FS7: Sony rumored to release new FS7

Ben Scott said:
EDIT: Reading this back it sound confrontational which isn't my intention, but I genuinely want to know what you referred to because having used the A7s extensively there was very much a time and a place for them - and that time was 'whenever the FS7 was already in use'.
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For me its three times:

Gimbal use
Moonlight shoot (or inside caves etc.)
Timelapse/starlapse when i need FS7 somewhere else.

Only times i use a7S as video.
 
Ah yes... Lightweight gimbal shots I totally get it and it is a perfect camera for this, especially if twinned with something like a Batis lens. Agree completely, although if you have a gimbal that can take it an FS7 with easy rig is even better :)

Timelapse, yes fine, but that's not video and having used about 8-10 cameras for paid timelapse gigs of varying sizes over the years, an A7sII isn't the ideal timelapse camera either in my opinion.

Extreme low light is a thing it can do, but I still was not comfortable using the camera at much over 10,000ISO and even then it would be noisy as hell and made into mush by noise reduction.
 
Mr Sony, you're going to have to work hard if you're going to get me to upgrade my FS7, here's what might convince me.

14 stops of DR with super clean blacks at 500 iso or 16 stops of DR at 2000 iso. I don't need to see in the dark.

12 bit XAVC480 at all frame rates. Or a new high bitrate compression scheme that eliminates the blocking of flat tones. Personally I'm not interested in RAW so a decent SLog4/Sgamut3.cine at 12 bit and high data rate will be fine. Some 256 GB XQDs too!

Full UHD @120 fps 150 if possible and >60 fps record sound too!

Better filtering of artefacts in S&G.

Very slow shutter for time lapses.

Enough internal ND to put a fast lens on a bright day.

White Balance in CineEI. In fact ditch Custom and CineEI modes and take the best from both and combine into an über Mode.

It's a given that this camera will have crappy menus, crap accessories and take 18 months of firmware updates to fully realise the potential of the camera but for £6.5k + VAT what more do you want?

I'm happy to wait.
 
I will buy this camera after firmware 4.3 comes out that stops the camera from switching into super slow shutter speeds when you white balance in Cine Ei.

Nirv said:
Mr Sony, you're going to have to work hard if you're going to get me to upgrade my FS7, here's what might convince me.

14 stops of DR with super clean blacks at 500 iso or 16 stops of DR at 2000 iso. I don't need to see in the dark.

12 bit XAVC480 at all frame rates. Or a new high bitrate compression scheme that eliminates the blocking of flat tones. Personally I'm not interested in RAW so a decent SLog4/Sgamut3.cine at 12 bit and high data rate will be fine. Some 256 GB XQDs too!

Full UHD @120 fps 150 if possible and >60 fps record sound too!

Better filtering of artefacts in S&G.

Very slow shutter for time lapses.

Enough internal ND to put a fast lens on a bright day.

White Balance in CineEI. In fact ditch Custom and CineEI modes and take the best from both and combine into an über Mode.

It's a given that this camera will have crappy menus, crap accessories and take 18 months of firmware updates to fully realise the potential of the camera but for £6.5k + VAT what more do you want?

I'm happy to wait.
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Ben Scott said:
Timelapse, yes fine, but that's not video and having used about 8-10 cameras for paid timelapse gigs of varying sizes over the years, an A7sII isn't the ideal timelapse camera either in my opinion.
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Which cameras of the ones you have used stood out as good for timelapse photography?
 
Ben Scott said:
Extreme low light is a thing it can do, but I still was not comfortable using the camera at much over 10,000ISO and even then it would be noisy as hell and made into mush by noise reduction.
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Yeah, but what else is there?

I just shot inside a dimly lit cave business that serves food and hold concerts deep inside the mountain, in an old marble quarry. I shot at 80.000 ISO. Yes, its noisy, but i got shots that have never been shot inside there before. My clients get a wow factor, and that pays for the whole a7S.
 
Based upon what Sony seems to be doing with the FS5, I would tend to think some sort of paid upgrade for the FS7 might be in the works for V5 or V6... what that might be, other than the talked about XOCN etc... won't even venture to guess
 
Andrew Stone said:
Which cameras of the ones you have used stood out as good for timelapse photography?
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Of the Sonys, the A7rII, being 42MP is a lot better.

Older APSC Canons with magic Lantern's internal intervalometer, 5D MK3 and 5DSr are great and tend to slot into most motion slider remote setups a lot easier.


I even used an old 600D the other day and it gave just as good results
 
Martin.G said:
Yeah, but what else is there?

I just shot inside a dimly lit cave business that serves food and hold concerts deep inside the mountain, in an old marble quarry. I shot at 80.000 ISO. Yes, its noisy, but i got shots that have never been shot inside there before. My clients get a wow factor, and that pays for the whole a7S.
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Care to share any screenshots or clips? Brilliant that you make it work for you but personally I never got anything over 12,800 that I would/could consider using for anything over a couple of years of using the AS7 mk1 and mk2.

Even so, that is still a crazy little niche party trick. How did you record the concert audio?
 
Mitch Gross said:
If Sony were building an FS7mk2, it probably wouldn't be doing so in order to get current FS7 owners to switch over. Instead, it would be doing it to convince owners of competing cameras to switch over.
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Absolutely.One assumes just a couple of tweaks rather than wholesale upgrades
 
BarryLichtner said:
That might be going a little far, calling the a7sII and a6500 so incompetent next to the FS7 that, "it's not even funny." I can think of a lot of situations where I'd rather have an a7sII with a fast prime than a large kitted out FS7. I've also seen video out of both those cameras that the FS7 simply isn't capable of creating (though they are both limited overall compared to the FS7 in their implementation). Nevertheless, the sensors in the a7sII and a6500 are both significantly more advanced than the FS7's. The fact that Sony limits their output to 8-bit with a lesser codec is part of what keeps their true video capability untapped. The a6500 can shoot over 300 24mp pictures at 11fps as is, so if it were tuned for an FS7 level camera, it could produce some incredible images.

I don't think the new 24mp sensor will end up in the FS7 II based on everyone'S input (it better not anyway, haha), but a version of it could be a great option for Sony's next big leap. I can see it working in the F5/55 replacement because it could offer both 4K and 6K recording. And I think ~24.7mp is the minimum needed to derive a true RGB 4K signal-- which definitely sounds like an F5/55 feature. If the F5/55 successor can record both 6K and 4K from its sensor, and the "FS8" is capable of "only" supersampled 4K, that could be one effective way to segment the models. Who knows.

I'd love to hear more details about the FS7 II announcement...
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i think the A7RII and SII are great as are the 6000 series....but 8 bit is 8 bit....and sometimes they are the best tool for the job or the only one...no problem...but for me the IQ of the FS7 is just on a different level....which is why i am so excited about the idea of a FS7update...just like the A7RII is an incredible all around still camera, the FS7 is an incredible all around motion camera, even 2 years later....
and btw....the A series is getting major upgrades soon as well....remains to be seen if they will have internal 10bit...
which would be the perfect reason to come out with an improved FS7 first.....
 
Ben Scott said:
Such as? Which things outside of image quality does an A7SII or A6500 do better than an FS7? Battery life/frame rates/codecs/audio recording all belong to the FS7 too as well, no?



If you're shooting undercover or something and need a tiny camera why is the FS7 even on your radar?

If it's purely the cost issue that is irrelevant to this particular thread.

EDIT: Reading this back it sound confrontational which isn't my intention, but I genuinely want to know what you referred to because having used the A7s extensively there was very much a time and a place for them - and that time was 'whenever the FS7 was already in use'.
Click to expand...

Ronin
 
Paul schefz said:
i think the A7RII and SII are great as are the 6000 series....but 8 bit is 8 bit....and sometimes they are the best tool for the job or the only one...no problem...but for me the IQ of the FS7 is just on a different level....which is why i am so excited about the idea of a FS7update...just like the A7RII is an incredible all around still camera, the FS7 is an incredible all around motion camera, even 2 years later....
and btw....the A series is getting major upgrades soon as well....remains to be seen if they will have internal 10bit...
which would be the perfect reason to come out with an improved FS7 first.....
Click to expand...

A small gimbal cam that outputs an FS7 like image in 10 bits 4K onto XQD would have me reaching for the credit card. It would be very welcome but I think Sony see the A cams as 8 bit E mount, the FS cams as 10 bit E Mount and F cams as 10 bit Broadcast and that's how they'll segment the market. I'd love to be wrong.

How much would Sony charge for a 10bit A7S cam? Probably not that much less than the FS5 and the FS5 has the advantage of being a real video camera too. Sony are winning the Photo/Video crossover already so they're only competing with themselves so it depends how brave they want to be and how much of the FS cam business they don't mind cannibalising.
 
As a head on competitor to the A7S, the GH5 could force also Sony to come up with 10bit in cameras like the A7s or the 6500 unit.

But I do not see a huge demand for a new version of the FS7. Sure there is always room for some improvement, but does it matter really? I will wait what happens, and I think that I will continue to use my existing FS7. But we will see.
 
I don't know how much experience you have with Blackmagic, but the new Micro camera is very small, has 60p, and it's picture can be made to quite easily match most cameras out there. On big productions they keep using them as crash cams to splice in with Alexa and RED footage. Because memory is a lot cheaper (and bigger) now, you can afford to shoot in 12-bit raw all the time (if you want to) - and the raw footage you get (so long as you exposed it to the right properly), is incredible. That ease of raw workflow and the stunning malleable results you get is the number one thing I miss about using my Blackmagic cams as my primary shooters.
 
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