And still people make those unprofessional shots with all cameras starting from the venerable DVX100. I've seen thousands of shots where they are taken from waist height and it looks horrible. But it doesn't have anything to do with the FS-100 as those shots have been taken from all kinds off cameras.
Sony NEX-FS100 with Super 35mm CMOS image sensor
- Thread starter rawfa
- Start date
And still people make those unprofessional shots with all cameras starting from the venerable DVX100. I've seen thousands of shots where they are taken from waist height and it looks horrible. But it doesn't have anything to do with the FS-100 as those shots have been taken from all kinds off cameras.
Nigel-Cooper
Member
I agree maarek. I was not talking specifically about the FS100, just being generic with waist shots from any camera; like you said.
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
Although there may be aesthetic reasons for placing a camera at waist level when taking a portrait, that is not the reason the cameras you mentioned had a "waist level" viewfinder. The earliest versions of those cameras did not have a prism finder and the ground glass used in focusing the image had to be placed at a right angle to the lens.
Oh God, I hope the LCD image on the FS-100 isn't laterally reversed! lol
jackal2513
Active member
The aesthetic advantages in certain situations are, as you say, by products of the wlv but NOT the actual reason for its existence or implementation.
I suspect the historical reason for not having a pentaprism was more to do with cost and weight saving than anything else.
Sony NEX-FS100 Camera Test
Sony NEX-FS100 Camera Test
Just a simple test.
Yesterday in the late afternoon, I got an overnight loan of the yet to release Sony NEX-FS100 video camera. With about 1-2 hours of daylight left, I quickly drove to a nearby place and put the camera to test.
It was at the end of a long day of work fixing some Avid issues and I initially thought I was just going for a demonstration, so I didn't bring along any support equipment. But I remember watching Den & James's video blog of the camera and how they had shot one of the scenes of "Vertigo" music video without permission.
So I tried to go "stealth" and walked around a local old tourist street with the barebones FS100 (removing mic, handle and eyepiece) to see how unobtrusive I can get. I am using the E18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Zoom kit lens.
Settings
--------
There is no user manual and the camera went through several hands, so I am not 100% sure what are the defaults. But I believe I am testing the camera under default settings. There are 6 picture profiles and I chose the 5th - Cinematone 1 which is visibly darker on the camera's LCD screen but brighter than Cinematone 2. But this being a cinema camera, I felt most people would want to use the cinematone profile and so I tested with it.
The gain settings are set to 0db (low), 15db (mid) and 30db (high). It is configurable at an interval of 3db from 0 to 30. I don't know if this is the default but I didn't change it since it is also good to test the entire range.
It is a PAL unit and should be the final production unit (but I am not able to confirm at this point).
- 1080p25 24Mbps Cinematone 1
- Edited in Premiere Pro CS4 with no grading
- Encoded in WMV Average 8Mbps, Max 10Mbps.
I did a Mainconcepts H.264 encoding at similar bitrates as well but I thought the WMV version is better in some ways. Note: Some artifacts are due to the WMV encoding.
Built quality
-------------
The built feels similar to EX1 and like all cameras of this range, better handle it with more care. All plastics but like
most Sony products, they don't feel cheaply constructed. Buttons are of course not as big and well-spaced as shoulder mounts, but I don't feel they are that different from other cameras of this price range.
There are mounting holes in many places and you can actually mount the camera at its side on a tripod to do a vertical shoot (for vertical mount displays).
Unobtrusive?
---------------
I can wrap my two palms and fingers around the main unit, leaving the lens exposed. The size feels like placing two DSLR bodies back to back, if you get what I mean. In fact, the internal battery compartment takes up a lot of space (maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of the main unit). You can insert a NP-F970 inside without protruding out. Due to the position of the LCD screen at the top, I do find myself often shooting at below the eye level.
So am I really unobtrusive? Not exactly, but I feel I am not much different from a DSLR shooter.
Apologies for the shaky footage, I am quite tired at the end of a workday and the camera is not that light. I am also holding the camera in a unfamiliar manner (try visualize holding a barebones FS100 with your hands).
Lens
------
Equipped with the same F3 super 35mm CMOS sensor (I was told), I feel the kit lens is really not making use of the sensor's superb capability.
- Looks unprofessional with the silver plastics (personal opinion)
- Focus ring is at the back and zoom ring on the front, which is contrary to all professional video lens. I kept making the mistake of zooming when I want to adjust focusing.
- Focus ring is smaller than the zoom ring and I have to turn a very big round to go from full blur to sharp.
- Not quite easy to get shallow depth of field with slow F3.5 - F6.3 (and no ND filter)
- Forget about smooth zoom. Difficult, if not impossible? Too much friction.
- Infinite focus ring. I always prefer a finite ring..
- Silent focusing/autofocus. Good.
- No noticeable barrel distortion at wide/telephoto ends.
- No noticeable chromatic aberration.
- Okay performance. I heard it's the same lens as the consumer interchangeable lens camera.
Note: There is a small iris ring on the main camera unit.
LCD Display
--------------
I can view the LCD reasonably well in daylight and it's rotatable. Sharp LCD screen like the EX1.
The nice thing is that you can press and navigate on the LCD screen directly. But it leaves too much fingerprint for me and I prefer not to touch that screen.
The small histogram can be permanently left on which is very useful. There is only one level of zebra. The peaking can be set to white, yellow or red with different strengths.
I have an issue with the expanded focus just like Canon XF305's. I prefer Panny's solution which only shows an expanded focus in the middle. With a full screen expanded focus, I often forget to turn it off as it looks not much different from the regular screen.
Image quality
---------------
Low light and low noise is definitely its selling point. Definitely better than AF100 in this regard. I also tested AF100 briefly before with some noticeable noise.
15db gain is surprisingly very usable although I feel 30db is reserved for documentary use with its noticeable noise. A better lens will definitely do wonders for this camera. The absence of a ND filter wheel is also an issue but it can be overcome with a mattebox.
Although not shown in the footage, I did some quick panning of the camera and and I can hardly see any rolling shutter effect. If you look at 02:10, the fan in the shop does not suffer from any rolling shutter effect.
Miscellaneous
---------------
Battery life is excellent. I shot with the LCD display on at normal brightness. I don't know if there is a power saving feature but it's almost always on throughout my 1-2 hours of shoot and the NP-F770 battery only dropped about 30%.
By the way, the loan package box comes with a NP-F770 battery and a Sony Shotgun Microphone. I am not sure if the actual package contents would be similar.
Conclusion
------------
Pros:
- Excellent sensor with good low light capability and low noise
- Excellent battery life
- 1080p50 at 28Mbps
- Both HD and SD
- Modular (very configurable)
- Barebones is reasonably unobtrusive
- 15db gain clean and very usable
Cons:
- Consumerish kit lens
- No ND filter wheel (others have suggested it's impossible to build it in due to form factor)
- Not NTSC/PAL switchable
Sony NEX-FS100 Camera Test
Just a simple test.
Yesterday in the late afternoon, I got an overnight loan of the yet to release Sony NEX-FS100 video camera. With about 1-2 hours of daylight left, I quickly drove to a nearby place and put the camera to test.
It was at the end of a long day of work fixing some Avid issues and I initially thought I was just going for a demonstration, so I didn't bring along any support equipment. But I remember watching Den & James's video blog of the camera and how they had shot one of the scenes of "Vertigo" music video without permission.
So I tried to go "stealth" and walked around a local old tourist street with the barebones FS100 (removing mic, handle and eyepiece) to see how unobtrusive I can get. I am using the E18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Zoom kit lens.
Settings
--------
There is no user manual and the camera went through several hands, so I am not 100% sure what are the defaults. But I believe I am testing the camera under default settings. There are 6 picture profiles and I chose the 5th - Cinematone 1 which is visibly darker on the camera's LCD screen but brighter than Cinematone 2. But this being a cinema camera, I felt most people would want to use the cinematone profile and so I tested with it.
The gain settings are set to 0db (low), 15db (mid) and 30db (high). It is configurable at an interval of 3db from 0 to 30. I don't know if this is the default but I didn't change it since it is also good to test the entire range.
It is a PAL unit and should be the final production unit (but I am not able to confirm at this point).
- 1080p25 24Mbps Cinematone 1
- Edited in Premiere Pro CS4 with no grading
- Encoded in WMV Average 8Mbps, Max 10Mbps.
I did a Mainconcepts H.264 encoding at similar bitrates as well but I thought the WMV version is better in some ways. Note: Some artifacts are due to the WMV encoding.
Built quality
-------------
The built feels similar to EX1 and like all cameras of this range, better handle it with more care. All plastics but like
most Sony products, they don't feel cheaply constructed. Buttons are of course not as big and well-spaced as shoulder mounts, but I don't feel they are that different from other cameras of this price range.
There are mounting holes in many places and you can actually mount the camera at its side on a tripod to do a vertical shoot (for vertical mount displays).
Unobtrusive?
---------------
I can wrap my two palms and fingers around the main unit, leaving the lens exposed. The size feels like placing two DSLR bodies back to back, if you get what I mean. In fact, the internal battery compartment takes up a lot of space (maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of the main unit). You can insert a NP-F970 inside without protruding out. Due to the position of the LCD screen at the top, I do find myself often shooting at below the eye level.
So am I really unobtrusive? Not exactly, but I feel I am not much different from a DSLR shooter.
Apologies for the shaky footage, I am quite tired at the end of a workday and the camera is not that light. I am also holding the camera in a unfamiliar manner (try visualize holding a barebones FS100 with your hands).
Lens
------
Equipped with the same F3 super 35mm CMOS sensor (I was told), I feel the kit lens is really not making use of the sensor's superb capability.
- Looks unprofessional with the silver plastics (personal opinion)
- Focus ring is at the back and zoom ring on the front, which is contrary to all professional video lens. I kept making the mistake of zooming when I want to adjust focusing.
- Focus ring is smaller than the zoom ring and I have to turn a very big round to go from full blur to sharp.
- Not quite easy to get shallow depth of field with slow F3.5 - F6.3 (and no ND filter)
- Forget about smooth zoom. Difficult, if not impossible? Too much friction.
- Infinite focus ring. I always prefer a finite ring..
- Silent focusing/autofocus. Good.
- No noticeable barrel distortion at wide/telephoto ends.
- No noticeable chromatic aberration.
- Okay performance. I heard it's the same lens as the consumer interchangeable lens camera.
Note: There is a small iris ring on the main camera unit.
LCD Display
--------------
I can view the LCD reasonably well in daylight and it's rotatable. Sharp LCD screen like the EX1.
The nice thing is that you can press and navigate on the LCD screen directly. But it leaves too much fingerprint for me and I prefer not to touch that screen.
The small histogram can be permanently left on which is very useful. There is only one level of zebra. The peaking can be set to white, yellow or red with different strengths.
I have an issue with the expanded focus just like Canon XF305's. I prefer Panny's solution which only shows an expanded focus in the middle. With a full screen expanded focus, I often forget to turn it off as it looks not much different from the regular screen.
Image quality
---------------
Low light and low noise is definitely its selling point. Definitely better than AF100 in this regard. I also tested AF100 briefly before with some noticeable noise.
15db gain is surprisingly very usable although I feel 30db is reserved for documentary use with its noticeable noise. A better lens will definitely do wonders for this camera. The absence of a ND filter wheel is also an issue but it can be overcome with a mattebox.
Although not shown in the footage, I did some quick panning of the camera and and I can hardly see any rolling shutter effect. If you look at 02:10, the fan in the shop does not suffer from any rolling shutter effect.
Miscellaneous
---------------
Battery life is excellent. I shot with the LCD display on at normal brightness. I don't know if there is a power saving feature but it's almost always on throughout my 1-2 hours of shoot and the NP-F770 battery only dropped about 30%.
By the way, the loan package box comes with a NP-F770 battery and a Sony Shotgun Microphone. I am not sure if the actual package contents would be similar.
Conclusion
------------
Pros:
- Excellent sensor with good low light capability and low noise
- Excellent battery life
- 1080p50 at 28Mbps
- Both HD and SD
- Modular (very configurable)
- Barebones is reasonably unobtrusive
- 15db gain clean and very usable
Cons:
- Consumerish kit lens
- No ND filter wheel (others have suggested it's impossible to build it in due to form factor)
- Not NTSC/PAL switchable
Last edited:
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
tengo,
First, thank you SO much for sharing. I really enjoyed looking at what you shot.
I had a couple questions
1) I watched your footage and didn't see any aliasing that jumped out at me, could you post some screen grabs of what really concerned you. I've looked at the charts from the F3 so I know it can have some colored aliasing as well, however, even Nigel Coopers review said the aliasing results were better to him in the FS100 than the AF100. This is one of my important criteria.
2) Is there any mic in the body? If you are not using the attached mic?
3) What does that gain button do on the side?
First, thank you SO much for sharing. I really enjoyed looking at what you shot.
I had a couple questions
1) I watched your footage and didn't see any aliasing that jumped out at me, could you post some screen grabs of what really concerned you. I've looked at the charts from the F3 so I know it can have some colored aliasing as well, however, even Nigel Coopers review said the aliasing results were better to him in the FS100 than the AF100. This is one of my important criteria.
2) Is there any mic in the body? If you are not using the attached mic?
3) What does that gain button do on the side?
Matt Harris
Veteran
Tengo I'm glad you shot that handheld, the rolling shutter looks obvious to me. Not pleasing to my eyes. Do you agree?
Hi Rick,
1) Download the full HD WMV from vimeo to see the aliasing, especially at 02:10. I made it downloadable. I could well be on a wrong sharpness setting? It was too rush for me to check the settings properly. Basically I grab the camera and quickly drove to the location and started shooting. I did run through all the menus once and believe everything to be default. Another thing could be that the aliasing is no worse than other cameras. So I think we want to be careful to say that there is noticeable aliasing but we can't be sure if there is more aliasing unless we do a side-by-side comparison.
2) Good question. I forgot to check. But I don't think there is an internal mic. I didn't record sound for this video.
3) Good question again. I didn't try it. Sorry I can't help. You will find out soon when Sony release the camera.
UPDATE: Aliasing was found to be a post issue. Video has been re-encoded.
1) Download the full HD WMV from vimeo to see the aliasing, especially at 02:10. I made it downloadable. I could well be on a wrong sharpness setting? It was too rush for me to check the settings properly. Basically I grab the camera and quickly drove to the location and started shooting. I did run through all the menus once and believe everything to be default. Another thing could be that the aliasing is no worse than other cameras. So I think we want to be careful to say that there is noticeable aliasing but we can't be sure if there is more aliasing unless we do a side-by-side comparison.
2) Good question. I forgot to check. But I don't think there is an internal mic. I didn't record sound for this video.
3) Good question again. I didn't try it. Sorry I can't help. You will find out soon when Sony release the camera.
UPDATE: Aliasing was found to be a post issue. Video has been re-encoded.
Last edited:
Hi Rick,
1) Try download the full HD WMV from vimeo to see the aliasing, especially at 02:10. I made it downloadable. I could well be on a wrong sharpness setting? It was too rush for me to check the settings properly. Basically I grabbed the camera and quickly drove to the location and started shooting. I did run through all the menus once and everything seems to be default. Another thing could be that the aliasing is no worse than other cameras. So I think we want to be careful to say that there is noticeable aliasing but we can't be sure if there is more aliasing unless we do a side-by-side comparison.
2) Good question. I forgot to check. But I don't think there is an internal mic. I didn't record sound for this video.
3) Good question again. I didn't try it. Sorry I can't help. You will find out soon when Sony release the camera.
rogar-Happy(DBG):
UPDATE: Aliasing was found to be a post issue. Video has been re-encoded.
1) Try download the full HD WMV from vimeo to see the aliasing, especially at 02:10. I made it downloadable. I could well be on a wrong sharpness setting? It was too rush for me to check the settings properly. Basically I grabbed the camera and quickly drove to the location and started shooting. I did run through all the menus once and everything seems to be default. Another thing could be that the aliasing is no worse than other cameras. So I think we want to be careful to say that there is noticeable aliasing but we can't be sure if there is more aliasing unless we do a side-by-side comparison.
2) Good question. I forgot to check. But I don't think there is an internal mic. I didn't record sound for this video.
3) Good question again. I didn't try it. Sorry I can't help. You will find out soon when Sony release the camera.
rogar-Happy(DBG):UPDATE: Aliasing was found to be a post issue. Video has been re-encoded.
Last edited:
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
I never understood why there is no camera with detachable display. Would be so nice if you just could take it of and mount it to an noga arm.
Frank
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
I'd say the Red Epic basically does this. Even more, it uses touch screen technology as well! 
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
I don't see any rolling shutter problems to my eyes. All the shakes of the camera look solid in the picture. If I can get my hands on one at some point, I will test it, because I have an easy method that is very accurate (within 3% I believe).
Now that I downloaded the footage and have looked closely, yes, I see LOTS of aliasing, although I barely detect any chroma to it like the charts had suggested. What I am really confused about now is Nigel's comments that the aliasing was better than the AF100. I'd say this is not the case with this sample. I wonder if these were two different cameras and something is different on the preproduction units? I would NOT be satisfied with those aliasing results. The blinds and the wicker chair were really bad.
Now that I downloaded the footage and have looked closely, yes, I see LOTS of aliasing, although I barely detect any chroma to it like the charts had suggested. What I am really confused about now is Nigel's comments that the aliasing was better than the AF100. I'd say this is not the case with this sample. I wonder if these were two different cameras and something is different on the preproduction units? I would NOT be satisfied with those aliasing results. The blinds and the wicker chair were really bad.
miko meloni
Active member
Thanks for your video tengo,
just one question:
the stabilization was off? Did you try it?
just one question:
the stabilization was off? Did you try it?
Stabilization is on. User problem 
I don't think it's any worse than other cameras. The manner of holding a barebones FS100 is a bit strange, if you can visualize. With the proper handle and eyepiece attached, you get another stabilization point (your eyes to the eyepiece) and better handholding with the proper handle.
If you watch the full HD version, there are some relatively steadier shots which I either lean against a car or wall or press the camera unit towards my belly.
I don't think it's any worse than other cameras. The manner of holding a barebones FS100 is a bit strange, if you can visualize. With the proper handle and eyepiece attached, you get another stabilization point (your eyes to the eyepiece) and better handholding with the proper handle.
If you watch the full HD version, there are some relatively steadier shots which I either lean against a car or wall or press the camera unit towards my belly.
John Caballero
Veteran
Sorry, but there are no rolling shutter issues at all on that footage. Just some camera handshake.
Last edited:
HKO
Well-known member
Ahh - I can see the aliasing. Must say that puts a dampener on things for me and curbs my excitement somewhat. I thought this was the cam for me as I felt it was a baby F3 because it has the same sensor. Just goes to show that it's the whole pipeline that matters. I sure hope that the final production version is not that bad with aliasing. If the aliasing remains then how different is this camera to the NEXVG10? I mean it also has uncompressed HDMI. Okay admittedly 8 bit. It has no ND filters and less control with manual settings but the FS100 for £ 3000 more doesn't add that much more value does it? Nicer sensor sure but the image does not seem to be a slightly dumbed down F3. It appears to be a slightly souped up NEXVG10. I dunno if that makes any sense to anyone. When I first saw the F3 I was just wowed by the image - still am. The clarity and especially the colour science has won me over. I hoped the FS100 would give me maybe 80 % of that. All the samples I have seen do not convince me that it is the same family as an F3. Makes sense - NEX is prosumer. Don't get me wrong - it isn't a bad image - but it doesn't smash my GH2 out the park either. Be damned Sony - you keep pushing me toward the F3..or the wait continues for THAT cam that lets me stop chasing moores law.....hopefully soon.
Basically uncompressed 1080p 10 bit output, no alisaing or moire, low contrast setting for grading, good dynamic range, interchangebale lenses and manual everything. Don't really care about much else. As it is still early days ,if the final version or this camera provides all that ( because it is oh so close to what I hope for ) then I am back in. But if this is production quality.......I better start saving for the big boy. Peace
Basically uncompressed 1080p 10 bit output, no alisaing or moire, low contrast setting for grading, good dynamic range, interchangebale lenses and manual everything. Don't really care about much else. As it is still early days ,if the final version or this camera provides all that ( because it is oh so close to what I hope for ) then I am back in. But if this is production quality.......I better start saving for the big boy. Peace
Last edited:
That aliasing is unacceptable at the $5k level. I hope Sony get this nailed in the production model.
There is nothing to get massively excited about in the 1080P footage.... DR looks about the same as the AF100 and resolution looks similar to the GH2... although the low light looks very good.
Hopefully we will get to see some better results in a production setup when people figure out the settings (not that I am complaining that we got to see a 1080p example... thanks for that).
There is nothing to get massively excited about in the 1080P footage.... DR looks about the same as the AF100 and resolution looks similar to the GH2... although the low light looks very good.
Hopefully we will get to see some better results in a production setup when people figure out the settings (not that I am complaining that we got to see a 1080p example... thanks for that).
BobbyMurcerFan
Well-known member
Reading about this camera just makes my head hurt now. I can't make heads or tails out of it and nothing seems to be what one would expect. I'm going to wait until the real thing comes out.