There wasn't a story to be told. The boat sank. That's all I went for. And damn, was I satisfied.
Special Edition Titanic
- Thread starter J.R. Hudson
- Start date
Ought2bCommitted
Veteran
John_Hudson said:
Ok, here's what pisses me off. You have an amazing historical story to begin with and then you screw it up by adding a teenie bopper love story and some stupid diamond? Come on.
The story I would have told would have actually resembled the real story of the Titanic which is a hell of a lot more interesting than watching Leonardo wail I'm the king of the world...
Its like "Bridge on the River Kwai"... the REAL story is sooo much more compelling and moving than the schlock they told as a true story.
-Robert
kimko
Veteran
i enjoyed the teenybopper movie i was with a girlfriend who had a daughter and her friend 14 yrs old and the theater was filled with guess,it was fun and all the girls were crooning over Dicaprio. but me i would like more on the UNSINKABLE MOLLY BROWN (kathy bates) she was very interesting,her life that is, afterwards incredible remarkable womanJohn_Hudson said:
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Ought2bCommitted said:
But what story is that? What is that real story?
The boat was filled with rich people, poor people, immigrants from all nations, White Star personnell. Each with many different stories and sub-plots available. Surely there were tales of mistresses and divorces and murderers and entertainers and dreamers and the list goes on...
What story would have made it cool? What is that real story if not a simple love story? It wasn't about the diamond. That was merely a vessle to get the wheels turning:
1. Salvagers Look for riches aboard boat
2. Woman contacts Salvagers after seeing her personnel effects on a news story covering dives
3. Sit back and enjoy noe tale of Titanic
Well? What's the story you would rather of heard?
Ought2bCommitted
Veteran
Ummmm, John, the REAL story is the story of the people that were on the boat and lost their lives. Yeah, there were class differences on the boat, etc. but there was a huge array of people on the boat.
Cameron's Titanic wasn't about the diamond, but his movie could have taken place anywhere...it had little to do with the story of the Titanic. If you want me to do a **** load of research and compile a detailed rough draft for you, I will... but, I think telling the historical story of the boat was enough. The silly love story and diamond farce was unnecessary and just time consuming.
In the end, Cameron failed on many levels because he neglected the vast majority of people on the ship to focus on two archetypes to tell a love story so the sinking wasn't as dramatic as it could have been had you actually cared about anyone more than Jack and Rose (I didn't care...I wanted them to drown).
Titanic is a case where I think the truth is more interesting than Hollywood. The story of how all these people lost their lives is more interesting than any fluff added by a writer. Its like saying you couldn't tell the tragic story of 9-11 without having a juvenille love story as the vehicle. Come on. If thousands of people losing their lives on an "unsinkable" ship isn't story enough, I don't know what is.
-Robert
Cameron's Titanic wasn't about the diamond, but his movie could have taken place anywhere...it had little to do with the story of the Titanic. If you want me to do a **** load of research and compile a detailed rough draft for you, I will... but, I think telling the historical story of the boat was enough. The silly love story and diamond farce was unnecessary and just time consuming.
In the end, Cameron failed on many levels because he neglected the vast majority of people on the ship to focus on two archetypes to tell a love story so the sinking wasn't as dramatic as it could have been had you actually cared about anyone more than Jack and Rose (I didn't care...I wanted them to drown).
Titanic is a case where I think the truth is more interesting than Hollywood. The story of how all these people lost their lives is more interesting than any fluff added by a writer. Its like saying you couldn't tell the tragic story of 9-11 without having a juvenille love story as the vehicle. Come on. If thousands of people losing their lives on an "unsinkable" ship isn't story enough, I don't know what is.
-Robert
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
I'm only asking to spur conversation but also to get legitimate responses; I'm not coming at you O2BC.
I can't see telling the story of 1500 random people with no backstory being very compelling. The story of the sinking was in-fact told; probally better than anyone will ever tell it.
I think neglecting the majority to focus on a few can be more engaging than trying to tell everyones story. I'm not sure how anyone could care more for people if there was no backstory or emotional bonds. In fact; as much as I love Black Hawk Down for it's 'Manly Technical War' experience I don't terribly care when the G.I.'s are being killed; I never get to know any of them. So that's the risk with focusing on facts alone.
I read a book on Titanic and the entire book was 'fact fact fact fact'. I found it a forgettable read. It never really told me a story.
Seems the people that hated it always chalk it up to 'some love story' or 'teenie bopper love story' as you put it. But I always thought it deeper than that
1. Jack Dawson - A struggling artist wins a chance poker hand and a ride back to America after travelling through Europe and Paris
2. Rose Bukater - A young woman is oppressed at the height of Womans suffrage and expected to make Social and Emotional sacrifices under a controlling and desperate mother in an quasi arranged marriage of sorts. She is miserable. She is rebellious and dying to break free from these chains that society (high society!) and her desparate mother have around her.
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3. Cal Hockley - A Millinaire. A snob. A first class ass. He want's Rose more for his trophy and to be his wife servant of sorts. He also has recently bought a piece of the Hope Diamond which he tried bribing Rose's love with.
4. Ruth Bukater - This woman is desperate for Rose to marry into riches. They lost everything when her husband passed away and were left in a pile of debt. She controls and manipulates Rose. She doesnt want to be poor and 'worthless'
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The vessle in which we tell our story is
5. Brock Lovett - A salvager. Not at all interested in the history and artifacts of Titanic. He wants one thing. The diamond that was found on the ships registry claims.
6. Rose Dawson Calvert - An older, wiser Rose. She tells us the story. Her story about true love and how a few breif moments changed her forever, for better.
I respect your opinion (anyone who dislikes this film really) but can't readily agree to saying Cameron fails; a film that wins 11 Oscars (With a record tying number of nominations - fourteen) and sits as the ALL TIME HIGHEST GROSSING FILM EVER with $600,779,824 (Number 6 with Adjusted Totals). Still...
He must have failed somewhere with 44% on this board saying they HATED IT. Interesting enough the imdb.com has it rated at 7.0 after close to 100,000 Votes (This doesn't make the IMDB Top 250 Films) and AFI does'nt put it into their TOP 100 either.
This film is one of the ultimate Enigmas.
So; really though. What story would you have told? Would it have been the story of a passenger smuggling secret plans from Britain to America? Would it have been the story of a serial killer that is on Titanic and stalks the woman of the ship? Would it be that the Ice Berg was placed there by German spies and the whole event was sabotage?
I can't see telling the story of 1500 random people with no backstory being very compelling. The story of the sinking was in-fact told; probally better than anyone will ever tell it.
I think neglecting the majority to focus on a few can be more engaging than trying to tell everyones story. I'm not sure how anyone could care more for people if there was no backstory or emotional bonds. In fact; as much as I love Black Hawk Down for it's 'Manly Technical War' experience I don't terribly care when the G.I.'s are being killed; I never get to know any of them. So that's the risk with focusing on facts alone.
I read a book on Titanic and the entire book was 'fact fact fact fact'. I found it a forgettable read. It never really told me a story.
Seems the people that hated it always chalk it up to 'some love story' or 'teenie bopper love story' as you put it. But I always thought it deeper than that
1. Jack Dawson - A struggling artist wins a chance poker hand and a ride back to America after travelling through Europe and Paris
2. Rose Bukater - A young woman is oppressed at the height of Womans suffrage and expected to make Social and Emotional sacrifices under a controlling and desperate mother in an quasi arranged marriage of sorts. She is miserable. She is rebellious and dying to break free from these chains that society (high society!) and her desparate mother have around her.
-
3. Cal Hockley - A Millinaire. A snob. A first class ass. He want's Rose more for his trophy and to be his wife servant of sorts. He also has recently bought a piece of the Hope Diamond which he tried bribing Rose's love with.
4. Ruth Bukater - This woman is desperate for Rose to marry into riches. They lost everything when her husband passed away and were left in a pile of debt. She controls and manipulates Rose. She doesnt want to be poor and 'worthless'
-
-
The vessle in which we tell our story is
5. Brock Lovett - A salvager. Not at all interested in the history and artifacts of Titanic. He wants one thing. The diamond that was found on the ships registry claims.
6. Rose Dawson Calvert - An older, wiser Rose. She tells us the story. Her story about true love and how a few breif moments changed her forever, for better.
I respect your opinion (anyone who dislikes this film really) but can't readily agree to saying Cameron fails; a film that wins 11 Oscars (With a record tying number of nominations - fourteen) and sits as the ALL TIME HIGHEST GROSSING FILM EVER with $600,779,824 (Number 6 with Adjusted Totals). Still...
He must have failed somewhere with 44% on this board saying they HATED IT. Interesting enough the imdb.com has it rated at 7.0 after close to 100,000 Votes (This doesn't make the IMDB Top 250 Films) and AFI does'nt put it into their TOP 100 either.
This film is one of the ultimate Enigmas.
So; really though. What story would you have told? Would it have been the story of a passenger smuggling secret plans from Britain to America? Would it have been the story of a serial killer that is on Titanic and stalks the woman of the ship? Would it be that the Ice Berg was placed there by German spies and the whole event was sabotage?
Jeremy Ordan
Major Contributor
Hudson,
I'm one of the people who polled in as: Hate this film, simply because of an option reduction. Titanic is a good film. It does have a story that keeps you interested and watching, and the sinking scene is one of the most dramatic water events ever. That being said, I saw the movie in the theatre. I was then subjected to this film by every girl I dated for the last five years. For me personally, I don't hate the film, but I have no desire to own it or buy the new version.
I think the reason you are getting the response you are is because of a reduced number of options in the poll itself. Personally, I find it hard to believe that people did not enjoy this movie the first time through. Hell, you got that chick saying, 'I'll never let go' and then she lets go a second later. That's classic in itself!
I'm one of the people who polled in as: Hate this film, simply because of an option reduction. Titanic is a good film. It does have a story that keeps you interested and watching, and the sinking scene is one of the most dramatic water events ever. That being said, I saw the movie in the theatre. I was then subjected to this film by every girl I dated for the last five years. For me personally, I don't hate the film, but I have no desire to own it or buy the new version.
I think the reason you are getting the response you are is because of a reduced number of options in the poll itself. Personally, I find it hard to believe that people did not enjoy this movie the first time through. Hell, you got that chick saying, 'I'll never let go' and then she lets go a second later. That's classic in itself!
Ought2bCommitted
Veteran
TheYankee said:
Yankee, THAT was classic. I nearly died in the theatre when I saw it. I was like, HELLO? YOU JUST LET GO!!!!
All the crying girls hushed me.
-Robert
I think the lesson of Titanic is that we should be making films for women. I remember talking to girls that saw the film over ten times while it was in theatres. Call it hysteria, call it a great film, it made a boatload of money.
I remember that happening when I saw it. Some guy laughed when she let go and was chewed out. And I have never seen so many tears at a movie theatre either. I almost drowned. :evil:
Ought2bCommitted said:
I remember that happening when I saw it. Some guy laughed when she let go and was chewed out. And I have never seen so many tears at a movie theatre either. I almost drowned. :evil:
-->"it made a boatload of money"John_Hudson said:
I actually find the most emotional part of the film the shot of the two old people lying on the bed as water floods into their room. I believe this is the first time that they appear on the screen, but it nearly brought a tear the first time I saw it. I was glad when Jack died and was pissed off that Rose didn't - I found them both annoying and unrealistic caricatures. :evil:
GenJerDan
Veteran
John is right.
The thing is...the story of the Titantic is just that a boat sunk.
You *could* do a film about the just Titantic itself, everything from the designer to the sinking, concentrating on thebusiness politics and all that. Might not be boring. Who knows.
But, other wise, you really should just use it as backdrop, do the human-interest thing like the film was. Or do Molly. Or do a bunch of little stories about different people. Lots of ways to go.
As it was done, it didn't interest me overmuch. Didn't bore me, but...it was just...yeah, ok, sappy love story with no surprises. Nice, but I'm living one nicer. (So far, neither one of us has drowned.)
The thing is...the story of the Titantic is just that a boat sunk.
You *could* do a film about the just Titantic itself, everything from the designer to the sinking, concentrating on thebusiness politics and all that. Might not be boring. Who knows.
But, other wise, you really should just use it as backdrop, do the human-interest thing like the film was. Or do Molly. Or do a bunch of little stories about different people. Lots of ways to go.
As it was done, it didn't interest me overmuch. Didn't bore me, but...it was just...yeah, ok, sappy love story with no surprises. Nice, but I'm living one nicer. (So far, neither one of us has drowned.)
XCheck
Veteran
I successfully avoided Titanic for about a year after its release. Then my kids brought it home from Bluckbusters - and I regretted I didn't go see it on the big screen.
I really HATED the buzz (I am an anti-mass hysteria kinda guy). But I absolutely loved the movie. Oh yeah, and I cried. Call me a sissy.
I really HATED the buzz (I am an anti-mass hysteria kinda guy). But I absolutely loved the movie. Oh yeah, and I cried. Call me a sissy.
XCheck said:
You sissy. :laugh::thumbsup:
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Speaking of the GF
It wasn;t until I was an adult (Late 20's) that I totally 'Got' the Godfather (Part 2 is my favorite). Incredible film.
It wasn;t until I was an adult (Late 20's) that I totally 'Got' the Godfather (Part 2 is my favorite). Incredible film.
spidey
Shogun Assassin
do yuou think it should sit where it does though john i mean thats a alot of movie for a film that was competeing with the cbs and nbc verion of titanic around that same time on tv. i forgot their titles but probably had titanic in it. I just think it got more money that it should have.
capitalP
Veteran
I've heard some people say it's the best love story of all time, hell no, it's a good movie, good, not great. As far as love story goes Ghost beats that hands down, so no I won't buy the special DVD, I'll wait till it comes on AMC, then maybe I'll watch it... I love James Cameron, but Titanic was not his best film, don't let the Record breaking numbers fool you all, that movie broke records because of all the chicks and Leonardo Dicaprio fanatics lined up in the theaters.. not cause it was a great movie.