The Canon DSLR Audio thread

You can see my test of the EV RE50 N/D (An industry standard hand held mic for intervides) in this video, as well as the Plug-on transmitter. Otherwise known as a butt plug. It's a transmitter that you put on the bottom of a dynamic mic (or any mic that does not need Phantom power). You use that instead of the regular Sennheiser transmitter that you plug a lav into. You can not use both at the same time. So basically you can have your Sennheiser / lav on to wirelessly go into the camera, or you can use a hand held mic with the butt plug to wirelessly go into the camera, or use the Rode VMP. I'm not exactly sure, but with an XLR adapter from Rode, you may also be able to use the plug-on in conjunction with the Rode VMP, making that mic wireless as well. One receiver on the camera, with 3 ways of micing people (but not all at the same time) - Lav, hand held mic, VMP on a boom. You don't need to use the RE50 though. You could get a cheaper mic like the regular ER50 (without the N/D).

Here's a hand held for 100.00: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...T8004_Handheld_Omnidirectio nal_Dynamic.html

 
Very cool. So, this "butt-plug" (::snicker::), I see takes an XLR input and throws it out to the standard wireless receiver I already have from Sennheiser.
That's very interesting- is there some kind of Phantom Power involved in the transmitter? Because I was under the impression that the reason my old XLR mics don't work well on my current camera was because they all need phantom power (I've got some Azden, Sony, and other mics from my old full sized camera). I bought an XLR-to-3.5mm cable before I knew enough about audio to realize that wasn't going to work.

Do the Sennheiser wireless systems have Phantom Power? In which case, would my G2 lav system accept one of my XLR mics (using the adapter to go into its 3.5mm input) and amp it before wirelessly going into my camera's input? It would be kind of cool to not require more hardware yet...
 
I said the Sennheiser G2/G3 plug-on does not deliver phantom. It's for dynamic mics like a hand held interview mic (RE50 N/D). Dynamic mics don't need phantom. Condenser mics need phantom. Some condensers that run on batteries will work with this plug-on too, like the Rode M3 (you may like this one) NTG-2, or NT3 (not the NTG-3). There are more expensive plug-ons that provide Phantom from Sennheiser, but I don't know if any would be compatible with the G2/G3 wireless.
 
Ah, ok that makes sense.

Thanks for your patience in explaining all this- I'm apparently still quite the n00b when it comes to audio equipment.
I inherited most of my gear from a documentary shoot a few years ago, but I wasn't the one in charge of audio so I got left with a bunch of equipment that I'm really unfamiliar with. All I know is that these mics worked really well with my DVX100 at the time, and so far the only one that has had good results with my DSLR is the Sennheiser G2 system since I could crank up the gain.

Meanwhile, some of these old mics I have here DO have batteries, like this Azden SGM-2x. I recall plugging it directly into the camera using an XLR to 3.5mm adapter, and finding it way too quiet, even with a fresh battery and the switch turned to the highest setting on the mic. I found the same thing with a Sony ECMMS907 Condenser, again despite having a battery.
Are you saying that if I feed either of these through the Sennheiser system it would be usable? Or does that still need phantom power? I didn't think to try it through the wireless. Still, for shotgun style mics, I think investing in the Rode VMP would probably be a better solution.

I'll have to do some experimenting... I've got tons of gear from that production here, some other shotgun mics, a boom pole, etc. There's got to be some way I can re-purpose this stuff to work with my current setup!
 
What's cool about using a battery operated shotgun like you have, is that with the wireless stuff you can turn up the gain just like with a lav, so you'll get as good a signal as when using a lav. Going straight into a camera without something to boost the gain will give lackluster results. So as long as the mic works on battery it's a candidate for use with the Plug-on transmitter. Or there are phantom power units too that are made to supply phantom power to mics. I mentioned the Plug-on because earlier you said you (or someone in this thread) wanted to interview people. So a nice dynamic interview mic and the plug-on are exactly what you need for that.
 
Chadfish said:
What's cool about using a battery operated shotgun like you have, is that with the wireless stuff you can turn up the gain just like with a lav, so you'll get as good a signal as when using a lav. Going straight into a camera without something to boost the gain will give lackluster results. So as long as the mic works on battery it's a candidate for use with the Plug-on transmitter. Or there are phantom power units too that are made to supply phantom power to mics. I mentioned the Plug-on because earlier you said you (or someone in this thread) wanted to interview people. So a nice dynamic interview mic and the plug-on are exactly what you need for that.
Click to expand...

Agreed, its a good solution.
I'm now just trying to see what I can do with what I got before investing in more stuff. ;)
 
Chadfish -- saw your VideoMic Pro video on the Rode website. Great stuff. Not necessairly the music. I'm on the budget plan and wanted to use my existing VideoMic (not the new Pro version) so I bought the poor man's JuicedLink, the ART USB Dual Pre for $69 from B&H. The output of the VideoMic just isn't powerful enough on its own. So I'm only partly happy with the ART preamp. I have to crank up the gain on the ART to 40 - 48db to get a strong enough signal to match the signal of my G2 with AF Out set to +6db. When I bought it I thought gain referred to boosting the existing signal. But that's not how the ART works. It lowers the signal at the lower gain settings than what is coming out of the VideoMic on its own. I was disappointed by this. I like the simple setup of the VideoMic Pro and G2 being fed into the T2i with a simple splitter cable. But $250 for the Pro version will have to wait a while. Are you familiar with the ART device?
 
Chadfish -- I have a second question for you. My G2 transmitter allows you to input a mic or line level signal. One of the reasons I bought the ART device was to boost the signal of the VideoMic into the G2 transmitter so I can use my existing VideoMic as a wireless shotgun. Can you check your VideoMic Pro to see if you get a hot enough signal running directly into your G2 transmitter? I'd like to know if that is an option for a wireless shotgun. I am seriously considering returning the ART preamp and springing for a VideoMic Pro shortly, especially after seeing your setup where you're using a splitter cable to feed the Rode and G2 into the T2i. That is so much simpler than the bulky setup I decided to go with.
 
Just experimented with my wireless G2 system with the Sony and Azden mics mentioned above (ECMMS907 and SGM 2X).
What a difference it makes having the G2 as an amp!

The Sony mic was more than loud enough, and while not as elegant looking as the plug-on transmitter, having a wire go into the transmitter on a belt clip would work for an interviewer on foot I think. I just need to find my pop guard for that mic, as it seems to Pop Pretty Profoundly, Peaking my P's (which I kind of expected without the guard). ;)

The SGM Azden mic wasn't quite as loud, and required around another +15db in post (I probably could have adjusted it more on the sennheiser preamp to avoid that). But even then, it introduced a lot less hiss and noise than I expected.
All in all, I really think this could work if I needed it to.

My next question is whether or not the Sennheiser wireless system is necessarily the best way to preamp this kind of thing. I mean, does it seem silly to always be wireless if I don't need to be?
Yes, going wireless is very convenient, but if I don't need phantom power, what about a cheap amp like the Fiio mentioned earlier in the thread? For $10, I can make minor adjustments to the mic level on the fly. I wonder if the amp is of low quality, however. For all I know, a $10 amp might be worse than the one in camera (although might be worth having for amping the headphone monitor).
Any opinions on that?
 
@Dishe -- Glad you tried it with your mics. My VideoMic just doesn't output a hot enough signal to go directly into the G2 transmitter without additional gain. My idea was to use this setup on a boom pole and have the boom operator look at the level meter on the G2 transmitter to make sure there is a good signal with no peaking. It's an inexpensive option if you already have the G2 lav setup. I'm just irked the VideoMic doesn't put out a hot enough signal. That's why I'm considering the new Pro version. Hope to get feedback from Chad on this.
 
I've heard the Fiio is quieter than the camera pres.

Raz I don't know why you aren't getting a louder than mic level signal with the art thing. It says it gives 48db of clean gain. Maybe there is a Hi/Lo gain switch. Try it on Hi. But really you should get a decent preamp. The DS214 is only arounf 150.00 - but is not for XLR mics. You got to pay to play. Anyway, maybe the issue is the sensitivity on your G2 receiver. Turn that up. You should be able to plug a mic into the G2/G3 wireless and get a decent signal. I don't have time to do any tests for you. My mics do not have a sennheiser connector anyway. I'll be doing a shootout and trying some things later. Stay tuned...
 
I haven't tried it, but I have heard others have and it worked. It's a 20.00 investment, and if it doesn't work you can just use it as intended as a very small headphone amp. It's cool that it charges by USB too - and lasts for 20hrs.
 
I got myself one of those Fiio adapters, have been using it to amp my headphones to listen to monitors during filming. Haven't tried using it as a mic amp yet, will get to that one of these days and post my results.

Meanwhile, I updated the first post to include the recommended ways of doing things in my opinion.
 
Hey! This is a great thread, very helpful. I am about to purchase a canon t3i and am looking for the best external microphone for loud concerts and events (mostly loud electronic music with heavy bass). It would preferably be inexpensive (definitely under $100 if possible) and small, since I'll need to be holding it up high and moving around all over the venues and anything bulky would make that difficult. Do you possibly have any suggestions? Or do you think the internal mic would be good enough for that sort of footage? Sorry to bother you, thanks for your help!
 
For what you want to do I'd definately make sure you have manual level (the ability to turn down) control. I'd tr the Rode VideoMic Pro, which has a 10db pad too. It's more than 2x your hoped for price, but 100.00 isn't realistic for anything.
 
The regular Rode VideoMic is another option. It's larger but less expensive. And it has a 20db pad for concerts if the 10db doesn't attenuate the signal enough. It has great reviews.
 
rszebras said:
The regular Rode VideoMic is another option. It's larger but less expensive. And it has a 20db pad for concerts if the 10db doesn't attenuate the signal enough. It has great reviews.
Click to expand...

Going straight into the camera with the Rode VideoMic is going to require some significant gain using the camera's weak preamps. The VM Pro, however, can be bumped up +20db so you can leave the camera's gain at zero (I think that's the feature Chad meant to speak of, padding the line doesn't seem to be of much use in this situation IMO).

As we mentioned earlier in the thread, you want to leave the gain on camera as close to 0 as possible, because they will introduce noise fairly quickly.
 
so i have a quick question about audio as I'm looking to upgrade a few things, I currently have a rode videomic, which i run straight into my t2i and disable the agc with the cable hack, but I'm thinking of going to a Zoom recorder...

firstly do I explicitly need a Zoom H4n? or could I just as easily use a H1 or H2? i presume I'd still get good audio out of the older models? i'm just thinking cost here...

secondly, are there any issues with using the videomic and zoom recorder that might reduce the quality of the audio? or should i be good to go if they were hooked up and whacked on a boom pole?

thanks..
 
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