C200: Still no love from Adobe... (Premiere Pro 12.0.1 update)

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undero

Member
Adobe made Premiere Pro CC 12.0.1 update available yesterday. But still no Cinema RAW Light support... What's up with Adobe? The C200 camera and it's new format has been out since "for ever" now, and all the other major edit software players are already supporting it natively.

So what do you guys think, do we ever get this support from Ado*pee?
 
undero said:
Adobe made Premiere Pro CC 12.0.1 update available yesterday. But still no Cinema RAW Light support... What's up with Adobe? The C200 camera and it's new format has been out since "for ever" now, and all the other major edit software players are already supporting it natively.

So what do you guys think, do we ever get this support from Ado*pee?
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They're working on it. Check out this thread where an Adobe staff member responds saying:
"The support for Canon Cinema Raw Light will be added in a future release. I don't know the specific date yet!"

LINK: https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2378563

On page 3 they specifically address this release saying:
"Sadly, CRM support didn't make it to this release (12.0.1).

I'd expect it to come in the next release. I understand this is not the answer that you were looking for!

The Product Team is working on it."
 
Fahnon said:
They're working on it. Check out this thread where an Adobe staff member responds saying:
"The support for Canon Cinema Raw Light will be added in a future release. I don't know the specific date yet!"

LINK: https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2378563

On page 3 they specifically address this release saying:
"Sadly, CRM support didn't make it to this release (12.0.1).

I'd expect it to come in the next release. I understand this is not the answer that you were looking for!

The Product Team is working on it."
Click to expand...

Thx,

I have been monitoring that thread since last year. That same Adobe staff member Rameez said the exactly same thing (on page 1) when the previous update was public in October 23rd 2017. So I can't take that as a solid information anymore. Actually this Rameez has been saying more or less the same thing since September last year. "It's coming.. just don't know the exact date yet" etc.

Let's hope they get their stuff together at some point.
 
undero said:
Thx,

I have been monitoring that thread since last year. That same Adobe staff member Rameez said the exactly same thing (on page 1) when the previous update was public in October 23rd 2017. So I can't take that as a solid information anymore. Actually this Rameez has been saying more or less the same thing since September last year. "It's coming.. just don't know the exact date yet" etc.

Let's hope they get their stuff together at some point.
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Well I mean that's the answer. Not saying you, but I feel like a lot of people really came off as whiney and entitled on that thread. Maybe it's just because I had a BMCC at launch when ONLY Resolve (and ACR, but hardly ideal) supported the format, and you had to use proxies. Which the C200 is already ahead of with pretty much everyone but Adobe supporting it's brand new RAW format that is only used in one camera in it's lineup that's priced high enough that only pros will buy (when I put it like that, it's not surprising it's not a huge priority for them).

Shooting in RAW has historically always been more a more complex workflow than just offloading the card and getting to cutting.

I want PP support too, and it's coming later than I thought, but I wanted to suggest to those posting over there that we be adults about this...
 
Canon Raw Development is clunky but not by any means unusable. Native support is better but you can't use the excuse that PP doesn't support the C200 to not edit CRL.
 
Adobe's rep just said in the forum this:

"We who monitor forums are in support and can do nothing to address shortcomings or how you feel about the product. Please file a feature request so that the developers will hear your voice."
 
KrocanX said:
Adobe's rep just said in the forum this:

"We who monitor forums are in support and can do nothing to address shortcomings or how you feel about the product. Please file a feature request so that the developers will hear your voice."
Click to expand...

Yeah, the only way to get through to them is to file a feature request here: https://www.adobe.com/products/wishform.html

If everyone with a C200 does this, I bet they'll add native support fast.
 
Fahnon said:
Well I mean that's the answer. Not saying you, but I feel like a lot of people really came off as whiney and entitled on that thread. Maybe it's just because I had a BMCC at launch when ONLY Resolve (and ACR, but hardly ideal) supported the format, and you had to use proxies. Which the C200 is already ahead of with pretty much everyone but Adobe supporting it's brand new RAW format that is only used in one camera in it's lineup that's priced high enough that only pros will buy (when I put it like that, it's not surprising it's not a huge priority for them).

Shooting in RAW has historically always been more a more complex workflow than just offloading the card and getting to cutting.

I want PP support too, and it's coming later than I thought, but I wanted to suggest to those posting over there that we be adults about this...
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Sorry, my intention was not to sound whiney. The original meaning of my post was to inform dvxuser community about the latest situation. Sometimes it's just little hard not to make obscene jokes about Adobes name as I did, as the state that this company is now. I mean the whole forced subscription model and the way Adobe nowadays handles customers as actual beta testers of their products. My experience is that they now often if not always release bug filled versions of their products. And then just collect the information what's not working from user base bug reports. They always can just post a quick fix / patch via online. I guess it's good for their business numbers so we just need to bite it...? Or move to other software platforms. But then again this topic would be a whole different discussion on it's own.

The point that you made about C200 being a pro camera and thus Adobe not having huge rush to support it's "brand new" (well, almost half year now) format... Well after all the programs name is Adobe Premiere Pro. Maybe Adobe should change the name to "Premiere Prosumer"? Or even to "Premiere Consumer"? :laugh: Well at least most of the other major players on NLE business obviously saw the importance of supporting this format natively (Blackmagic, Avid, Apple).

About the RAW workflow, it's true that it has historically been more complex. But it's no reason why it should be so in the future, the computers that we professionals nowadays work on can handle realtime 2K, 4K and even 8K RAW data debayering at full or decent quality easily. I myself have been working with RAW video since RED One days, so I have had decent amount of managing proxy workflows and format conversions with my cuts. But native support is present time and even more the future on my opinion.

We are on the same boat, let's hope that native support will eventually come also to Premiere Pro.
 
puredrifting said:
Canon Raw Development is clunky but not by any means unusable. Native support is better but you can't use the excuse that PP doesn't support the C200 to not edit CRL.
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Yes I agree that Canons own software is little clunky, but still usable. That's my most used workflow for now on C200 files (convert to Prores4444 with cinegamma and clog-2 or -3 and move on from there). Actually my new Mac setup is churning these conversions more or less at realtime so conversion speed is not so huge factor anymore. On my old setup it took much much muuuch more time.

But still, native support in PP would be better also in my opinion.
 
undero said:
...But still, native support in PP would be better also in my opinion.
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Definitely, I agree, CRD is kind of a PITA to use and going from one piece of software to your editing software just holds things up. Adobe'll get there, it's just a matter of when. I can almost guarantee that every cinema camera from Canon forward will have CRL, other than the C100 MKIII or whatever lower level camera they come out with. I can tell you that Canon knows that they have something special putting an internal RAW codec in a $7,500.00 camera so it will spread to others in the lineup.
 
undero said:
Actually my new Mac setup is churning these conversions more or less at realtime so conversion speed is not so huge factor anymore. On my old setup it took much much muuuch more time.
Click to expand...

What's your new set up and what times are you seeing for raw conversion in CRD?
 
undero said:
Yes I agree that Canons own software is little clunky, but still usable. That's my most used workflow for now on C200 files (convert to Prores4444 with cinegamma and clog-2 or -3 and move on from there). Actually my new Mac setup is churning these conversions more or less at realtime so conversion speed is not so huge factor anymore. On my old setup it took much much muuuch more time.

But still, native support in PP would be better also in my opinion.
Click to expand...

The biggest problem with that workflow is that us Windows users can't convert C200 raw files to ProRes using Canon Raw Development. We HAVE to convert to DPX, which creates massive file sizes. This is the biggest issue keeping me from upgrading to a C200 right now.
 
Jaime Valles said:
The biggest problem with that workflow is that us Windows users can't convert C200 raw files to ProRes using Canon Raw Development. We HAVE to convert to DPX, which creates massive file sizes. This is the biggest issue keeping me from upgrading to a C200 right now.
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You bring up a good point. I've never tried the workflow on PC; can you not use Resolve to export mp4 or some other easy to edit with format, then relink when you're ready to grade?
 
fhammond said:
What's your new set up and what times are you seeing for raw conversion in CRD?
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It's iMac Pro 10-core, 64GB RAM and Radeon Vega64 16GB.

Conversion time for 600 frame CRM clip to Prores4444 Full quality DCI (no quick development and no proxy at the same time) is 21 seconds. So the conversion is happening at approx 28.5 frames / second.

This is with Cinema RAW Developer processor set to -> GPU, its actually using GPU and also maxing almost all of the CPU cores as well at the same time.

With processing set to -> CPU the conversion time for the same clip with same settings is 150 seconds (4 frames / sec), so considerably slower with that setting.

I get the same speed if converting straight from the Cfast card via USB3 card reader or if I copy the file to iMacPros SSD and convert from there. The same file from Lacie rugged usb3 hard drive is few seconds slower. So there is little penalty going that route. All the conversions are writing to my Promise pegasus RAID.
 
undero said:
It's iMac Pro 10-core, 64GB RAM and Radeon Vega64 16GB.

Conversion time for 600 frame CRM clip to Prores4444 Full quality DCI (no quick development and no proxy at the same time) is 21 seconds. So the conversion is happening at approx 28.5 frames / second.

This is with Cinema RAW Developer processor set to -> GPU, its actually using GPU and also maxing almost all of the CPU cores as well at the same time.

With processing set to -> CPU the conversion time for the same clip with same settings is 150 seconds (4 frames / sec), so considerably slower with that setting.

I get the same speed if converting straight from the Cfast card via USB3 card reader or if I copy the file to iMacPros SSD and convert from there. The same file from Lacie rugged usb3 hard drive is few seconds slower. So there is little penalty going that route. All the conversions are writing to my Promise pegasus RAID.
Click to expand...

If you don't mind me asking, why did you choose the 10 cote over the 8 core? I'm upgrading at the moment from a 2010 macpro just because the raw conversion is so damn slow, and I'm not sure if there's a benefit of going 10 vs 8.
 
undero said:
It's iMac Pro 10-core, 64GB RAM and Radeon Vega64 16GB.

Conversion time for 600 frame CRM clip to Prores4444 Full quality DCI (no quick development and no proxy at the same time) is 21 seconds. So the conversion is happening at approx 28.5 frames / second.

This is with Cinema RAW Developer processor set to -> GPU, its actually using GPU and also maxing almost all of the CPU cores as well at the same time.

With processing set to -> CPU the conversion time for the same clip with same settings is 150 seconds (4 frames / sec), so considerably slower with that setting.

I get the same speed if converting straight from the Cfast card via USB3 card reader or if I copy the file to iMacPros SSD and convert from there. The same file from Lacie rugged usb3 hard drive is few seconds slower. So there is little penalty going that route. All the conversions are writing to my Promise pegasus RAID.
Click to expand...

Interesting. It's not as fast as I'd hoped. If I'm doing the math correctly, it'd take your computer about 50 seconds to convert a 1 minute 23.98 clip to ProsRes 4444. My 2013 8 core Mac Pro takes about 1:13m. Hmm..that is about a 50% improvement in processing time, so I guess it's not bad. I look forward to all NLEs supporting raw natively and not having to use CRD at all!
 
Ruggerpro said:
If you don't mind me asking, why did you choose the 10 cote over the 8 core? I'm upgrading at the moment from a 2010 macpro just because the raw conversion is so damn slow, and I'm not sure if there's a benefit of going 10 vs 8.
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With 10-core I was going for the higher clock speed (at turbo boost) and overall better multi-thread CPU performance, and had the extra money more or less laying around. But as the conversion time calculations show, in CRD it's the GPU that's doing most of the heavy lifting. End of all I think the 8-core is also good and powerful option (and even higher single core performance), but spec up the GPU instead for the money spent on cores. I also see quite decent OpenCL performance in Premiere Pro from the Vega64 16GB. At least better than I was hoping for.
 
fhammond said:
Interesting. It's not as fast as I'd hoped. If I'm doing the math correctly, it'd take your computer about 50 seconds to convert a 1 minute 23.98 clip to ProsRes 4444. My 2013 8 core Mac Pro takes about 1:13m. Hmm..that is about a 50% improvement in processing time, so I guess it's not bad. I look forward to all NLEs supporting raw natively and not having to use CRD at all!
Click to expand...

Yes definitely not so huge improvement compared to your 2013 Mac Pro, probably substantial only in really long batch conversions. As we see it seems that CRD can use powerful OpenCL GPU quite effectively.

What GPU's you have on your Mac Pro, is it 2 x D700 Firepro?
 
Turbo boost is not that great like it looks like on a paper. Since only one core from all cores is turbo boosting and this frequency is more or less teoretical. Frequency depends on ability to cool processor. iMac has great cooling so I suppose it should be close but not exavtly there. Of course, this applies only if you are looking into single core performace.
 
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