Sound Recording

New_Zealand

New_Zealand

Veteran
I have tried the Beachteck with the Canon 5d mkIII but get a low hiss sound. Recording into the camera isn't the best choices but sometimes if you are the lone shooter it is your only option. What are others using for recording sound? There seems to be a lot more options out there now vs a few years back.

I have also been thinking about getting a separate sound recording and just do it the old way (Film Days) and sync it during editing. Any thoughts out there?
 
Well, by definition - any good "front end" set of mic pre-amps - be it a mixer like a beachtek or Sound Devices, or be it a recorder like the Tascam DR-60 or 70 - will give you about as good as you're going to get IF you send the loudest possible signal into the 5D and set its input record levels as low as possible. This will push the 5D's own noise floor to it's lowest.
Now if you're getting a really noticeable hiss then there is the possibility that something in your connection between the two devices is not right.

1. - is the hiss when using the beachtek LOUDER than the hiss you get just using the 5D's onboard mic?
2. - Can you run the Beacktek into some other recording device, like a ZOOM or a Tascam, or even into a pro-audio computer interface on somebody's DAW to find out just exactly how much hiss the Beachtek is generating already on its own?
 
New_Zealand said:
I have tried the Beachteck with the Canon 5d mkIII but get a low hiss sound. Recording into the camera isn't the best choices but sometimes if you are the lone shooter it is your only option. What are others using for recording sound? There seems to be a lot more options out there now vs a few years back.

I have also been thinking about getting a separate sound recording and just do it the old way (Film Days) and sync it during editing. Any thoughts out there?
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You're never going to get very good sound from a DSLR. That's just not what DSLRs are about. Far better to get something like a Tascam DR-70D and mount the camera to it to make a single unit. Not much worse that just the DSLR itself, but with an order of magnitude better sound. Just have your subject give you a big clap before you begin, and use that clap to sync with. Piece o' pie.
 
I disagree that recording into the camera is ever your only option. There are a lot of small audio recorders that you can clip to your belt or mount onto your rig (if convenient). I used to shoot weddings with an audio recorder an wireless receiver clipped to my belt, linked to my headphones. The camera stayed separate, and I had a lot of versatility. It's worth it even without the improvement in sound quality.
 
All the above recommendations are correct.
The best is to record into a small recorder like the Tascam DR-70D, DR-60D or even DR-40 and in editing take the sound from the separate recorder.
In the NLE use the sound recorded in the camera only for syncing with the separate sound track. If you edit with Adobe Premiere Pro, for instance, syncing video with embedded audio track to additional, separate, audio track is done very well.
If you cannot manage having additional sound track, then feed the audio from the recorder into the camera, with the lowest possible audio recording gain in the camera. Yet, separate sound track and syncing in editing is far better.
As for being one-man-band: you can mount any of the above mentioned small recorders to the camera, or clip it to your belt.
For my DSLR (7D II) I ordered a cage, to which external microphone and/or wireless lavalier receiver, sound recorder and video recorder-monitor (Atomos Ninja Blade) will be attached.
 
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Thanks everybody for your feed-backs.

I think the Beachteck has some issues to the systems and is why I'm getting a hiss sound.

I did do a mic hook up (Sennheiser) straight to the camera and that didn't sound too bad but of course not the best.

If I'm understanding this right I can get the Trascam DR-70D and have someone attach it to their belt and walk freely with the Sennheiser mic to record the audio of the talents instead of having them attach to me? I remember years ago (90's) I was shooting a short film (35mm) and there was a sound guy on set for us using a Data recorder (I think that is what he called it) to record the audio. so the Transcam DR-70D is used the same way?

The camera I have been using before the 5d mkiii was the HVX200A. We attach the mic to the camera and actually had good sound recorded from the talents.
 
New_Zealand said:
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If I'm understanding this right I can get the Trascam DR-70D and have someone attach it to their belt and walk freely with the Sennheiser mic to record the audio of the talents instead of having them attach to me?
…
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Yes, that's possible.
 
Pretty much all DSLR and Mirrorless cameras have weak mic pre-amps that are prone to noise when audio gain is applied. To get the least noisy recording from these cameras you have to set their internal mic pre-amps to their lowest setting and then feed your camera a fairly strong audio signal. Depending on your camera this audio signal is in the range of -40 to -10 dB.

Setting the internal mic input level on my GH4 to the -12 dB setting and feeding the camera a -40 dB signal, I can get about 70 dB of dynamic range when recording audio in LPCM format. Properly recorded this can produce audio that sounds pretty much "noise-free" to my ears. ( just don't expect to apply much gain in post and retain this low-noise sound quality )

I've also read that Magic Lantern has some useful audio settings for Canon cameras that can help to reduce the noise-floor of the audio that the 5D Mk3 records, so you might want to investigate this too.

...Also, the Tascam DR-70D has a 3.5mm MIC OUT flaw that adds 20 dB of noise to it's output, but this can be cured using a Sescom cable with a built-in 25 dB pad. ( the DR-70D can output 75 dB of clean dynamic range when used with a Sescom cable, or 55 dB without the cable )
 
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I use a zoom h5 straight into my 6d. Sounds awesome. Put the 6d on manual as low as it'll go and adjust the settings on the h5 so you're getting a strong signal. I really can't complain how good it sounds.
 
Bruce Watson said:
You're never going to get very good sound from a DSLR. That's just not what DSLRs are about. Far better to get something like a Tascam DR-70D and mount the camera to it to make a single unit. Not much worse that just the DSLR itself, but with an order of magnitude better sound. Just have your subject give you a big clap before you begin, and use that clap to sync with. Piece o' pie.
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This has become "common wisdom" around here, but I've consistently found with some cameras (the D7100 for example) if you stage your gain correctly it can be great.

Depends on the camera, but I use the DR60D and feed a line out to the Nikon, and make sure all my levels are good (not necessarily "the lowest the DSLR will go", but get most of the gain from the mic pre (and you're amplifying again through the line out as it has its own gain control) and then the DSLR input levels.

I do this to get clean synch sound on the footage without room delay, but again and again, I don't bother using the DR60D tracks - the Nikon sounds fine. And I can be a picky bastard - most of my dialogue tracks go into protools (my usual chain is a noise gate and reverb remover if necessary, NR if necessary for things like constant HVAC noise, but always a Massey CT5 comp and one of the vintage EQ plugins, to cut the lows and give some tube-sparkle to the highs - and sometimes a touch of exciter. Those sparkly highs really give a sense of intimacy).

Still, this gives you a wire from the recorder to the camera which can be a hassle in movement scenarios. But there's no reason to skip a recorder on a one-man shoot; you'll spend more time placing mics than dealing with the recorder. If it's a handheld shoot, get the recorder on your belt or something. But in every instance I can think of, movement of camera/subject so extreme to make the recorder a hassle means you need a boom op or a wireless anyway, so your recorder is either with the op or stationary (wireless). On a tripod, the DR mounts easily for me on the back of the rails with a 90° crossbar.

rig3.jpg
 
There is almost always benefit to be had by placing a high quality pre-amp/mixer in front of a recorder (whether it's a DSLR, FS7, Red, zoom recorder, etc.) When I shoot DSLR I often mount a Mix Pre-D underneath and calibrate my levels on the DSLR so that my Mix Pre-D clips right before the DSLR pre's clip. I get a very clean signal with excellent limiters and very tactile pots. At that point the DSLR just becomes a recorder and the pre-amps are hardly relevant.
 
I'll join in and say the internal recording on a DSLR is a perfectly viable option for many shoots as long as you have a decent preamp in front. My tests with the mix pre d and Canon DSLR found perfectly decent sound for voices. There did seem to be a noticeable loss in low end so I wouldn't use it for music. In fact, I would take a mix pre d and DSLR over a Zoom H4n. Thankfully, I am seeing less of those around these days, but that thing had some really bad preamps and recording issues.
 
Michael Carter said:
This has become "common wisdom" around here...
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It has. Perhaps because so many of us have found DSLR audio wanting. Perhaps it's because even the manufacturers of the DSLRs admit they put all their R&D into the sensors, optics, displays, and body of the camera chasing the value point where image quality, camera size, features, and price meet. Notice that audio isn't part of that equation. We're lucky they decided that they could get a marketing advantage out of video. Without that, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Why they thought the visual part of the package would be sufficient without the audio is just beyond me. But there it is.

That said, I acknowledge that some people like yourself find this to not be true, that you can get perfectly acceptable audio from your DSLRs. Good on ya; I wish it worked for me. Either way, everyone should use the tools with which they are most comfortable, so they can forget the tools and put their efforts into their art. The art is the point of this whole exercise, yes?
 
StrobelPhotography said:
I use a zoom h5 straight into my 6d. Sounds awesome. Put the 6d on manual as low as it'll go and adjust the settings on the h5 so you're getting a strong signal. I really can't complain how good it sounds.
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Same here just with the H6..... Dont see an issue. More times than not I end up plugging the Sennheiser G3 straight into the Canon 5D3 with the camera sound all the way down to something like 3-4 steps from left. The settings on the microport to match.
 
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