Special Edition Titanic

[kimko]

I think he's trying to say that "Saving Private Ryan"'s plot had many historical inaccuracies (including Hanks being way too old for the role), but was still a very good movie (in response to the people saying Titanic was bad because the story arc was fictional).

As someone who's seen "Titanic" once and doesn't really wanna see it again, I don't agree that the event of Titanic sinking is interesting enough to carry a feature length narrative film. Events, especially big events, aren't very engaging. You have to put a human face to the event. Otherwise you are gonna have a tough time getting people on an emotional level. Wasn't it Stalin who said, "One death is a tragedy. One thousand deaths is a statistic." "60 Minute" typically does a good job of humanizing major events or stories by profiling 1 or 2 people affected and using their personal stories to tell the bigger story.

Even if JC took the time to look over the histories of every person on that ship looking for "the story" he could hang the movie on there's always gonna be creative license. There has to be. I love "Patton", and there's a lot in that movie that never happened. But it did a good capturing the "essence", for lack of a better term, of the man. And that's about the best we can hope for, IMO.


-A

you and callaghan said it best! thanks for deciphering spr( a darby's ranger story)i thought it was easy enough but there ya go.

 

[mmm]

"Someone Picasso..." although kind of silly is'nt a cliche.

Okay, maybe more corny than cliche - but VERY corny.

"All they needed was Will Smith in the cast - the A lister with the broadest appeal"

But they didn't need Will Smith! :beer:

Imagine the appeal if they had have worked him in :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, thinking about it, he doesn't perform well in peroid dramas. Cheeky black dude is his niche.

 

[Ought2bCommitted]

I agree that it has become "unhip" to admit to really liking certain films (like Titanic). Once again this observation is in no way directed at fellow DVXUser board members. The opposite is also true with other "sacred" films, which can never be desecrated by showing any distaste at all for them (ie 2001 & A clockwork Orange as previously discussed.) This is not, IMHO, a "macho" motive in calling love stories "fluff" or "teenybopper"...but rather a misplaced artistic one.

Well I said it before, and I'll say it again...I adore the love story in Titanic. In fact, I'll go so far as to say it would have suffered greatly without it.

One other thing...Obviously Pearl Harbor is no where near the film that Titanic is, but at what point did it become the new level of comparison for how shitty an epic drama is?? I own Pearl Harbor as well on DVD. I have many qualms with the film (namely the infamous "Bomb-Cam shot" - Ben Affleck's "off again" performance - the fact that the ending was changed for the Asian market - and many more). One thing I felt did work was the love story. I'm not sticking up for Bay...merely saying that Pearl Harbor ain't that bad.

There are far worse historical and period dramas than both PH and Titanic. My point was simply, both movies are hardly fitting tributes to the real tragedies that occurred. End of story for me.

Both love stories are tired cliches. Cameron isn't a great dramatic writer or director for that matter, imo. He's much better at staging action.

That's great that you adore the love story in Titanic. I don't. I think its crap that we've seen a million times over in better movies. THAT story didn't have to take place on the Titanic which is why its rather tired and annoying to find it in a movie called Titanic. Again, I see the point you were trying to make about making people invested, but I just don't agree with it. I think it lacks imagination to say that that is the only way you can get an audience to care about the human tragedy. And that goes for both PH and Titanic. Both are amazing moments of history and human pain and deserved farrrrrrr better treatment than "I'll never let go"....ok I let go.... and Ben Affleck sleeping through yet another movie.

I own both on DVD not because they're great movies, but because they are merely ok movies with some amazing visual sequences, and the PH trailer was the best produced trailer I've seen in ages. It was better than the entire film. It had a lot more impact, and hell...there was no love story. Just the visual facts of what happened that day. All you need.

-RC

 

[CallaghanFilms]

I am honestly not trying to beat this thing into the ground/kick a dead horse/insert your favorite cliche here. However, that scene that you referred to has been mentioned more than once in this thread. It is not with the intention of insulting anyone's intelligence that I now state the obvious:
When the character of Rose says, "I'll never let go", she is not being literal. She is telling herself that she'll never "let go" of his memory - that her heart will never "let go" of its love for him - that her soul, forever changed, shall never "let go" of what he did to change her very existence.

I understand all is subjective...but not liking the film simply because a "fictional" love story was inserted into a historical background is not unlike saying that Homer foolishly inserted that "teenybopper" love story of Helen into the historical fall of Troy.

 

[Ought2bCommitted]

So if its been referred to before, then it can't be mentioned again as bothersome? I didn't realzie those were the rules...

I never said I didn't merely dislike Titanic because a fictional love story had been placed into it. Please re-read my posts before you misquote me. I said I thought the love story was tired, cliched, and uninteresting. And yes, for me unneccessary when you have a rich historical plot to draw from.

That being said, had the love story not been so tired, ie: one that could have taken place ANYWHERE at ANY TIME, I probably wouldn't have minded it so much. The fact is, for me, the love story was tired, boring, and badly acted. Very badly acted.

Troy is a ridiculous reference becuase unless I am mistaken the whole point was about Helen in the first place. It couldn't have happened without Helen. Titanic would have and did happen without the lame love story.

And sorry to say, yes I "get" the "I'll never let go" MEANING...but come on... ridiculous writing. ROSE: I'll never let go, Jack. Rose lets go of Jack's hand as he sinks sweetly into the water. Roll tears now. Change the freaking line to "I'll never forget you". Bad writing. Sorry, but its lame. I get what the meaning is, but the line as it is is lame.

Its fine you like the movie, kudos to you. I don't. I think it deserved far better treatment than Jim Cameron is capable of. Yeah let him direct the big special effects moments, but leave the human aspect to someone who can actually pull it off without relying on cliches and cliched love story moments.

I'm not attacking you, but really there is nothing you can say to sway me. I don't want to sway. I'm glad you like the movie. Enjoy it. I think the Titanic deserved a better movie. One that didn't cater to 14 year old girls.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

Okay, maybe more corny than cliche - but VERY corny.



Imagine the appeal if they had have worked him in :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, thinking about it, he doesn't perform well in peroid dramas. Cheeky black dude is his niche.

As the Iceberg hits:

"Oh I know you just didn't hit my boat!"

 

[J.R. Hudson]

Everyone, let's not start getting tense. We're discussing Titanic. If you are going to get manic then cease participation.

So if its been referred to before, then it can't be mentioned again as bothersome? I didn't realzie those were the rules... .

No rules of course! Calm down now. I think it's one of those films that for some (me) that when you say you didn't like it, it's like "Huh? Are you high on something?" (It's a rare 11 OSCAR WINNER!) What was'nt to like? My sister-in-law didn't like Braveheart. Some films people don't like and the reasons seem to be an enigma. "The love story was tired" Huh? What does that mean? I guess the 'Insert Generic Thriller Story' would have worked better? Maybe putting Will Smith in it would have been a better idea after all.

"He's a cop escorting a fugitive back to America. But he picked the wrong ride...."

I never said I didn't merely dislike Titanic because a fictional love story had been placed into it. Please re-read my posts before you misquote me. I said I thought the love story was tired, cliched, and uninteresting. And yes, for me unneccessary when you have a rich historical plot to draw from..

"....but that 3 hours in between is just painful" "...and then you screw it up by adding a teenie bopper love story and some stupid diamond?" "Cameron failed on many levels..."

We're ust trying to get inside your head cause you have still failed to make us understand. You say it was full of cliches.... well then which ones? You say its tired..... well, compared to what?

You gotta back it up if you wanna debate it.

The historical event is not a PLOT in and of itself. The people are what makes it interesting. Take any dramatic event in history and it's the people that make us care. One day, they'll tell a story of the LA - CANE and it'll be the peoples stories that captivate us, not the event. The event is the item that can be replaced. Its the human drama that engages us.

Come on man, you know that. Thats like common rule number one in storytelling.

That being said, had the love story not been so tired, ie: one that could have taken place ANYWHERE at ANY TIME, I probably wouldn't have minded it so much. The fact is, for me, the love story was tired, boring, and badly acted. Very badly acted. .

The story was not badly acted. That's one part of this debate that'll I'll call 'Bullshit!' on. The entire cast did a fabulous job. No way.

Its fine you like the movie, kudos to you. I don't. I think it deserved far better treatment than Jim Cameron is capable of. Yeah let him direct the big special effects moments, but leave the human aspect to someone who can actually pull it off without relying on cliches and cliched love story moments.

No one is trying to sway you. Relax. I thought we were merely having a debate what worked and did not work on Titanic. You still have yet to offer up any fixes. You say 'The story was tired...'. Okay. well then what story would you have told? (for the umpteenth time).

That's all I want to know is:What would you have done?

 

[mmm]

As the Iceberg hits:

"Oh I know you just didn't hit my boat!"

...and he could hold a gun sideways and rap the theme tune instead of Dion. :laugh:

 

[J.R. Hudson]

Bwhahahahahahhah! Totally!

The video would have him singing and dancing in front of all the passnegers (who are doiung the same dance moves of course)

(Sung to the Getting Jiggy Wit it' Will Smith song

On your mark ready set let’s go
Dance floor pro I know you know
I go psycho when the iceberg hits
Just can’t sit
Gotta get Titanic wit it
Ooh that’s it
Now Rose come ride
Slum down in thrid class all up in my eye
You gotta blue diamond around your neck
Give it to your friend let’s spin - Ice berg, right ahead!
Ha ha
Big Iceberg is gonna hit
Gettin’ Titanic wit it

 

[Jeremy Ordan]

Bwhahahahahahhah! Totally!

The video would have him singing and dancing in front of all the passnegers (who are doiung the same dance moves of course)

(Sung to the Getting Jiggy Wit it' Will Smith song

On your mark ready set let’s go
Dance floor pro I know you know
I go psycho when the iceberg hits
Just can’t sit
Gotta get Titanic wit it
Ooh that’s it
Now Rose come ride
Slum down in thrid class all up in my eye
You gotta blue diamond around your neck
Give it to your friend let’s spin - Ice berg, right ahead!
Ha ha
Big Iceberg is gonna hit
Gettin’ Titanic wit it

And just when I was starting to think that Hudson had completely lost his mind in his attempt to convince the world of the merits of Titanic, he drops this one...

Brilliant stuff man, I hope that's straight out of your sci fi movie.

 

[CallaghanFilms]

"He's a cop escorting a fugitive back to America. But he picked the wrong ride...."

I can so hear that spoken by that one comedian with the "announcer voice".

And just think of the possibilities for the video. Picture Will Smith at the "below deck steerage party" dancing with the band "Gaelic Storm" in the background.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

I love the film. One of my favorites of all time. This All-time list encompassess everything from Star Wars, Jaws, Raiders, The Godfather, Braveheart, The Return of the Living Dead, The Thing.... Make sense?

When I hear 'It was okay; I liked it. Not the best ever...' I can dig that.

When I hear 'This film sucked, was stupid, failed......' I scratch my head and think 'huh?' I have ZERO issues with the story. If I told it and was forced to go into another direction, I would tell the story from the perspective of Charles Lightoller (2nd Officer) who was the last survivor to board the Carpathia or Harold Lowe (5th Officer) who was the only officer to return in the life-boats to look for survivors.

I spent 2 years in the USCG (and worked for the Port of San Diego for another 2) and love the whole martime atmosphere.

Off track..

 

[CallaghanFilms]

:thumbsup: Makes total sense, John...and I concur.

 

[Ought2bCommitted]

Movies like any other art form are purely subjective. Yeah, I don't like the story to Titanic. What story would I have told specifically John? Beats me right now since I didn't spend a ton of hours doing all the research. However, I would focus more on the facts, the real people that were there, etc. and not concoct a tired love story to take the foreground and all the real events to be practically ignored.

Some have said it would be almost boring to tell the tale the way history happened without some cliched love story, I disagree. Everyone knows the ship sank but how about how the people reall spend their last days, hours, etc. The movie could have been a lot shorter and a lot more interesting had it not had the silly love story.

Sorry man, I don't see it. I'm not upset, not getting excited...frankly, I really don't care. LOL. I thought the movie sucked and was a huge disappointment. I didn't buy into the hype for it. I loved the sinking shots and the underwater shots, but I hated and I mean hated the diamond and the love story angle. I thought it was silly and unneccessary. Cameron's best is action. Those are the strongest moments of the film, IMO. The rest is just tired. It feels like you've seen it a million times before in a million different...better movies.

MY whole point is simple with Cameron's Titanic... the story didn't have to take place on the ship. So for me, that's a fatal flaw. The movie is called Halloween. LIke having Friday the 13th take place on Thursday the 12th. Doesn't really work.

You don't have to wonder why or how I don't like it or wonder what story I would have told. Its really just simple... I thought Cameron's movie was lacking in story and I've said why. No one has to agree or not... its just my opinion. My subjective opinion. Dude I shook my head when you said Halle Berry was a Bond girl that could act. Different strokes for different folks. I'm really into history and I find the Titanic story fascinating. That said, I think there's a lot more story to tell. I didn't care about Jack or Rose. I was bored for two out of three hours. Cameron introduces all these historical figures and then says lets forget about them... here's two people I want you to care about. Jack and Rose. So care. I didn't! Sorry!

As I've said before, its cool for the people who like it to like it. I just don't. The historical story is more interesting to me than some hacked story about Jack and Rose.

So, the story I would tell? I'd tell the story of the real people who lived and died on that night. Not two ficticious cliched teens whom we've seen in dozens of better films.

That said... I'll never let go.

 

[Ought2bCommitted]

Everyone, let's not start getting tense. We're discussing Titanic. If you are going to get manic then cease participation.



No rules of course! Calm down now. I think it's one of those films that for some (me) that when you say you didn't like it, it's like "Huh? Are you high on something?" (It's a rare 11 OSCAR WINNER!) What was'nt to like? My sister-in-law didn't like Braveheart. Some films people don't like and the reasons seem to be an enigma. "The love story was tired" Huh? What does that mean? I guess the 'Insert Generic Thriller Story' would have worked better? Maybe putting Will Smith in it would have been a better idea after all.

"He's a cop escorting a fugitive back to America. But he picked the wrong ride...."



"....but that 3 hours in between is just painful" "...and then you screw it up by adding a teenie bopper love story and some stupid diamond?" "Cameron failed on many levels..."

We're ust trying to get inside your head cause you have still failed to make us understand. You say it was full of cliches.... well then which ones? You say its tired..... well, compared to what?

You gotta back it up if you wanna debate it.

The historical event is not a PLOT in and of itself. The people are what makes it interesting. Take any dramatic event in history and it's the people that make us care. One day, they'll tell a story of the LA - CANE and it'll be the peoples stories that captivate us, not the event. The event is the item that can be replaced. Its the human drama that engages us.

Come on man, you know that. Thats like common rule number one in storytelling.



The story was not badly acted. That's one part of this debate that'll I'll call 'Bullshit!' on. The entire cast did a fabulous job. No way.



No one is trying to sway you. Relax. I thought we were merely having a debate what worked and did not work on Titanic. You still have yet to offer up any fixes. You say 'The story was tired...'. Okay. well then what story would you have told? (for the umpteenth time).

That's all I want to know is:What would you have done?

Yeah John, you can't be serious to say Leonardo's performance was "solid". He was the weakest link in the film. Great supporting characters. The leads were iffy at best. Subjective, but you can't say other opinions are not valid. You think they were all solid doesn't make it so... to me. I found LDC to be stiff, and have generally flat odd deliveries of most of his lines. Hardly his best work.

Yeah, I find the love story tired and cliched... its hardly original and hardly anything we haven't seen before. For me, I found the writing for their scenes to be particually awfully. Come on, the whole "I'll never let go" line is cliche.

Historical dramas are a little different beasts than fiction, John and you should know that. In telling the story of what happened to the Titanic, that IS the story. It is a lot like a re-enactment. So why I say do you need to add a drop of boy meets girl, boy loses girl, etc. when hell they weren't even really there! Again, I found the whole Jack and Rose story to be the weakest part of the movie. I wanted to know more about the unsinkable Molly Brown, etc. That was just me though. I just didn't buy into the schmaltz of the love story.

There are stunning moments in Titanic but for me those moments generally involve the special effects and not the story of the doomed lovers.

To each their own, I say. I was disappointed with the resources Cameron had he told a cliched love story with an amazing back drop. I wanted more of the back drop. A lot more.

So I agree to disagree.

 

[mmm]

The thing that I didn't like in the film is how they fall in love that much, that quickly. I am sure that she would have got over him by the time she was a hundred! Would he still be the man that she meets in heaven? Did she not have a husband or anything? I don't know, just found it a weak demonstration of "love."

I think that is why I found the shot of the old couple on the bed with the water flooding in more upsetting. That shot said to me "these people really love each other and have decided to die together rather than scramble for life and risk being split up" - far more touching than the sweaty teen romance of Jack and Rose.

The Jack and Rose storyline was a clever way to unite the 1st and 3rd class. The old "impossible love" story is also an old trick, pretty cliche now - but sells tickets!

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Just finished rewatching this beast. I hadn't seen it since I caught it in theatres. Besides the old bluescreen techniques it holds up pretty well. I got all choked up and a little moist there towards the end.

It's funny cause I didn't think I'd ever watch this film again, but I was flipping channels and after five minutes I was hooked. I don't know if it deserves every oscar, but it's a damn good film.

 

[capitalP]

I can not believe this. Am I the only one on this board who didn't know Titanic was a re-make? WOW! I could of sworn this was an original movie. Not original in like a whole new story because obviously it's base on true events, but I mean there was another similar movie done in 1953 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046435/. I was just cruising Netflix just browsing and I don't know how it came up but I saw Titanic(1953) I said..."WHAT"? so I clicked and there it was, similar story to James Cameron.

I feel I should of known this, and because I didn't, I'm gonna go crawl somewhere for posing as a film enthusiast...

Did everyone on here knew this fact? I wouldn't feel as bad if I know I wasn't the only one. Was this stated in the opening credits, man how can I miss somethign like this.

Not taking anything away from Cameron because he's my favorite director, but it would be so much sweeter to have an original story be the Alltime Grossing Film... In my opinion ofcourse.

 

[KyleProhaska]

I think your idea that it's a remake of that film takes things a little far. The only part that's similar is the struggle of the woman, and your only talking about half of it...the rest is new.

 

[David Jimerson]

I can not believe this. Am I the only one on this board who didn't know Titanic was a re-make? WOW! I could of sworn this was an original movie. Not original in like a whole new story because obviously it's base on true events, but I mean there was another similar movie done in 1953 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046435/. I was just cruising Netflix just browsing and I don't know how it came up but I saw Titanic(1953) I said..."WHAT"? so I clicked and there it was, similar story to James Cameron.

I feel I should of known this, and because I didn't, I'm gonna go crawl somewhere for posing as a film enthusiast...

Did everyone on here knew this fact? I wouldn't feel as bad if I know I wasn't the only one. Was this stated in the opening credits, man how can I miss somethign like this.

Not taking anything away from Cameron because he's my favorite director, but it would be so much sweeter to have an original story be the Alltime Grossing Film... In my opinion ofcourse.

I've seen the '53 Titanic several times (along with others, like A Night to Remember and SOS Titanic); there are similarities which can't be avoided, but other than that, I don't know how you can conclude that Cameron's film is a remake.