The Dark Knight Rises

briannatalore said:
. I would love to see ClayFace as a villain though.
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So would I. He was a great villian in the 90's cartoon series. But I don't think Clayface would fit with Nolan's "Real World" batman film. Clayface would require too much CGI for it to work within the nolan universe. But if he could pull it off it sure would be something to see.
 
Richard J. Johnson said:
So would I. He was a great villian in the 90's cartoon series. But I don't think Clayface would fit with Nolan's "Real World" batman film. Clayface would require too much CGI for it to work within the nolan universe. But if he could pull it off it sure would be something to see.
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His "Real World" Batman isn't exactly "real world" though.
I'd say it's more a non camp take on the same old thing (I mean that in a seriously good way).

Take Batman Begins for example. The plot of BB is: Ninjas, led by a mystical super villain, plan to poison the city's water supply with their new special drug for no real reason other than to have an excuse to laugh maniacally. Orphan millionaire becomes super hero and fights them.

You can't get more Adam West Batman than use the old "poison the city water supply with a new drug" plot. The only thing Nolan did was to have the sense to take it seriously.

Again, I mean this in the best possible way. I love Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
His "Real World" Batman isn't exactly "real world" though.
The plot of BB is: Ninjas, led by a mystical super villain, plan to poison the city's water supply with their new special drug for no real reason other than to have an excuse to laugh maniacally.
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I don't think it was for "no other reason" than to laugh maniacally.
 
WildTrackDave said:
I don't think it was for "no other reason" than to laugh maniacally.
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You're right. I'm sorry, it was because they had this really old cult thing and they wanted to rule the world and destroy the city so they could laugh maniacally.

The point is, they weren't working out of necessity, like for instance the villains in Casino Royale or Star Wars. They were doing evil because they were evil.

I'm sure that was a very conscious choice by Nolan and he pulled it off great. I think it works perfectly.
 
A well told story is a well told story. And Nolan has proven time and time again that he's a great story teller, so I'm not worried whether or not the next script is "realistic" enough for the Batman films that Nolan has been making. A number of people have pointed it out already, all that's different between the Nolan Batman films and the previous ones is that Nolan approaches the screenplay much more seriously than say Schumacher approached Batman and Robin.
 
I think "Rise of the Dark Knight" or "Dark Knight Rising" sound better than "The Dark Knight Rises."
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
You're right. I'm sorry, it was because they had this really old cult thing and they wanted to rule the world and destroy the city so they could laugh maniacally.

The point is, they weren't working out of necessity, like for instance the villains in Casino Royale or Star Wars. They were doing evil because they were evil.

I'm sure that was a very conscious choice by Nolan and he pulled it off great. I think it works perfectly.
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No, they were doing it because they saw themselves as defenders of civilization against corruption and evil and considered Gotham too far gone to save, and thus it had to be destroyed before it poisoned more of the rest of the world.

Agree with it or not, that's quite a bit more than "doing evil because they were evil" or just to "laugh maniacally."

In any case, you really NEED to have Batman set in a slightly surreal world, or the preposterousness of it will be in sharp relief. I think that was one of the weaker parts of The Dark Knight.
 
David Jimerson said:
No, they were doing it because they saw themselves as defenders of civilization against corruption and evil and considered Gotham too far gone to save, and thus it had to be destroyed before it poisoned more of the rest of the world.

Agree with it or not, that's quite a bit more than "doing evil because they were evil" or just to "laugh maniacally."

In any case, you really NEED to have Batman set in a slightly surreal world, or the preposterousness of it will be in sharp relief. I think that was one of the weaker parts of The Dark Knight.
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That's why Batman Begins is a better film than The Dark Knight, in my opinion. The reasons behind the Villain's plan actually made sense.

Heath Ledger was great in The Dark Knight, but the Joker's role in the larger story was ultimately meaningless. The Joker was just evil for the sake of being evil.
 
David Jimerson said:
No, they were doing it because they saw themselves as defenders of civilization against corruption and evil and considered Gotham too far gone to save, and thus it had to be destroyed before it poisoned more of the rest of the world.

Agree with it or not, that's quite a bit more than "doing evil because they were evil" or just to "laugh maniacally."

In any case, you really NEED to have Batman set in a slightly surreal world, or the preposterousness of it will be in sharp relief. I think that was one of the weaker parts of The Dark Knight.
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That plan makes absolutely no sense. Kill Gotham before the rest of the world catches "Gothamitis"?
Corruption doesn't spread like a virus.

It's a plot point stolen from 60's campy Batman and modernized. An excuse to have the main villain poison the city water supply with a made up drug.

Once again, I'm not saying this is bad. I'm saying it is good. It was disguised in a very good way and made for a very good film.

But it's not more realistic, only less campy, than previous Batman movies.
 
agcohn said:
That's why Batman Begins is a better film than The Dark Knight, in my opinion. The reasons behind the Villain's plan actually made sense.

Heath Ledger was great in The Dark Knight, but the Joker's role in the larger story was ultimately meaningless. The Joker was just evil for the sake of being evil.
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I agree. Batman Begins felt more like a Batman movie, too. The Dark Knight was more like a generic action movie.
 
Jawa Ex Machina said:
That plan makes absolutely no sense. Kill Gotham before the rest of the world catches "Gothamitis"?
Corruption doesn't spread like a virus.
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It makes more sense than the Joker's motivation, which was to show that "plans fail." Why does he care? Why did he choose Gotham? Why was he then surprised his own plan failed?


But it's not more realistic, only less campy, than previous Batman movies.
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You need a little camp.
 
I liked in BB, when he sends out that ultrasonic sound and the swarm of bats come in for "back-up". I wish they had done something more bat related in TDK.

Also, I'm still not entirely convinced the Joker even had a plan. Like he said in the movie, he just "does stuff" and causes chaos. Then again he could have just been saying that to mess with Dent. He's crazy enough to where neither would surprise me.

"The Rise and Fall of The Dark Knight"
 
WildTrackDave said:
Also, I'm still not entirely convinced the Joker even had a plan. Like he said in the movie, he just "does stuff" and causes chaos. Then again he could have just been saying that to mess with Dent. He's crazy enough to where neither would surprise me.
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"It's all part of the plan"

I feel like Joker could get away with having a loose plan. I mean he just wanted to create chaos, to see human nature, to destroy plans. He was crazy after all. But Nolan purposely shrouded his character in mystery. We learned this with his 'backstory' and IMO we saw it with his destruction. It's almost as if he we're just having fun, toying with people.

But hasn't that always been the Joker's plan from every other batman source?

Plus I feel that maybe he did have a reason, just we weren't revealed to it.

Either way I liked it.
 
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