SUGGESTIONS ON: Giving And Receiving Criticism

Status
Not open for further replies.
So far i've posted my honest comments in the individual film forums, and I'm not a video guy, but I've received backlash for what I said/typed. Since this is my first fest that I am a part of, as a what I would call an everyday normal "viewer," I have already received backlash for what i've said/typed.

I know nothing about film. Maybe this hurts me or really hurts me, (especially professionaly) in the eyes of this board, but from the posts I've seen it seems like many are "masking" their opinions. I just joined this board and want to be an active voice. I want to be a voice of truth to the everyday viewer. Maybe I should just go back to the Pro Tools Users Conference Forums where I belong, and let you video guys have at it.

Either way, I've enjoyend most of the films on here, and I wish you all the best.

KenV
 
KenV,

I hope you stick around and keep on truckin with the honest feedback. Fresh blood is sometimes a good thing. I don't feel your comments, at least the one's I've read, to be malicious. Filmmakers gotta hear the truth, even if the truth sometimes hurts. No two people are going to have the exact same reaction to any film.

I do sometimes sense a little of that "old man's club" vibe on this forum, you pat my back I'll pat yours, but that really doesn't help anyone improve. Acknowledgment is great, but honesty is usually the best policy.

A good rule of thumb is to put yourself in their shoes before writing something that might be taken the wrong way. Artistic types can be sensitive! :evil:
 
Ken it's simple.

You've told one guy his "sound sucked." And another guy "can you say 'loopty lou' in a bad way?" the latter of which sounds a bit "can you say condescending", and that's just in the few posts I've reviewed.

This is not a scolding of you in anyway ... just telling you what is going on, how those comments are received, and why you are getting flack :thumbsup:

If you read the first posts in this thread you might get why some members bristle at comments such as the above. Are they against the rules? No. But are they helpful or polite? No.

How does "sound sucked" help the filmmaker. Try "not very professional" "poor" or "very bad" AND "here's what my issues were with it and try this in the future."

You can say sucked if you want, sure, but if your gonna be that guy say why. (though granted their's not much why to go into on an obvious loop)

Again, would you stand up at a mic in a hushed audtitorium, with the filmmaker and festival director sitting on the stage and say "your sound sucked" and sit back down. Maybe the answer is yes ... and if that's the case ... well ... I won't comment further on that scenario :shocked:

And again, as stated in the first posts of the thread there's no such thing as over critical. Just rude. These guys worked hard on their films, often wearing many many hats out of necessity. So it's not a lot to ask to find a less cavalier way to word things and if bluntness is your style then follow it up with reasons.

However, you're free to go on posting as you have, these are suggestions. But you'll probably continue to receive flack.

And having said that, partly since these are a learning experience for everyone, I do hope you will stick around and continue to offer your unique perspective in whatever way you see fit.

:beer:
 
I wish I'd seen this thread earlier, as Ken seemed to have good intentions before the viewing of the movies. Like JDS said, the manner you went about giving your criticism was a little harsh and not very well supported.

Granted, all feedback is appreciated, hopefully you don't mind getting some as well. Good post Jack...don't know how I missed it earlier.

-Kegan
 
personally, when I post feedback, I know that "pointing at problems" is fairly useless as a critique. anyone can do that. and it's a little careless. I haven't experienced this in my own thread for IFHY, thank god. but i've seen it elsewhere. I don't know, I think we owe it to the filmmakers, who have put themselves out there to be judged, to always makes sure we offer possible solutions when we perceive a problem.
 
Hey Man!!!

I got told I was nitpicking. I almost STOPPED because it seemed like I'm makin' people feel bad and it's not my intent. Even when you're giving out very thoughtful feedback you stand to get bitten in the rear-end.

=P
 
kholi, that sucks. i guess one man's "nitpicking" is another's "being specific". i've read nearly all of your critiques and they are some of the most useful posts in the whole fest. as caffesse would say, please carry on...
 
Last edited:
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
Kholi your posts seem good to me too. Harsh sometimes, but not unecessarily or inappropriately at all.
Click to expand...

That's kinda my point. I'm not using any harsh language, it's harsh because I'm honest with my thoughts. It seems like it's really just better to say "good job" and move on.

Or, just say nothin' at all.

There's a lot of just commenting on the good ones or a friends short, which is why a lot of people who spent time workin' on their shorts have threads that are on page 4. Nobody has said anything.

So! I think in the future I'm gonna follow everyone elses lead and say nothing at all, just comment on the ones I think are good. Stay out of hot water, betterish.
 
It's funny the only reason this thread needs to exist is because we're on the internet. In real life people don't pull that kind of sh*t at fests. People need to realize just because this is the internet doesn't mean it's not a real fest, I mean looking at the f**king awesome prizes!

Nice thread.
 
Kholi said:
That's kinda my point. I'm not using any harsh language, it's harsh because I'm honest with my thoughts. It seems like it's really just better to say "good job" and move on.

Or, just say nothin' at all.

There's a lot of just commenting on the good ones or a friends short, which is why a lot of people who spent time workin' on their shorts have threads that are on page 4. Nobody has said anything.

So! I think in the future I'm gonna follow everyone elses lead and say nothing at all, just comment on the ones I think are good.
Click to expand...

Don't do that (give up). People need to read the receiving section too. I think you usually find something good to say in your posts also. Maybe make sure you do that too, but other than that not much you can do.

I think most people appreciate reviewers like you that take your time to be specific.
 
I posted in every thread. Mostly positive... but usually with a few negative comments. I wouldn't bash the guy over something he's already been told a hundred times though.

A recent critique I received was on some of the acting. As the Director I took that as my responsibility and agreed. Now when someone disagrees with a storyline... they may not always find agreement. I mean, if you conform your initial ideas for everyone... what are you left with? Some people will like it, some won't. I'm cool with that.

Kholi, you are more than welcome to bash my movie as long as you back it up.
:D

Cheers!

Mike
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
...I think most people appreciate reviewers like you that take your time to be specific.
Click to expand...
Yea, Kholi, it's rare that people actually take the time to give in-depth feedback and that's what everyone needs and craves. I guarantee you that your reviews have resulted in people on these boards making better films. Some people know their strengths and weaknesses, others don't, and when they can hear an objective interest, it often gives them a better understanding of how to improve their next film.
 
Who called Kholi nitpicking? I love his reviews as some of the most helpful out there. Who called him nitpicking? I'll murder the guy.
 
Here's an example of some great feedback.

Unfortuntely it was deleted by the original poster after taking the time to really think about the film he was reviewing because he was attacked for being overly critical.

We need to keep reviews like this coming. They take time and thought and should not be shat upon.

a guy who posts good criticism said:
.... Fantasy Filmish! Great way to take advantage of the THEME.

And fantasy/sci-fi is somethin' I Loveish. I gotta say, this is probably the best art direction I've seen so far. It looks like a fantasy [edited by Jack] would. And the locations are really nice. This is becoming a trend, actually: nice locations. People are listening to each other and that's really good.
Click to expand...
All honest praise. Even ENTHUSIASM.

Note the use of the word BEST to describe the art direction?
a guy who posts good criticism said:
As much as I love the art direction, cinematography I feel that the performances were a little to "heavy" for my tastes. It felt like they were pushing lines a little too hard, and it made it come off as forced. As well, as far as the story itself goes, the plot's there: guy's searchin' for [edited by Jack]. He's gotta get past [edited by Jack] and then the obstacles and in the end finds him. Got it. Somehow between the interior and then exterior scene, they don't mesh well. Like they're both excerpts from a longer movie and there's information missing. I know it's a short, what I think I might be trying to say is it's too big for the kiddie pool?
Click to expand...

Well thought out and presented without hyperbole or harsh adjectives.

a guy who posts good criticism said:
What Crane were you using? Have you seen any of [edited by Jack] work? We're always using a crane for everything, I see that's similar to what you've done here.
Click to expand...

A commiseratey tone speaking filmmaker to filmmaker who enjoys using similar technical element.

a guy who posts good criticism said:
Sometimes, though, the motion was jerky and really took me out of the shot. Did it have a pan and tilt head on it?
Click to expand...
Points out ONE technical difficulty. This is a filmmaking forum with its roots in technical aspects of filmmaking that is becoming more and more about the art of filmmaking. But this is something people would talk bout here. Probably not at Sundance, but here, yes.

a guy who posts good criticism said:
It's solid visually and has great cinematic moments. I think it may be too large for a short, however.
Click to expand...

Ends with summation of the broader positive moments and a broader evaluation of where he thought the story problems were.

This is not a nit picking review. It's straight forward and honest and a fine example of a review.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top