.Tape stock choice

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Okay, I know the tape stock issue has been covered in some forums in the past, but last night I just set up an eloborate crane shot for a client, loaded the camera with my dvm63pq tape stock and pressed record.... The timecode was running, but once I stopped the time code blanked out. I rewound the tape and discovered that nothing was recorded on the tape. It was the middle of the night and ran out and rented a PD150 to get me through the night. I cleaned my heads today and the camera has come back to life, and the only conclusion for such a drastic problem is the change in tape stock. I have always used Panasonic tapes with absolutely no problem at all. Mainly (for years now) I've used AY-DVM60EJ tapes. Last month I got 5 tapes that were AY-DVM60EF and now finally I have just switched to AY-DVM63PQ tapes. I was lead to believe they were all dry tapes, but perhaps someone could enlighten me. If I stick with the AY-DVM63PQ tapes from now on what happens when I need to capture from one of the older recorded tapes (other stocks) in the future?

Any help is appreciated,
Dale
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

hey its a very good question. Until recently I was sure I actually had the perfect answer for you... MQ tapes by panasonic where the only dry tapes available, but some higher ups at panasonic have told me now that it is possible that the PQ series have switched to Dry lube. Sony, Fuji, maxell etc. are all wet tapes.

It is pretty gay that this whole tape thing should be a problem, It would be nice if you could just take any tape and put it in and it worked. For this reason I am screwing tapes all together and switching to Hard drive based recording.
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

I've been using JVC DVM60E tapes since I got the camera, and I've never had a single problem.

Correct me if I'm wrong -- digital recording is not like analog recording in that nuances can be lost and quality can degrade over the course of the tape; since what is recorded on the tape is all 1s and 0s, the effect of a degradation would be blocks missing from the picture or sound, but what remains will still be full-quality (not that it would be all that usable). Seeing as all that matters are the 1s and 0s, as long as all of those are reproduced faithfully, what matters the "quality" of the tape?

Is it a matter of durability? Is it matter of gumming up your heads? If you recommend a tape, why do you recommend that one?
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

quality of tape is serious. Low quality Minidv tape will flake and not only cause dropouts, but also create a hell pool for your heads and tape transport. The lubrication is the biggest thing though, mixing tapes with different lube causes a glue that really messes things up.

Just think.. the difference between cheapo tapes and the best tapes are about $3.. thats for an hour... just be glad your not shooting on Film.
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

Ah -- so we aren't talking about recording quality in the same way we would be with analog tape; we're talking about the literal physical quality of the tape, where the 1s and 0s will disappear because part of the tape actually flakes off (and obviously that would be an internal nightmare).

OK -- that being the case, I've been using the JVCs, as I've said, since I got the camera. The universal advice I've seen is you shouldn't switch tapes unless you have a good reason to do so. As I haven't experienced any problems with the JVCs, I'm a little reluctant to switch. Is there more to it than that, or are there more reasons I'd want to go to a "higher quality" (not being a tape expert, I have no idea where the JVCs fall) tape? As it is, I only ever use them once, unless I'm just goofing around.
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

I had a bad tape experience a few years ago with the XL1, and since then I always try run a simultaneous redundant backup to my Digital 8 handycam via firewire. Just set DV CONTROL to "Both" and the backup camera will roll when the DVX does. It works great and gives me that extra sense of security.
Direct to HD would be nice too, but it is very expensive.

http://www.mcetech.com/quickstreamdv.html
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

So any thoughts on what I should do stock wise. Should I stick with one stock (and which one)?

Also, anyone know is some are wet stock and some dry?

And what happens when I need to capture footage from one of the older tape choices?

Thanks again,
Dale
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

Personally, I am giving the big middle finger to tape... and switching to Hard Drive recording (like the La cie or Quickstream DV)
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

I was thinking about doing that, but I'll be shooting alot of run & gun in the field stuff soon... Can't exactly risk shaking a drive to death
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

Tape is a must for me. I travel around the world to some very remote locations where I need portability, minimum power/battery requirements, minimum gear and I'm still faced with the fact that I need to capture from some other tape stocks that I've already recorded on.

So please guys, what's the dope on these tapes? Anywhere that I can find out the true specs on panasonic tape stock?
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

good... i just bought a hundred of em.. wouldn't that suck to find out otherwise ;)
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

I just got my DVX100 about a month ago and used only MQ tapes, and it still ended up having massive problems with the drive mechanism within the first week. It quickly got to the point where the camera made a high pitched grinding/squealing noise whenever it was on. Which is just to say:

1) using the same tape is (obviously) not going to protect you from everything, and

2) is the drive mechanism in the DVX100 significantly worse than other cameras in its class?

It is pretty gay that this whole tape thing should be a problem
Click to expand...

[semi-rant]
Not to get too OT (or annoy the moderator and founder of this extremely excellent site), but can we use a term other than "gay" to mean bad and/or stupid? In all honesty, I don't get really offended by the use of "gay" in this context, as in my experience it's almost always said by folks who use it out of habit rather than homophobia. However, as an enthusiastic user of DVXuser.com who happens to be gay, it is a little, um, unwelcoming.
[/semi-rant]

Sorry to highjack the thread; back to your regularly scheduled discussion of the camera we all know and love.
 
Re: Tape stock choice - PQ vs. MQ

Re: Tape stock choice - PQ vs. MQ

Specifically, can anyone address the difference between Panasonic's Professional Quality (AY-DVM63PQ) and Master Quality (AY-DVM63MQ), esp. with regards to lubricant?

Also, are they really 63 minutes? The camera doesn't seem to think so, though I haven't yet pushed a tape that far to see...
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

This is a very good thread. I too ask myself, what tape, what tape shall I use in the DVX. My situation is even more complex. I have literally HUNDREDS of tapes I have already shot on, with another camera (sony brand) The tapes are the sony excelence tapes. I have had Almost NO issues with over 350 tapes shot on that stock in the sony cameras. However, believe it or not I thought ok the sony premium tapes cannot be that different, so I tried them ONCE. I shot an event w/60 premium tapes and had a WHOLE LOT of issues with the tape, at least.... minimum of 1-3 dropouts PER TAPE!!! So the real question is this.... What is better, DRY OR WET??? Is this completely insignificant as long as you pick one and stick with it (dry or wet)? Is there a webpage or chart with all the manufacturers and tape stocks on them with type of lube, etc???

Thanks
Grant
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

Its a hard call.. because Panasonic told me that the DVX100 heads where designed for dry lubrication.. but to deem that "true" and not sales speak who knows.. Commen sense tells me though a dry lube would be better, as dry lubrication would not atract contamination as a wet lube would.
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

I too have shot hundreds of hours on an Canon XL1 over the past 5 years or so, using regular consume tapes and have had absolutely no problems. After picking up a box of "dry lube" PQ tapes the camera went down. I know it it the cross of the dry and wet lube that did it, but if the XL1 is still going strong after all these years (knock on wood), why bother with the dry lube. As I convert to the DVX100(a), I would like the best for my new camera, but really - what is that?
 
Re: .Tape stock choice

I've shot hundreds and hundreds of tapes since I first got a VX1000 in 1996(?) Endless problems with the "lesser" brands (Maxell, TDK, etc). I stuck with top-end Sony tapes in the Sony cameras, and would average maybe 1-2 dropouts per tape.

When I got the DVX almost a year ago, I went with the manufacturer's recommendation and used MQ's exclusively. Now I average about a dropout every 20 tapes! Dropouts are so rare I was startled when I saw one.

From extensive firsthand experience, I say: "forget whether it's dry or wet or who cares what, if you're using a DVX, use MQ tapes!"
 
Re: Tape stock choice - PQ vs. MQ

Re: Tape stock choice - PQ vs. MQ

Specifically, can anyone address the difference between Panasonic's Professional Quality (AY-DVM63PQ) and Master Quality (AY-DVM63MQ), esp. with regards to lubricant?

Also, are they really 63 minutes? The camera doesn't seem to think so, though I haven't yet pushed a tape that far to see...[/quote]
Don't know about the lube, but they are ccompletely different formulations. The PQ is a cobalt based coating regular density, and the MQ is the latest high density and more expensive and DVX100 recommended, one. see BIZ-NET.com for spec.

Also check out their translated user manual on the DVX100A. A screamingly unintelligible attempt by some machine I have to assume, to document this new camera's features. If the camera works like this document works, you should not own this camera.
 
Re: .Tape stock choice


[semi-rant]
Not to get too OT (or annoy the moderator and founder of this extremely excellent site), but can we use a term other than "gay" to mean bad and/or stupid?  In all honesty, I don't get really offended by the use of "gay" in this context, as in my experience it's almost always said by folks who use it out of habit rather than homophobia.  However, as an enthusiastic user of DVXuser.com who happens to be gay, it is a little, um, unwelcoming.
[/semi-rant]

I'm a new member not the moderator or founder, BUT
Could we PLEASE not let our personal sex orientations and opinions hang out here! Jez - bad and (/not or) stupid... and totally inappropriate political hijacking - as you rightly call it - in my humble opinion.
 
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