Stupid 24p questions

Chris Johnston

Chris Johnston

Veteran
I've always used this cam hooked up to a Newtek tricaster but now I'm gonna use it standalone and I'm testing the 24 p (scene file 5). I shot the tape using 24 p and edit with PPro CS2. Please help with my workflow.

If you shoot 24p, it writes to the tape with the pulldown so it's recorded at 29.97, right? Should I be editing in a 24p premiere project or a 29.97 project? Or can you do it either way?
 
you can do either.

if you shoot 24pa you need to edit on the 24p timeline, which is what I do.
However, you shooting 24p you can edit either or.
 
You can still edit 24pA on a 29.97 timeline; just not best to do so.

Videohog, it's recorded to tape with pulldown either with 24p or 24pA. It's just a different scheme.
 
zergtherobot said:
you can do either.

if you shoot 24pa you need to edit on the 24p timeline, which is what I do.
However, you shooting 24p you can edit either or.
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I heard (let em know if this is wrong) that you should only be using 24pa if you intend to shove it to film. (otherwise there's no benifit to it) Wrong?
 
Wrong. :)

It's about how you're going to edit.

If you're going to edit in 24p, shoot 24pA.

If you're going to edit as 60i (29.97), shoot 24p.

And you should edit in 24p unless you're mixing footage. It doesn't matter what your output is going to be.
 
Encore can handle a 24p MPEG export from Premiere. The appropriate pulldown flags are added to the file, telling the DVD player how to convert the 24p to the video standard of 30i. This has the advantage of encoding only 24 frames per second, rather than 30, so there is a measure of "space saving" here, potentially allowing higher bitrates for 24p than for 30i. Plus with fewer frames to transcode, it takes less time as well.
 
David Jimerson said:
Wrong. :)

It's about how you're going to edit.

If you're going to edit in 24p, shoot 24pA.

If you're going to edit as 60i (29.97), shoot 24p.

And you should edit in 24p unless you're mixing footage. It doesn't matter what your output is going to be.
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Thanks. Looks like I will be mixing with Aussie 25p footage so I just got lucky by shooting 24p.

I was looking around and found this

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/mvp_e/user/point/dvx100/24p24pa.htm

It's got preaty pictures in bright colors so its easy for me to understand ;-)
 
By "mixing footage," I meant with 60i or 30p; mixing 24p and 25p generally doesn't happen because you don't typically have both; you'll have 24p in NTSC land and 25p in PAL land and the twains rarely meet. You'd want to edit on a 60i timeline if you're mixing 24p with 60i or 30p, and for that, you want 24p standard.

The better bet with mixing 24p and 25p is to do it either on a 24p or 25p timeline, and for that, you'll want 24pA, because you'll want to remove the pulldown and edit the 24p frames natively. But, you're using CS2, so it doesn't matter; PP will still remove the 24p standard pulldown automatically and you can still edit natively. Choose a DV-24p timeline.
 
i just want to be clear about something. David (or anyone who knows) why do u recommend editing on 29.97 if ur shooting 24p standard? Can i edit 24p standard on a 24p timeline? Will the footage look any different if i edited it on 29.97 timeline or something.

i dont have my cam yet so i cant experiment but i'd like to know ... can u edit 30p on a 24p timeline? dont know why u would do that but i just would like if it can be done and how would it look.

and how would it look to put 60i footage on a 24p timeline (not for slowmo, normal speed)
 
jambredz said:
i just want to be clear about something. David (or anyone who knows) why do u recommend editing on 29.97 if ur shooting 24p standard?
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I don't, necessarily -- it depends on your NLE, really, and how much of a pain it makes it to edit 24p standard as 24p.

What I recommend is that if you're going to edit as 24p, then shoot as 24pA, because it will use less processing. But I'm not saying that if you shot 24p standard, you must edit as 29.97.

Can i edit 24p standard on a 24p timeline?
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Yes, though different NLEs handle it differently. The one which makes you go through hoops to do it -- you have to remove the pulldown manually, with Cinema Tools -- is FCP. The others do it automatically (Vegas, Edius, Premiere Pro), or (like Avid) are able to remove standard pulldown at capture.

Will the footage look any different if i edited it on 29.97 timeline or something.
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It won't look better if edited in a 29.97 timeline; in fact, if you have 24p material, you SHOULD edit it as 24p. But it'll look more or less the same.

You'd want to edit as 29.97 if you're mixing with 60i and want to keep the look of 60i (otherwise, convert the 60i to 24p and edit as 24p), or if you're mixing 24p and 30p, because they don't convert to each other well and they're both well-suited to a 29.97 timeline.

Editing 24pA on a 29.97 timeline isn't recommended not because you can't do it (it's on tape as 29.97), but because the way the frames are arranged, you may get a more pronounced, artificial strobe when there's a lot of motion. This is less of a problem with 24p standard because the frames are arranged for the smoothest possible motion.

This is also why you'd always want to use standard (2:3 or 3:2, same thing) pulldown if you're delivering in 29.97 for someone to watch.

can u edit 30p on a 24p timeline? dont know why u would do that but i just would like if it can be done and how would it look.
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Not really, not if you want it to look good, with one exception -- if you slow it down to 80% speed for a mild slo-mo. Otherwise, 30p does not convert well to 24p. You'll get terrible ghosting around moving objects, and probably annoying strobe. (Same if you convert 24p to 30p.)

and how would it look to put 60i footage on a 24p timeline (not for slowmo, normal speed)
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If you do that and render as 24p, it'll look like 24p, just with a resolution hit.
 
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