support for canon eos lenses

J

jjrr

Member
What is the likelihood of RED offering an adaptor for canon eos lenses?

Also, who here would find such an adaptor useful?
 
an adapter is possible of course, but the lenses would need to remain wide open at all times as its an electronic control.
 
Jarred Land said:
an adapter is possible of course, but the lenses would need to remain wide open at all times as its an electronic control.
Click to expand...

an adapter? I thought the RED was going to have interchangable mounts(with the PL being the standard mount, of course)
 
This brings up a design idea for ALL lens adapters.

This brings up a design idea for ALL lens adapters.

Jarred Land said:
the lenses would need to remain wide open at all times as its an electronic control.
Click to expand...

This would be so lame as to be nearly worthless, so it brings up a good point for all lens adapters: They should have a pass-through array of electrical contacts (say, 10) in a standard location on their exterior. The adapter for each type of lens (Canon, Nikon, whatever) can patch the proprietary contacts from the EOS lens mount (for example) to the contacts on the outside of the adapter. That way, anyone can make an add-on electronic F-stop selector that feeds the proper signal to the lens, without Red having to worry about it.

Will the Red camera control the aperture on Red lenses electronically? If so, it would also be nice if the Red's aperture-control commands were sent to some external port on the camera, so someone can build a signal adapter that would connect to the aforementioned contacts on the lens mount, enabling the Red to control a variety of manufacturers' lenses. This would be in keeping with Red's idea of being an open architecture, allowing third parties to fill gaps with minimal effort on Red's part.

And to answer the other question, YES I'd love to use my EOS lenses if I could control the aperture.
 
Last edited:
Jarred, the lens wouldn't have to be wide open, no matter whether the camera could control the aperture or not. Currently, if you want to use an eos lens with something like an m2 adapter, you just have to use a canon slr to set the aperture to your desired setting and then you have to use that aperture setting; it can be f2.8, f4.0. f8, whatever.

To the others (but primarily to the RED team), correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't it be best to have a standard PL mount, and some sort of adaptor to accomodate any other lens mount you want?

All this brings up a question that I have never understood the answer to, which is: how is iris different from lens aperture? If iris is an electronic control over the amount of light that the sensor deals with, does the aperture of the lens really matter, assuming that the sensor receives adequate light? If iris is just another word for lens aperture, then yes, I would love for the RED eos adaptor to have control over the eos lens aperture.
 
Last edited:
We have a lot of engineering to do to get the camera out and work as promised. For us to engineer a way to use EOS lenses (that don't have a manual aperture control) is probably asking too much. This is where a 3rd party solution would come in handy.
 
Jannard said:
We have a lot of engineering to do to get the camera out and work as promised. For us to engineer a way to use EOS lenses (that don't have a manual aperture control) is probably asking too much. This is where a 3rd party solution would come in handy.
Click to expand...

yeah, some third party could actually develop an EOS mount for the RED that has wiring coming out of it with a device that modifies the f-stop. (and I do believe that something like this exists already)
 
Jim, would it be possible that the RED might have some type of generic power tap that other lens mounts might be able to take advantage of if needed? Just a power pass through from the cams battery to the lens mount surface where lens mounts are... well mounted. Just a flat DC power plate with a positive and negative that gets covered up by the default PL mount but can be interfaced by other mounts.

I could see it being used not just for powering aperture control for some lens mounts like EOS but also possibly some accessories like LED lights around a lens.

Call it an accessory power jack or lens power jack or somemthing like that.
 
Last edited:
jjrr said:
Jarred, the lens wouldn't have to be wide open, you just have to use a canon slr to set the aperture to your desired setting and then you have to use that aperture setting; it can be f2.8, f4.0. f8, whatever.
Click to expand...
That my friend is one really, really retarded solution... workflow wise.

I do agree with you though that an adapter with wiring to control aperture would be the best solution. It wouldnt be all that difficult to develop, and depending on licensing etc. if required, shouldn't be all that expensive.

And yes to be clear I am talking about the auto lenses. the manual lenses will work fantastic.
 
I too would love to use my Canon Lenses on the Red. To be honest I wouldn't be adverse to actually buying some older nikon or canon manual lenses as this is super cheap compared to buying even 1 cinema lens.

I'm not totally clued up with the way it works, but I'm reading that diffrent lenses will adapt to the CMOS in different ways. For instance 16mm lenses will require you to shoot in a cropped mode. What would the deal be with SLR lenses? cropped or full sensor operation?

finally I keep reading that shooting 2K can do 160fps and 1080p only 60fps. Why is that when 2K is slightly larger than 1080p. Is it because the 2K 160fps is cropped too, while 1080p is scaled from the full CMOS?
 
Darkline said:
finally I keep reading that shooting 2K can do 160fps and 1080p only 60fps. Why is that when 2K is slightly larger than 1080p. Is it because the 2K 160fps is cropped too, while 1080p is scaled from the full CMOS?
Click to expand...

The RED will record 120 fps in cropped mode.

My interpretation is, that the sensor itself can do 120 fps (or even more).
The storage system is ready for 2k@120 fps, too. It's the same bandwidth as the 2k scaled-down stream.
My guess is, the DSP can't scale down (and demosaic, encode, etc.) the 4k in less than a 1/60th second continuously.
 
The image circle of a 35 mm SLR lens is much bigger than the 35mm cine frame, which RED sensor resembles in size. Thus RED can use the whole sensor with 35mm photo lenses.

And yes, iris is the controllable lens aperture.
 
Jarred Land said:
That my friend is one really, really retarded solution... workflow wise.
Click to expand...
Well then we are on the same page. Friend.

Using an slr to set the aperture is the only way that I know of to deal with eos lenses. You said that the lenses have to be wide open at all times, but that is not correct, and I was simply clarifying the issue. If you have a number of lenses with different maximum apertures, you can set them to an f-stop that they can all handle. They don't have to be wide open.

As this is the dvxuser.com and not arriuser.com, I suspect that very few of us here have cine lenses, but many of us are likely to have a stock of canon or nikon lenses that might be able to work with this camera as a less-than-perfect solution. I got the impression from Graeme Nattress that we might be able to use less expensive lenses on this camera b/c the sensor is so much bigger and better than the sensors in many other hd cameras (nevermind issues such as focus breathing). I just want to check on the feasibility of using my existing lenses with what should be a very rad video camera. I am considering buying a pretty pricey (for me) prime lens for my still camera, and I'd be much more comfortable plunking down the $$ if I might be able to use it with the red.

If there is such a thing as a PL-to-EOS mount with some way to control the lenses, then someone please let us know where it is. Otherwise, I'll stop pipedreaming about it.
 
Last edited:
Jannard said:
We have a lot of engineering to do to get the camera out and work as promised. For us to engineer a way to use EOS lenses (that don't have a manual aperture control) is probably asking too much. This is where a 3rd party solution would come in handy.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Thus my question: What can Red do with minimal effort to enable third parties to adapt these lenses? And my suggestions are:

1. Expose the Red's aperture-control commands so an adapter can tap into them.

2. If Red is going to build lens mounts for different brands of lens, build them with external electrical contacts that connect to those of each lens. Leave the use of those contacts up to third parties.
 
jjrr said:
Well then we are on the same page. Friend.

Using an slr to set the aperture is the only way that I know of to deal with eos lenses. You said that the lenses have to be wide open at all times, but that is not correct, and I was simply clarifying the issue.

If there is such a thing as a PL-to-EOS mount with some way to control the lenses, then someone please let us know where it is. Otherwise, I'll stop pipedreaming about it.
Click to expand...
yes i totally understand what you meant, and you indeed were correct (although some auto lenses shut down when not powered)

and i dig the pl to eos adapter.. someone has to make one.
 
Last edited:
You mean like the one I was suggesting four posts up?

"patch the proprietary contacts from the EOS lens mount (for example) to the contacts on the outside of the adapter. That way, anyone can make an add-on electronic F-stop selector that feeds the proper signal to the lens, without Red having to worry about it."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top