With an external mic attached, shotgun or otherwise, I cannot fathom the use of the internal 'scratch' mic. What purpose would it serve, other than the recording of extraneous, handling noise? As for the firmware update, it does indeed address the ability to turn off the internal mic, however, it did not address the availability of the various other functions on pages 1-3 of the audio module, only several of which become active when the Canon external hot shoe mounted mic is used, the availability of those that remain grayed out remains a mystery.
The Canon R5C Owners Club
- Thread starter Liam Hall
- Start date
cpreston
Veteran
For the number of clients who like to sync cameras with the audio track, it is just easier to keep the mic on. It's a fail safe in case the shotgun accidentally gets disconnected or the wireless hop runs out of batteries. Or maybe the timecode gets messed up and you are stuck relying on an audio sync. It helps if I need to hear what the director or the interviewer said. I've turned off the scratch mic because I didn't trust the editor to mute it, and it came back to haunt me when I forgot to turn it back on for an interview that wanted to use audio of sync. I rarely run my cameras with a shotgun microphone attached anyway.
Interesting, but I've found that the internal mic picks up all manner of extraneous noise, even minor handling of the camera will be recorded and, since I do my own editing, I can easily delete those tracks in post. That said, for the type of work that I do I prefer the audio quality offered by a good shotgun mic. BTW, I have never run into a battery issue with the Tascam XLR adapter which, if one is concerned, can be avoided by replacing the AA batteries before a shoot. However, being able to defeat the internal mic saves time in post, however minimal it may prove to be. But, in the end, we all have our likes and dislikes.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Last week I had an angry producer complain about the audio on one of my interviews. He said there was random crackling and squeaking throughout. I told him the audio was fine. I had monitored it. Annoyingly, I was on location in Kenya so couldn't check the files until I got back on Friday. It played on my mind all week even though I knew the audio was fine.
When I got back I checked it and the audio was perfect. The editor had used the scratch audio on my B-Cam (R5C) and not the A cam. This is now the third time in as many months I have had an editor screw-up and point the blame finger before checking with me first. I'm yet to receive an apology for any of these incidents. W*nkers.
Clermond
Veteran
did you use the Tascam chunk? How do you find the pre-amps of the R5C? I have the impression that they clip quite fast even if the audio levels are all green.
What does winkers mean?
cpreston
Veteran
The preamps on the R5C do clip pretty easily. From my tests, if you running the gain lower than about 20 on the 1/8" input, you are in danger of clipping the preamp. There is a pad available in the menu, but it is a bit of a mystery as to its level or if it is actually even integrated before the preamp.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Wankers. Jerk-offs.
Liam, I would burn the editor for their incompetence. I mean, taking scratch audio from a B camera.... come ooooon
Clermond
Veteran
as non native english speaker I tried to make joke. It obviously didn't work
Liam Hall
Veteran
Internal mics scratch audio on the R5c. The proper sound was recorded directly into my C500MKII. 75% of my shoots I have a sound recordist, I hate doing sound but make a real effort to make sure it is good.
Liam Hall
Veteran
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Liam Hall
Veteran
It's unbelievable. I knew they wouldn't apologise, so I offered to pop-in and do a training session.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Liam, you’ve been around the block…you have to always teach and let people know and not trust the process.
I include production notes with my footage. Several positive and negative, technical and non-technical pieces of information, including a breakdown of what kind of audio is located where.
You would think people would get savvier and have a better understanding for post (those in those positions), but it might even get worse at times and in certain places where unqualified people are cutting.
Basically saying all that to say I would be beyond annoyed, to say the least, if I was you, lol.
I include production notes with my footage. Several positive and negative, technical and non-technical pieces of information, including a breakdown of what kind of audio is located where.
You would think people would get savvier and have a better understanding for post (those in those positions), but it might even get worse at times and in certain places where unqualified people are cutting.
Basically saying all that to say I would be beyond annoyed, to say the least, if I was you, lol.
Clermond
Veteran
in my experience this leads to another level of frustration when you realize they either didn't read it or they didn't understand it.
rogar-Mad(DBG):Anyone using the R5C with a gimbal? Would love to know what other owners are using and what the experience has been like. Currently looking at either the RS2 or RS3 Pro but I'm coming from the Glidecam era so gimbals are new to me. I'll also be looking to use mine with the battery grip and compatible Smallrig cage which I have no interest in dismantling.
NorBro
Major Contributor
in my experience this leads to another level of frustration when you realize they either didn't read it or they didn't understand it.
For sure, no doubt about it...but then you have the notes as a back-up and you can somewhat protect your integrity if you find yourself in a situation where a knucklehead editor is using scratch audio (assuming the scratch audio wasn't actually passable like from a shotgun up close).
I basically compare these notes to 'release notes' that companies use, which is like another department's way of directly communicating with consumers besides the people who make the product(s). So marketing or sales or whomever could be like [to the engineers], "Could you just say a few things about this new release so people can refer to that for now?"
Clermond
Veteran
I am using it on the RS2 occasionally but mostly with the R5 because of better AF.
I have the SmallRig half cage with a bit mixed results:
pro it's small. it's okay for stills shooting because you have access to all buttons. It has an integrated Arca plate and enough mounting points
con I have the impression it's bending a bit even with 3 mounting points for the camera
SmallRig has a baseplate replacement for the RS2/3. I has an integrated Arca profile and that makes mounting of the camera with the half cage very quick.
Peter Malkhom has many useful videos for gimbal set up on his channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/PeterMakholm
Most important advice: practice.
hth
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
in my experience this leads to another level of frustration when you realize they either didn't read it or they didn't understand it.
I think you need to be careful delivering camera notes in terms of keeping it short and sweet. I get a camera report for every shoot I edit for Christie's auction house, and I virtually never read them. It's a standard form that reports color profile (which I don't need to read since it's embedded in the camera metadata), framerate (likewise embedded), color temperature (not relevant since I don't necessarily know the color temp of the light sources and I'll just grade off a colorchecker passport or reference photo anyway). Then the AC usually makes some notes about the content of clip ranges. I'm not going to rely on that since I'll be reviewing all the footage anyway.
So, there's nothing for me on these forms but a waste of time, and I rarely open the PDFs at all.
But on the last edit I did for them, I received A/B camera footage with multiple audio tracks embedded, as well as audio files from an audio recorder. Which audio tracks was I supposed to use? I opened the camera report to see if it could help me out. Nothing about audio tracks. So, I synced all the files and then listened to what was embedded in the footage to compare it with the standalone audio files. OK, tracks 3 and 4 on A camera were boom and lav, same as the audio files. But everything is already synced, so I'll just turn it all off except the audio recorder.
Then it came time to use room tone for the audio mixing. Usually this is its own clip, or at the beginning or end of a longer clip. Nope, nowhere. I glanced through the waveforms, didn't see it. So I went back to the camera report -- nothing about room tone. Did they not record it? I asked the producer. She said they did. She asked someone else. OK, it was between first and second takes. It ended up being 15 seconds in the middle of a 30-minute clip
So, if I had those 2 pieces of information - which audio tracks should I use and where is the room tone - it would have been hugely helpful. But I didn't need anything else
cpreston
Veteran
I bought the R5C for the sole purpose of using it on a gimbal. I'm using the Zhiyun Crane 2S which still doesn't have a way to control aperture and iso, but it does have control for the focus motor and start stop. If you try to change the iso or aperture from the gimbal, the camera will freeze. It looks like DJI has figured out how to control the R5C in video mode. For the Crane gimbals, I turn down the angle speeds to about as low as they can go and reduce the dead band to 1 or 2 degrees.
The key I have found to getting reliable results with a gimbal is to use a lens with good IS. You can get great results with unstabilized lenses, but it needs to be balanced perfectly. The 24-105 f/4 has IS that tries to lock onto a point so it can look jerky. The 16-35 f/4 is more forgiving and can get great walking shots. The best lens I have used for gimbal work is the 18-135 stm. It is one of Canon's few lenses that has what they call "dynamic IS" and is designed to maintain stability for video work. The IQ is marginal, but for event work it is invaluable. Set the camera to S35, the aperture to f/5.6, and you can get a broad range of shots quickly.