Sony selling camera(s) that overheat?

GREEN_RANGER

GREEN_RANGER

Active member
Just saw newsshooters interview with a sony rep regarding the a7sii - https://vimeo.com/138980315 (at around 3:25 in), which i have been eagerly awaiting all year, where the rep stated that he thinks the camera may have the same overheating issues as the a7rii when recording in 4k, which I'm guessing is due to the build being similar in many ways. I can understand a company making one camera that has an overheating issue, but then soon releasing another camera with potentially the same issue of the same build without addressing it is mind boggling to me. I may be getting ahead of myself here as the cameras not out yet, but when a sony rep practically confirms my fears, it doesn't look promising. I've also read that insufficient cooling isn't good for the longevity of the cameras sensor as well. Just wondering how its possible to sell cameras like this, and what the conditions are around warranty if the cameras functionality isn't acceptable? Or are they getting around this by marketing it as "these are the limitations buy it if you're ok with them?" Im a big fan of Sony's, but I'm confused about how they've gone about this!
 
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That Sony rep didn't sound like he really knew what he was talking about though. Like he pretty much just was reciting things he read in some memo and sounded like he had never even used the camera himself.
My guess is that since it has fewer pixels to deal with, it will run at least better than the A7RII.
But also remember that when Sony said that they didn't include 4K in the original A7S people gave them all sorts of grief and saying that they should have included it anyway etc. Now Sony has done that and now people are complaining about that ;)
 
Im definitely hoping that sony rep is wrong on this one. *fingers crossed* Yeah, i hear you, Im glad Sony listened and put internal 4k recording in, but just do it in a way thats not going to have people guessing if their cameras going to come through for them on location or not.
 
He was also asked two questions at that same time, and he answered the first one but didn't specifically address the 2nd one (which was the one referring to the heat). With no followup or clarification on the part of News shooter, I'd say it was a pretty poor interview. But the rep did sound like he'd been fed the answers to typical questions rather than really knowing the camera first hand in saying things like "I think I'm ready for this one" etc. We'll see I guess.
 
Ahh.. the old double darrelled question.. kinda hehe.. you guys are actually making me feel optimistic about this!! Cant wait for this camera to come out already so we can get to the bottom of it all. Was kinda hoping those rumours were true that it might have a similar body to the canon xc10, as that may have improved/fixed the issue. This form factor with the a7sii features would have made for a great stills/video camera.. theres always the next round i suppose lol :S
 
I believe the a7S II will overheat when recording 4K internally just as the a7R II does. The source of the overheating can be the sensor or the processor. On the a7R II it's the processor: it overheats when recording 4K internally, but doesn't if you record it externally (thanks to Emanuel for pointing this to me). Unless the problem happens only when the processor has to both to downsample and encode at the same time, the a7S II will have the same problem.

I'm perfectly fine with this. I hardly ever shoot a take of more than 90 seconds. YMMV.
 
The max record time is 30 mins anyway (if it makes it that far)

The only concession is that it is doing less onboard to record, so it may be cooler.

But there are physics at play here, if you need to run continually then buy a larger camera which can deal with the heat, the FS5 would be perfect. Sony aren't selling this as a camcorder.

The form factor is a tiny stills camera, with a full frame sensor that a few years ago would be unheard of *and* it's got IBIS and 4K Recording. It's a specialist camera, not a generic camcorder and there will be limitations. You can't hold it underwater, you can't strap it to to the outside of a F22 (g forces), you can't shoot in the middle of a fire, you can't run continuously. If you need to do any of the latter then this isn't the camera you're looking for...

cheers
Paul
 
The RX100 mk IV is reported to have overheating issues as well.

4K is really taxing their processors. That's a shame. I hope they can work it out.
 
Could the overheating be related to IBIS? One could assume that a floating/move-able sensor wouldn't have as good of a contact to a rear-mounted heat sink than a fixed position sensor could. Unless that's not how it works.

Have people with a7Rii tested with IBIS disabled in 4k? Or maybe that wouldn't matter because just because the sensor isn't moving, doesn't mean the thermal transfer between it and the heat sink becomes more solid.
 
From what I understand, on the a7R II you get no overheating when recording 4K externally. If that's the case, it's not the sensor, and it's not the IBIS.
 
Samuel H said:
I believe the a7S II will overheat when recording 4K internally just as the a7R II does. The source of the overheating can be the sensor or the processor. On the a7R II it's the processor: it overheats when recording 4K internally, but doesn't if you record it externally (thanks to Emanuel for pointing this to me). Unless the problem happens only when the processor has to both to downsample and encode at the same time, the a7S II will have the same problem.
Click to expand...
But wouldn't the A7SII have a bit less processing to do, with 30mp less to get rid of?
 
Yes. But the a7R II doesn't overheat when it has to do the downsampling but not the encoding. Maybe it's the combination of having to do both at the same time that causes the overheating, and if that's the case the a7S II could record longer without having heat issues, but it's more likely that the encoding takes too much work and it's what's causing the overheating on its own. We'll know soon enough.
 
dmitrizigany - I'm hoping so!! :D

paulcurtis - hehe, i hear what your saying and Im aware that sony aren't selling this specialist camera as a camcorder, or a generic one at that, and am definitely aware and grateful/excited for the new features they have brought to the table. But if they are selling any camera with a feature such as internal 4k recording, which cameras such as the panasonic gh4 can do well without such issues from what I'm told, then id expect that feature from them, unless they are selling it as a limited 4k recorder. They're not stating that the camera has underwater/fireproof features, or that it can withstand a certain amount of g-forces if strapped to something, But if they were selling these as features like 4k recording any buyer would expect it from them. And when it gets to the point when buyers like some of the ones that bought the a7rii for the photo and video capabilities are expecting a fix from sony for this, something is definitely wrong as they were not aware of this limitation before purchase. I think there has been a fine line for a while where an issue has simply been labeled as a pitfall or a limitation. But if these things have not been clearly stated in the initial sales pitch, which so far it hasn't been made clear, where these limitations are discovered after purchase, then the buyer is not getting what they paid for, especially if the limitation, in this case, the heating issue can potentially reduce the overall life of the hardware/investment. Despite my big rant, I'm hoping that all of this talk is for nothing and that the heating issue isn't there, but either way, manufacturers have a duty of care to test for such predictable/noticeable issues and inform the customer in advance prior to them purchasing their product. Not sell the product and hope that most buyers will accept these issues as they mainly got the camera for one of the other features, and fix whatever can be fixed via firmware update down the track, and release a revised version with the hardware fixes that the customer would have to again purchase in the next round.
 
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I suppose most cameras overheat at some point...my little nex camera overheated too without 4k. Don't remember any other camera overheating but i don't shoot events etc so only shoot short pieces sometimes in rapid succession.

In europe it'll be cold for many months so it won't overheat that easy loool

You can't expect a camera to be perfect.....could you have imagined that these cameras would become available a few years back/?
 
aras said:
I suppose most cameras overheat at some point...
Click to expand...
My T2i and NEX-5N both had overheating issues, but I've tried to make my a7S overheat while recording internal 1080p and haven't being able to make it stop recording or shut down.
 
I'm soooooo tired of seeing these types of posts, year after year, for 10 years now.
Please read this, memorize it and share it world wide.
ALL THESE DLM's & DSLR's are PUBLIC BETA products.
You are supposed to buy the hobbled cameras so as to subsidize the PRO LINE of cameras.
Stop buying them and then the manufactures will improve the "Soccer Mom" cams.
 
DPStewart said:
The RX100 mk IV is reported to have overheating issues as well.
Click to expand...

It overheats for me in any high bitrate mode. 1080 60P, 1080 120, plus 4K of course. I have gotten from 6 mins with a hard shutdown with no warning in 4K, to 12 minutes in 1080 60P.

AFAIK, the only Sony camera that can shoot 4K internally without overheating is the RX10II. Plus the AX100 and AX33. I looked at the AX100, but the RX100IV/RX10II sensor is much nicer - the AX is a bit dated by comparison.

+++

I shoot stills and video. I bought the RX100IV primarily as a stills camera. Then 1 month later I was asked to shoot video for a group for the next year, and I decided to go 4k for ease of editing- stabilizing, small pans and zooms. I shoot events that average 1.5 hours+.

So I did a test shoot. The Panasonic FZ1000 (that I bought as a supplement for wildlife stills work) ran for 1 hour 20 minutes, to the end of the event, in internal 4k. It was locked down on a tripod in the hot sun on an 88 F degree and ran with no with no problem. The RX quit after 6 minutes in 4k mode.

i needed 2, 4k cameras to supplement the 2 DSLRs that I use at the same events. I didn't want two RX10II, and I couldn't find an interchangeable lens Sony that could shoot internal 4k. So I looked at external recording for 4k, but I really couldn't justify the $1,500-$2,090 incremental cost and complexity. So I decided to go with Panasonic, and sell my Sony kit. That was after 6-7 years of using Sony alongside Nikon and Canon. Four different systems was driving me crazy! After I added Panasonic! ;)

This is always a quandary for us stills shooters. I have $3,000+ invested in 2 Panasonic cameras now. Plus $6,000+ invested in a Nikon D750, 70-200 2.8 II, and D5300 with a 1750 2.8 that I use at the same events. I shoot a lot of events in low light and use the 2.8 zooms wide open, and I need cameras with decent high ISO like the D750.

Plus I still have my larger Canon lens kit for the Panasonic. The Canon lenses are somewhat better for adapting, being all electronic. There is also auto focus available now on the Kipon and Metabones Speedbooster adapters for Canon.

Someday soon on we may get to one camera system that can do it all for us. Or even just one lens system that we can adapt to everything with high performance! The folks that only shoot video seem to have it a bit easier.

Cheers!
 
Real hybrid

Real hybrid

RED.


unadog said:
It overheats for me in any high bitrate mode. 1080 60P, 1080 120, plus 4K of course. I have gotten from 6 mins with a hard shutdown with no warning in 4K, to 12 minutes in 1080 60P.

AFAIK, the only Sony camera that can shoot 4K internally without overheating is the RX10II. Plus the AX100 and AX33. I looked at the AX100, but the RX100IV/RX10II sensor is much nicer - the AX is a bit dated by comparison.

+++

I shoot stills and video. I bought the RX100IV primarily as a stills camera. Then 1 month later I was asked to shoot video for a group for the next year, and I decided to go 4k for ease of editing- stabilizing, small pans and zooms. I shoot events that average 1.5 hours+.

So I did a test shoot. The Panasonic FZ1000 (that I bought as a supplement for wildlife stills work) ran for 1 hour 20 minutes, to the end of the event, in internal 4k. It was locked down on a tripod in the hot sun on an 88 F degree and ran with no with no problem. The RX quit after 6 minutes in 4k mode.

i needed 2, 4k cameras to supplement the 2 DSLRs that I use at the same events. I didn't want two RX10II, and I couldn't find an interchangeable lens Sony that could shoot internal 4k. So I looked at external recording for 4k, but I really couldn't justify the $1,500-$2,090 incremental cost and complexity. So I decided to go with Panasonic, and sell my Sony kit. That was after 6-7 years of using Sony alongside Nikon and Canon. Four different systems was driving me crazy! After I added Panasonic! ;)

This is always a quandary for us stills shooters. I have $3,000+ invested in 2 Panasonic cameras now. Plus $6,000+ invested in a Nikon D750, 70-200 2.8 II, and D5300 with a 1750 2.8 that I use at the same events. I shoot a lot of events in low light and use the 2.8 zooms wide open, and I need cameras with decent high ISO like the D750.

Plus I still have my larger Canon lens kit for the Panasonic. The Canon lenses are somewhat better for adapting, being all electronic. There is also auto focus available now on the Kipon and Metabones Speedbooster adapters for Canon.

Someday soon on we may get to one camera system that can do it all for us. Or even just one lens system that we can adapt to everything with high performance! The folks that only shoot video seem to have it a bit easier.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
 
unadog said:
Someday soon on we may get to one camera system that can do it all for us...
Click to expand...

RX-10III. Newer chips run much cooler for the same power output. Even the new Xperia smartphone doesn't overheat - it gets warm but not hot - while shooting 4K. Plus, there are some new sensor technologies that Sony is likely to implement in models coming out a year to two years from now. I can see a 28-35 MPX 1" RGBW sensor that can shoot 4K from an oversampled 17.6-26.4 MPX center crop, with SLog3, 13'ish stops, HEVC @ 100 Mbps.

And, if not Sony, someone else will do it.
 
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