And it also never had the ultra-serious air around it.
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Sorry, it's the same movie. It set the standard and had a huge flaw in it, one of many. The acting in this movie (thanks Heath) helps to elevate it above Begins. The rest of the movie is easily on par with Begins. Flaws and all.

This is not The Godfather, nor is it claiming to be. It's a hell of a superhero movie though.
 
I don't agree. I think that 1) Batman Begins WAS a comic book movie and was intended to be, and captured the feel of the world of Batman much better, and 2) The Dark Knight was very much supposed to be a more "realistic" movie, a Heat or The Departed with Batman and the Joker. And in any case, that's absolutely what so many of the the reviews are calling it.
 
David Jimerson said:
I don't agree. I think that 1) Batman Begins WAS a comic book movie and was intended to be, and captured the feel of the world of Batman much better, and 2) The Dark Knight was very much supposed to be a more "realistic" movie, a Heat or The Departed with Batman and the Joker. And in any case, that's absolutely what so many of the the reviews are calling it.
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Ah, you said it! You can blame reviewers for that!
It's still a comic book movie. The fact that some of them have dared to compare it to Heat shows just how good it is.

Still, you won't see a guy in a bat suit chasing after another guy with half a face in The Departed. I think that says it all.
 
But Nolan's been going around playing up the "realism" of the film for months. He sees it as more than a comic book movie.

But again, the point I'm making there is that you can't hype the "realism" of the movie and then just say "comic book movie" every time the realism is challenged.
 
David Jimerson said:
But Nolan's been going around playing up the "realism" of the film for months. He sees it as more than a comic book movie.

But again, the point I'm making there is that you can't hype the "realism" of the movie and then just say "comic book movie" every time the realism is challenged.
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Sure you can. It's probably the most realistic comic book movie to date.
That I'll argue. But I won't compare it to movies like The Departed in terms of realism. That's just silly!

IMHO
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Sure you can. It's probably the most realistic comic book movie to date.
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That qualifier is seldom, if ever, appended to the accolades.

But again, if you're going to ratchet up the praise, then increased criticism is completely fair. The more you insist it's realistic, the more relevant the problems become.

Believe me, I wanted to gush about this film. But I was disappointed.
 
David Jimerson said:
That qualifier is seldom, if ever, appended to the accolades.

But again, if you're going to ratchet up the praise, then increased criticism is completely fair. The more you insist it's realistic, the more relevant the problems become.
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Quite the opposite. It is just as flawed as the last Batman movie. That I'll agree with. I suspect that you won't though. Even though the flaw I pointed out in Begins is bigger than anything in the Dark Knight.

BTW, I mentioned a long time ago in this thread about some serious plot holes. I'm not insisting that's it perfect at all. I never would.

You came in here comparing it to Begins in terms of realism. It easily stands side by side with that comparison. They both have issues, this one was just better acted and a hell of a lot more entertaining.

Cheers!

Mike
 
David, I just wanted to say thanks for the interesting conversation as I'm off to bed. Regardless of the fact that we obviously disagree it was fun analyzing the movie/s.

Cheers!

Mike
 
David Jimerson said:
But Nolan's been going around playing up the "realism" of the film for months. He sees it as more than a comic book movie.
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This is the big thing that struck me. The last film was cartoony (though not as cartoony as the previous Batmans), while this one was going for an ultrarealistic look (and flopped IMNSHO). The discrepancy in styles was disturbing.

Also disturbing was the very numerous plot holes (some already mentioned -- I can add a few more), illogical setups and sequences, and choppy pointilesque dialogue (which I kinda liked at first, but quickly grew annoying).

Still, it was a pretty good action movie -- easily one of the best action movies of the year.

If I seem overcritical, it's because of reading everyone else's glowing opinions and having a higher-than-usual expectancy of greatness before seeing it. I was expecting better.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Quite the opposite. It is just as flawed as the last Batman movie. That I'll agree with. I suspect that you won't though. Even though the flaw I pointed out in Begins is bigger than anything in the Dark Knight.

BTW, I mentioned a long time ago in this thread about some serious plot holes. I'm not insisting that's it perfect at all. I never would.

You came in here comparing it to Begins in terms of realism. It easily stands side by side with that comparison. They both have issues, this one was just better acted and a hell of a lot more entertaining.

Cheers!

Mike
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Everything's much better when you don't take it personally. :beer:
 
David Jimerson said:
Ah, but the movie takes ITSELF exceptionally seriously, as do most of the gushing reviews of it. You forgive something which never pretends to be anything it's not. But you're correct to be more critical of something which holds itself up to a higher standard.

This movie was not made to be a mere "comic book movie."
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Thats fair, I guess it comes down to whether these little things really affected your viewing experience. You say you started realizing that it wasn't as good as you originally thought a few days after seeing it, but if these things didn't bother you during your viewing and you were able to enjoy it its not really a big deal.

If they affected your original viewing then its all very understandable. Either way, I respect your opinion and your not wrong, even if I don't share the same feelings.
 
Daryl Auguste said:
Thats fair, I guess it comes down to whether these little things really affected your viewing experience. You say you started realizing that it wasn't as good as you originally thought a few days after seeing it, but if these things didn't bother you during your viewing and you were able to enjoy it its not really a big deal.

If they affected your original viewing then its all very understandable. Either way, I respect your opinion and your not wrong, even if I don't share the same feelings.
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Exactly. As I said... put Batman Begins under the same microscope and you will find plot holes all over the place.

I also want to read where Nolan said this wasn't a comic book movie? I think we are assuming quite a lot here. I will tell you this though, it seemed like more than a comic book movie to me. Maybe that's why people are comparing it to movies like The Departed. Quite the compliment for a movie about a guy in a bat suit chasing a guy who looks like a demented clown and a man with two faces. :)

The only mention of Heat that I can find in his interviews was about his choice of using Chicago as Gotham.

Your first Batman movie, "Batman Begins," was epic and globe-trotting. But "The Dark Knight" is almost entirely set in Gotham.
In making a sequel, one of the demands I felt was to make it bigger, to expand the canvas. But it was clear to me that, having gone around the world in the first movie, that wasn't the way to do it this time. I was thinking a lot about films like Michael Mann's "Heat," where you have a story that is contained within a single city, but that city feels like a truly massive place.
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LINK

Cheers,

Mike
 
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David Jimerson said:
How does one "apply an existing technology," one which was specially created in a single modified phone, to 30 million cell phones already on the street? And considering he has to go to Fox every time he wants a little upgrade, how does he even know how it works or how to apply it? And in a couple of hours?
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I believe there is a large break in the film's time period. Like a few months or so. I don't think it happens within a few days. I may be wrong but I got that impression at one point.
 
I saw this movie cold, i.e. did not read any review or hear any hype. I was in Israel for two weeks so I had no idea how much praise this movie was getting or how well it was doing. I got home Saturday night and went to see it that evening with my brother.

Walking out of the theater I told my brother this felt like more than just a comic book movie. It wasn't cartoonish in anyway and it tried to deal with real issues of vigilantes and villains. For me, it worked on so many levels.

Sure it has flaws, Batman Begin has flaws but I loved that as well. To me these films are on par with any other great film out there. Its not just a great comic book film Its a great film period. The only other comic based films to achieve this are Superman I and II.
 
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