Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
Oh I know my friend, I know very well. :beer:
Terminator Salvation
- Thread starter Evan S
- Start date
Oh I know my friend, I know very well. :beer:
Nektonic
Veteran
While I don't know how much day care costs, but I completely agree with what Deep said about Salvation. There are some plot holes and problems, but overall the good elements easily outweighed the bad elements in this film.
Hopefully the next films will go towards the dire state of affairs that the post Judgement Day world was in during the T1 and T2 future war segments. Also, something that I think could also be explored more in the next two films (if they make them), and was mentioned briefly in this film, is how the common survivors and resistance soldiers view John Connor as a religious figure, as a sort of Messiah. I mean, look at T2's subtitle Judgement Day. Surely religious tensions, mythology, and speculations would run wild amongst those that survived the nuclear holocaust. As long as it doesn't become too big of an element, I think this could be an interesting element for them to explore in the war against the machines milieu of these supposed next Terminator films.
My favorite plot hole is from a similarly themed film, The Matrix Revolutions, which reveals a massive plot hole in its third act (this being the third act of the final film in the trilogy). When Neo and Trinity are in the hovercraft warship and are under attack from a bunch of enemy war machines, Trinity pulls up and ascends into the dark storm wracked clouds above. Eventually the ship breaks through the dark layer of clouds and comes up above to a layer where the sun is shining and basically looks heavenly.
Now, since the machines in The Matrix trilogy were using human bodies as batteries, wouldn't if have been easier for them to build solar cell arrays using the same hovercraft tech that both they and the humans posses? These could then float up in the upper atmosphere or in space and microwave beam the collected solar energy down to collection arrays on the surface of the planet.
But this particular moment in the film is beautiful and has real meaning and impact. I really don't care if it isn't the most logical solution because it is in there to add to the symbolism, mythology, and overall grandeur of the story.
Hopefully the next films will go towards the dire state of affairs that the post Judgement Day world was in during the T1 and T2 future war segments. Also, something that I think could also be explored more in the next two films (if they make them), and was mentioned briefly in this film, is how the common survivors and resistance soldiers view John Connor as a religious figure, as a sort of Messiah. I mean, look at T2's subtitle Judgement Day. Surely religious tensions, mythology, and speculations would run wild amongst those that survived the nuclear holocaust. As long as it doesn't become too big of an element, I think this could be an interesting element for them to explore in the war against the machines milieu of these supposed next Terminator films.
And again, the thing that I can't quite figure out is why I liked the movie as much as I did even though I"m sitting here pointing out so many of its plot holes?rogar-Thinking(DBG
I think it's because, as George Lucas once said to Lawrence Kasdan about a Star Wars plot hole, "If we put in enough action nobody will notice."
My favorite plot hole is from a similarly themed film, The Matrix Revolutions, which reveals a massive plot hole in its third act (this being the third act of the final film in the trilogy). When Neo and Trinity are in the hovercraft warship and are under attack from a bunch of enemy war machines, Trinity pulls up and ascends into the dark storm wracked clouds above. Eventually the ship breaks through the dark layer of clouds and comes up above to a layer where the sun is shining and basically looks heavenly.
Now, since the machines in The Matrix trilogy were using human bodies as batteries, wouldn't if have been easier for them to build solar cell arrays using the same hovercraft tech that both they and the humans posses? These could then float up in the upper atmosphere or in space and microwave beam the collected solar energy down to collection arrays on the surface of the planet.
But this particular moment in the film is beautiful and has real meaning and impact. I really don't care if it isn't the most logical solution because it is in there to add to the symbolism, mythology, and overall grandeur of the story.
Nektonic
Veteran
I know, and I have no problem with the machine's reasons and the explanations they gave in the first film and Animatrix. But you could view the breaking through the cloud layer moment in Revolutions as a chance to question why would the machines go to all the trouble to trick humanity into the illusion of the matrix when they could much more easily just build upper atmosphere or space based solar arrays. Of course, there would be no matrix story, or a very different one if that were the case.
Even though it is technically sort of a plot hole in the fabric of the matrix universe, I still love that moment for its thematic value. To me, that is more important than technically perfect plotting in a film.
Sure, they COULD use solar cell arrays, but they're just mean.
Maybe their space program is as slow moving as humanity's current version?
It also happens in previous films, so it is OK
All terminators tend to play with their victims.Beware, here comes my opinion
I think Terminator Salvation is a big and good movie! Come on! It's The Terminator! You should expect terminators and a lot of fighting. Here are some plot holes, but IT IS TERMINATOR, NOT Schindler's List! I see two weekpoints in Salvation.
One -- more then half characters are too blank. We don't get proper feeling about their motivation.
Two -- the future world! Regular viewer doesn't like advanced sci-fi very much. All previous Terminator movies (including Sarah Connor Chronicles) is in "present" time. Even Alien vs. Predator movies were set back to "present". Salvation is unseen, unknow, undiscovered future, that's why some people say, that this is not "real terminator movie"
And once again, why T2 is betten then T4?
Better acting? Betten effects? Better plot?
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
And once again, why T2 is betten then T4?
Some believe so. I am one of them.
The one thing I kept thinking the whole time they were in Skynet was, "where are all the freaking defenses?!"
I mean a machine entity as smart as skynet is not going to leave itself open to attack like that. Why isn't that place crawling with things to kill people?
Nektonic
Veteran
Well, when Marcus was approaching the outer perimeter of the base, there were some awfully powerful looking sentry guns on the outer wall. They sort of reminded me of the way the tank HK's looked in the first two films' future war sequences. Of course, there would be terminators walking around, which they showed, and the aerial HK's would also patrol the outskirts I'm sure.
I saw it as there were probably more defenses that we didn't see, because of budget or the story just didn't require them to be focused on in great detail. I also think that in keeping with the realistic and utilitarian aesthetic that Cameron uses for his sci-fi films, that Skynet would be using some of humanity's infrastructure left after Judgement Day. Their base looked like it was built upon a human industrial complex, maybe a factory or a steel mill. If this were the case, the facility wasn't built with strategic defense in mind, so it makes sense that they would have terminators walking around kinda like an MP might do at a military base. Or how about those terminator motorcycles? They could patrol the perimeter of the base, and even if they couldn't stand up whoever is trying to get in, they're fast and could warn Skynet what is coming.
Also, their sensors and surveillance might be so advanced, yet the plan Connor and Marcus concocted was enough to fool the sensors, add to that the fact that Skynet had their plan to have Marcus lure Connor and Reese into their trap. Maybe they held back some of their defenses to let Connor make it into the base?
I also believe that this was not Skynet's only base, nor was it their prime headquarters. Even if it was their main base of operations, the opening scene showed that Skynet had more facilities in other places. I'm betting that there will be a much bigger Skynet facility in any sequels that are made about the current John Connor / future war.
Yes it is stretching things a bit having John Connor infiltrating the base so easily. I think they could have made it a little more suspenseful. I would, however, like to see them infiltrating a much tougher and larger Skynet base in any sequels. If they take the story in the logical direction of having the resistance defeating the machines, then they could obviously end this new trilogy with Connor, Reese, and their comrades discovering the time displacement chamber just after Skynet has managed to send back the original Arnold, T1000, and Terminatrix models.
Overall though, for me, the good stuff outweighed the nitpicks I had with the plot, world, and characters. Having said that, I think that they could really benefit by having James Cameron come onto the next film in some sort of a producer capacity, mainly to help fine tune some things about the characters and to join in the brainstorming of ideas to flesh out the details of the post Judgement Day world a bit more. Then again, maybe he's totally done with terminators and would want nothing to do with it?
Scott F
Pug Life
Second viewing this weekend, and I still love this movie.
I'm going with that theory. Skynet let him infiltrate, it was part of the plan. Just like in Star Wars they let the Falcon get away so they could track them to the rebel base. I love that shot, after Connor "hotwires" his way in the door, and one of the patrolling terminators walks by. 25 years later and they still look scary!
No doubt.
OK ha ha, on 2nd view, I picked up on countless references to the fact that he has a human heart.
I'm going with that theory. Skynet let him infiltrate, it was part of the plan. Just like in Star Wars they let the Falcon get away so they could track them to the rebel base. I love that shot, after Connor "hotwires" his way in the door, and one of the patrolling terminators walks by. 25 years later and they still look scary!
No doubt.
....Why else do you think they spent most of the movie hammering us over the head with the fact that Marcus still had a human heart?
OK ha ha, on 2nd view, I picked up on countless references to the fact that he has a human heart.
tmnt
King of Australia
Finally got around to seeing this and holy shi*, it was awesome!
The opening scene was hideous and had me very worried but that soon lapsed. The movie is exactly what I'd hoped for and more, everything was done well - no, very well.
Some of Sam Worthington's accent was flawed but overall not enough to kill it for me. Christian Bale was spot on and Moon Bloodgood was another good casting. I think the little girl's character wasn't just a 'hand me a flare at the right time' character at all. To me she was there mostly as a very large bat sized symbol for the future ie. children are the future.
My only gripe was the T-600s didn't get more screen time. Bring on the Bluray director's cut!
The opening scene was hideous and had me very worried but that soon lapsed. The movie is exactly what I'd hoped for and more, everything was done well - no, very well.
Some of Sam Worthington's accent was flawed but overall not enough to kill it for me. Christian Bale was spot on and Moon Bloodgood was another good casting. I think the little girl's character wasn't just a 'hand me a flare at the right time' character at all. To me she was there mostly as a very large bat sized symbol for the future ie. children are the future.
My only gripe was the T-600s didn't get more screen time. Bring on the Bluray director's cut!
RobbySonic
Active member
I liked Terminator Salvation. There are a lot of haters of this film, main reason no Arnie and Arnie antics. But I think they wanted to move away from that and take you into the dark future with some raw action. Really nice effects sequences. And Sam Worhington,nice addition to the cast.
If you are thinking of another SCI-FI follow up film called Transformers-revenge of the fallen.
In my opinion, Not worth it.
Worst action sequel I've seen in years. Two Big thumbs down.
If you are thinking of another SCI-FI follow up film called Transformers-revenge of the fallen.
In my opinion, Not worth it.
Worst action sequel I've seen in years. Two Big thumbs down.
Scott F
Pug Life
Just picked up the Bluray today when I was out buying toilet paper.
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)rogar-BigGrin(DBG)rogar-BigGrin(DBG)I'll let you know how it looks. This version has an additional 3 minutes (yawn) But I hear that there is some 40 minutes of footage that will be added into a future home release.
Chamber005
Carbonite Member
??
The war (I'm assuming you mean the war where John Conner is in command) hasn't happened yet. Reese is a grown man when he's sent back. So there's about 15 years more fighting before that happens.
This movie was just about John meeting Reese and the first T800s coming off the assembly line.
Londude
Carbonite Member
Hang on, I think you're right, as I'm slightly confused. in T2 theres a big war between the machines and the resistence....was this John Connors time or Kyle Reeces? I really need to watch T2 again lol.
Londude
Carbonite Member
For me, Terminator Salvation was a HUGE dissapointment. The terminators were made to look like complete bone heads. In one scene, john connor outsmarts a terminator motorcycle using the good old rope trick from a looney toons cartoon...i mean, come on. And skynets nuclear cells were just lying on a table???? Ridiculous. Skyney was producing all those terminators......so where were they all? Also, the huge robot scene at the old gas station...wouldnt you hear a giant robot coming towards you?? Was it hiding somewhere......perhaps it was disguised as a tire somewhere...i mean...ugghh.......even Bale dissapointed me.......there are so many plot holes. i really hoped it would be good.
Nektonic
Veteran
I liked the film, but I have to agree. I would've rather seen the extra disc used for better behind the scenes featurettes than for this director's cut.
As for the whole war with Skynet, yes, this film didn't have a big epic battle scene like the opening to T2. I do like how they set up a lot of the future stuff in Salvation. If another terminator film is made, hopefully it will move into the full scale man vs. machine war territory with large forces on each side. Although, I suppose that is probably going to be saved for the final battle where Connor and his forces will eventually defeat Skynet and get inside to the time displacement chamber.