Switch between P2 & FS100

L

lawrenceingram

Active member
I've been searching for an hour (I probably am just not very good with my searches) and I can't seem to find this discussed. Is there a way to quickly switch back and fourth between P2 and FS100? I am waiting for a response to my registration so I can get V4 of the firmware, but until then, I need to be able to shoot in 60fps. My Firestore doesn't currently support this (is that right?).

Can anyone tell me of the quickest way to shift onto my P2 card so I can capture 60fps?

Thanks,

Lawrence
 
I use FS-100 V 3.0 and have no problem capturing variable frame rates (including 60fps). I use FCP's "Frame Rate Converter". Not necessary to use P2 cards.

Craig
 
Thanks Craig!

It sounds like there really is no reason to use a P2 card over the Firestore (unless you consider bulk of the firestore itself).

I appreciate your response,

Lawrence
 
It sounds like there really is no reason to use a P2 card over the Firestore
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It'd be hard to find a single statement on this board that I would disagree with more.

The FS-100 is a vastly inferior alternative whose one sole saving grace is that it currently offers larger recording capacity. Other than that, everything is better with the cards than the FS-100.
 
Hmmm. . . Ok, I'll bite here. What advantages are there to P2 if the Firestore will shoot in all the same formats and has easy DTE features? I've still got to import all of my P2 shots to my computer and (unless I'm absolutely choking in extra cash), I've got to constantly move that media to my computer at the site to make room for new footage on my limited number of cards.

I realize that I'm very new to this and may be missing something glaringly obvious, but it'd be great if you'd tell me since I have already invested in P2 and felt I made a bad choice since it seems like all my features are available on my firestore.

Thanks,
 
I'm sure it's been said millions of times, funny thing was that I was having this discussion with a colleague recently, who made a bad impression of the HVX because of the Firestore...The point is that although useful, you cannot compare the robustness, small size and usability of the P2 card with a black brick mounted on the camera's shoe, connected with a dangerously small and unsafe connector, using a hard disk that may fail to record during a sudden move. Not to mention that you have the extra hassle of a default battery that doesn't last long...

I could say more about it, but the thing is if the FS-100 could somehow "attach" and "clip" entirely on the camera using its power, maybe we could be having a different conversation and maybe cineporter looked alot more promising because it looked much more robust.
 
taormina said:
:D Barry's problem is that you never really know where he stands on an issue.....
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Sure you do, just follow logic to the most sensible conclusion! :thumbsup:




And Jazzx listed a good pile of reasons where the FS falls short of P2

In addition to the mechanical issues (battery, moving parts, cabling, weight..)
There are some other places where P2 excells.

P2 is a standard data card, the anythign with an up to date driver can write anything to it - you don't need to update the card for a new feature.
P2 cards can be placed in studio dekcs and played back as normal video media, not just dumped to computer. P2 cards are hot swappable, and you can use multiple ones at the same time - the HPX500 loaded with 32GB P2 cards can allready hold more than the firestore, plus you can hot swap forever.

A P2 card is a P2 card is a P2 card. A Firestore is a NTSC Firestore or a PAL Firestore.

Does the Firestore offer pre-record? (Honest question, I don't know)
Does the Firestore record the metadata? (Does it even do MXF? I don't recall)
A couple of details I don't know of, I haven't used the FS enough to know for sure..


Lots of little things.

The FS is a great unit for basic long format recording untill P2 capaceties catch up. But it lacks a lot of the really big benefits of P2.
It's a step up from tape to "non-linear" recording, but it's a long way from solid state too.


- Mikko ... has NEVER seen a thread asking how to switch between P2 and P2.
 
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Here's my biggest complaints about the FireStore:

1) it's big and cumbersome
2) it's fragile (it's a hard disk, after all)
3) it's noisy (has to have a fan... it's a hard disk, after all)
4) it's tethered (needs to have a firewire cable, and you have to pay attention to make sure it doesn't come detached)
5) it requires its own battery to manage, with its own charger, etc. To me that's just an additional point of failure to have to worry about.
6) You can't play back the clips via thumbnail, so playback in the field is about 6,000 times less useful than it would be from a P2 card
7) You can't see your clips in high def. Not the FireStore's fault, as the HVX doesn't pass an HD signal from the firewire port out to its component outputs, but still, it's a workflow issue that you have to face. If you want to review your clips in high-def, it's impossible to do so from the FS-100.
8) If you use the "PN" simulation mode, you cannot review your audio at all! It mutes the audio on playback. To me that's absolutely unacceptable (wonder if they fixed that in version 4?)
9) The only way to get at that audio is to run the "organize P2" command, and then play the clips from your NLE. Which is fine and dandy, except that now you can no longer record on the FS-100. You will have to copy over the entire contents of the hard disk to the computer, and format the FS-100, before you can use it again. So if the director says "Hey, can I hear playback on that clip" you're basically screwed for about an hour.
10) I don't think the camera metadata gets recorded by the FS-100, does it?

The P2 cards suffer *none* of those drawbacks.

Now -- in the Firestore's favor, it does do a couple of things the cards don't:
1) It can record directly in QT format. Used to be a major advantage for FCP users, but now with Raylight it's a nonissue.
2) It has larger capacity and costs less per gigabyte than the P2 cards.

So the FS-100 serves a purpose. If you needed the cheapest way to record a continuous four hours, currently the FS-100 fills that need. But the P2 cards kick the FS-100's patootie in usefulness and workflow all over the place. The FS-100 claims "DTE"? The P2 cards are the embodiment of DTE: you can edit six streams of high-def straight from the card. The FS-100, you'd get one stream, but I don't think you'd ever get two.

Already you can get two 16GB cards for the price of a FireStore, which gives you unlimited hot-swap recording capability. And two 16GB cards = 80 minutes of 720/24pN footage, likely enough for all but the most demanding of shoot days (without offloading; if you can occasionally put a card in a computer you can keep shooting infinitely).

I confidently predict that as the P2 cards get bigger and bigger, products like the FS-100 will fade into irrelevancy.

Until that point, it does still serve a valid purpose. But this isn't the old days of 4GB cards; we've got 32GB cards coming out in about 8 weeks, and 64GB cards next year, maybe April? The idea of needing to put up with all the limitations of a hard disk recorder is far less palatable now that solid state is large enough to handle just about any job. For those jobs that solid state isn't large enough (yet) to handle, there is still the FS-100.
 
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WOW! A Firestore bashing, cool. The Firestore actually has a good use and that is event recording, and weddings. I like mine.:thumbsup:
 
It definitely has a place. But the question that started this was (paraphrased) "why would I bother with the cards, if the firestore does everything they do?" The simple answer I gave was "it doesn't", but then I was asked for details, so... :)

Forgot one, anyway -- the P2 cards can be used to dub down a standard-def version in-camera, dubbing from the cards to the tape. FS-100 doesn't have that same provision.
 
marketmd said:
Can't wait for a Sony/Pany price war
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Price war...or price fix?
:)


Not that I disagree with anything Barry and Mikko said - but to answer two questions that were asked:

mikkowilson said:
Does the Firestore offer pre-record? (Honest question, I don't know)
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Yes it does.

Barry_Green said:
8) If you use the "PN" simulation mode, you cannot review your audio at all! It mutes the audio on playback. To me that's absolutely unacceptable (wonder if they fixed that in version 4?)
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Unfortunately - no they didn't fix that in version 4.
AND - actually more annoying is that if you have VFR mode ON, allowing you to record native frames in variable rates - no audio is recorded at all now.
Doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize that includes 24fps. So if you're in VFR mode on the FS, and you switch your HVX back to 'default' frame rate - your FS still won't record audio...unless you go into it an switch VFR mode off.

Slightly dangerous in my opinion.
Which is why I haven't even been using the new VFR mode in version 4 unless ALL I was doing was a series of slow mo stuff.
I'd rather deal with the FRC in post than chance getting some footage with no audio on set by mistake.
 
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Wow, Thanks for all the information! Ok, so there are a lot of obvious advantages to P2. However, many of my events require continual attention to the shots and since I work without an assistant, I don't have the ability to leave my camera to hook up a P2 to my computer to download the information.

Other limitations (for me) is that I have trouble even bringing my laptop out with me onto some locations (like in the offshore environment). A camera is safe enough on a tripod, but unless I had some kind portable stand for my laptop, I wouldn't be able to use it (and it would still be more cumbersome than the firestore). Oh, and the firestore does support pre-recording which is of HUGE use. To be honest, I didn't realize the P2 cards supported it as well!

But you guys have made me realize that I did NOT waste my money on my P2 cards. Hopefully, as the price drops, I'll be able to afford more so that my firestore will not be a requirement.

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help answer my question here. I appreciate it.
 
No prob, glad to help. Like I say, the firestore definitely still has a market niche all to itself. I think as card capacities grow, that niche will start shrinking -- with 32GB cards coming out, you could have 2/3 of the capacity of the FS-100 in-camera with the cards. But until then, the FS-100 remains the sole long-format recording system.
 
i have a firestore that i keep around for the simple reason that there is no other option right now (expect maybe live capture, but then youre tethered to a laptop) if you need to run +1 hour of continuous shooting. i used the fs4 with my old xl2 and now the fs100 with the hvx and they have not let me down once.

i do worry about the firewire cable, but luckily it has yet to come loose. i shot on the crowded floor of the average white band show last night and it didnt give me any troubles at all.

of course it took 40 min to transfer the 80gigs to my drive. and now looks like well over an hour to import all that into fcp - so there is THAT issue : (
 
of course it took 40 min to transfer the 80gigs to my drive. and now looks like well over an hour to import all that into fcp - so there is THAT issue : (
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Use Quicktime PN and you won't have that issue.
 
has anyone noticed that when shooting on P2 you can't get it into an AVID if the shoot called for 24PA ?(on a 16:9 NTSC progressive timeline) I can shoot live into an AVID bin using CAPTURE at 24pa and AVID will strip the incoming 2:3:3:2 cadence and result in a 23.97 timeline (but at 4:3 that I have to correct the PAr later using Vegas via a resultant AVID QT reference movie, if I shoot on a pendingg FS100 then I can shoot 24pa and get it into AVID, right ?

Thanks
 
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