Sony NEX-FS100 with Super 35mm CMOS image sensor
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Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Thanks Nigel, I plan on getting my hands on one and trying it out. I do appreciate your review. If more than anything, the things you are unhappy with will be some of the first things I will be looking at to see how much of a pain they are to me. I come from a DSLR background, so I am willing to work around some aspects. Although, that said, the AF100 has made me VERY happy so far. It's just strange because I feel like almost all the complaints I have had about the AF100 seem to be addressed in the FS100 (outside of build quality mind you), and yet, they removed things I absolutely love, like the ND filters and the waveform.
I realize you had no manual, and no time, and were on a preproduction unit. If you checked any of this things out, I would LOVE to know:
1) Can you remote control focus/Iris from the remote port if you are say on a crane? Or is that port just for start/stop of the camera.
2) How did you like the histogram? I didn't see it up on any of your shots. How does it compare in judging exposure to the WFM on the AF100 which is AWESOME.
3) With the gain button, can you quickly switch between more than just 3 preset gain settings? Can you also have them given to you in ISO ratings? I see the typical 3 position gain switch as on the AF100, so I am REALLY curious about the gain button as I want more access quickly to the gain values (especially without ND filters).
4) Are there selectable guides you can use when shooting non-16x9 shoots? Do they just draw up lines like the AF100, or do they darker the outside areas like the Red?
5) Is there a microphone in the body if you aren't using the add-on one?
I think everyone needs to remember this was also a preproduction model. Not that I expect much body changes to come about, but, one never knows.
Again, thanks for taking the time to try this camera out.
Rick
I realize you had no manual, and no time, and were on a preproduction unit. If you checked any of this things out, I would LOVE to know:
1) Can you remote control focus/Iris from the remote port if you are say on a crane? Or is that port just for start/stop of the camera.
2) How did you like the histogram? I didn't see it up on any of your shots. How does it compare in judging exposure to the WFM on the AF100 which is AWESOME.
3) With the gain button, can you quickly switch between more than just 3 preset gain settings? Can you also have them given to you in ISO ratings? I see the typical 3 position gain switch as on the AF100, so I am REALLY curious about the gain button as I want more access quickly to the gain values (especially without ND filters).
4) Are there selectable guides you can use when shooting non-16x9 shoots? Do they just draw up lines like the AF100, or do they darker the outside areas like the Red?
5) Is there a microphone in the body if you aren't using the add-on one?
I think everyone needs to remember this was also a preproduction model. Not that I expect much body changes to come about, but, one never knows.
Again, thanks for taking the time to try this camera out.
Rick
Nigel-Cooper
Member
Hi Rick
Thanks for your feedback, and you are right, people must check out the camcorder for themselves. Some people will like it, some won't. I love the image quality, but hate the build quality, but let's not go over that again.
In answer to your questions.
Not sure if you can remote focus/iris from the remote port as I didn't have a third party controller for that. But I suspect it is only for start/stop record as this is where you have to plug the side grip lead in so the start/stop button on it will work. That is annoying also, the lead that hangs from the side grip and has to be fed around the back to the remote socket.
I didn't use the histogram, forgot that one with the time constraints and all, but I used the zebras at 95%. For the record, the histogram on the Panasonic is pretty good, but even on the AF101 I still prefer zebra at 95%, just my personal way or working though.
You can only switch between 3 gain settings, I set them to 0, 9, 18. Only gain, no ISO, the Panasonic is unique in that area, which is another reason 'proper' filmmakers love the AF101.
Yes, the FS100 does have 'guides' and 'frames' visible on the LCD, these are selectable in the menus, I didn't see how many there where, but the default was 95% if my memory serves me correctly. Yes you are correct, they simply draw up lines like the AF101.
No, I didn't see any built in microphone at all, so an add-on one is required.
As for pre-production model, yes it was, but I would almost bet anything that this doesn't change in the units that start selling at the end of the summer. I got an EX1 6 months before you could buy one, my production company wrote and produced the Sony EX1 informercial of 30 minutes in duration. The EX1 pre-production unit I had suffered from a few gremlins, I brought them to Sony's attention and they said the final model would not be like that, years later, it is still like that.
Besides, any tiny gremlins that are mentioned by people like me with pre-production models is weighed up by companies. My best guess is that any given company (not just Sony) will look at how much money it will cost to modify part of the production line (can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars) compared to how much it will cost them in replacement units/parts be end users over the expected life of the technology (camcorders are about 5 years) and if figure b (sending spare parts to dealers for repair) is less than figure a (modifying production line machinery) they will ship the product with the flaws. Sending out 1000 broken mic/holders/handles to customers to replace their broken one over 3 years is a hell of a lot cheaper than modifying a production line. I'm sure what I was using was/is the finished product. If Sony were to fix everything I'm not happy with, they would have to open the camera up, take the sensor out, and put it into a completely different camcorder altogether; that is not going to happen.
Thanks for your feedback, and you are right, people must check out the camcorder for themselves. Some people will like it, some won't. I love the image quality, but hate the build quality, but let's not go over that again.
In answer to your questions.
Not sure if you can remote focus/iris from the remote port as I didn't have a third party controller for that. But I suspect it is only for start/stop record as this is where you have to plug the side grip lead in so the start/stop button on it will work. That is annoying also, the lead that hangs from the side grip and has to be fed around the back to the remote socket.
I didn't use the histogram, forgot that one with the time constraints and all, but I used the zebras at 95%. For the record, the histogram on the Panasonic is pretty good, but even on the AF101 I still prefer zebra at 95%, just my personal way or working though.
You can only switch between 3 gain settings, I set them to 0, 9, 18. Only gain, no ISO, the Panasonic is unique in that area, which is another reason 'proper' filmmakers love the AF101.
Yes, the FS100 does have 'guides' and 'frames' visible on the LCD, these are selectable in the menus, I didn't see how many there where, but the default was 95% if my memory serves me correctly. Yes you are correct, they simply draw up lines like the AF101.
No, I didn't see any built in microphone at all, so an add-on one is required.
As for pre-production model, yes it was, but I would almost bet anything that this doesn't change in the units that start selling at the end of the summer. I got an EX1 6 months before you could buy one, my production company wrote and produced the Sony EX1 informercial of 30 minutes in duration. The EX1 pre-production unit I had suffered from a few gremlins, I brought them to Sony's attention and they said the final model would not be like that, years later, it is still like that.
Besides, any tiny gremlins that are mentioned by people like me with pre-production models is weighed up by companies. My best guess is that any given company (not just Sony) will look at how much money it will cost to modify part of the production line (can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars) compared to how much it will cost them in replacement units/parts be end users over the expected life of the technology (camcorders are about 5 years) and if figure b (sending spare parts to dealers for repair) is less than figure a (modifying production line machinery) they will ship the product with the flaws. Sending out 1000 broken mic/holders/handles to customers to replace their broken one over 3 years is a hell of a lot cheaper than modifying a production line. I'm sure what I was using was/is the finished product. If Sony were to fix everything I'm not happy with, they would have to open the camera up, take the sensor out, and put it into a completely different camcorder altogether; that is not going to happen.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Nigel,
Thanks for your response on those questions. What does that gain button do? I also forgot to ask, how did you like the 2:1 focus zoom assist?
I wanted to also say that people seem to fixate on one aspect of a camera as *the* defining property of that camera, but for others, it may not be as much of a big deal. For instance, you feel the ergonomics and lack of features overshadow the gains in image quality. I absolutely understand where you are coming from. There are so many little aspects and features that all add up to make your job easier or harder. Like, remote control of the camera, or more gain fine tuning, or focus assist methods, or histograms, on and on. Something as simple as no microphone in the body is a pain to me. I love the mic built into the AF100 so I can pick up the slate and not have yet one more wire or piece hanging off my camera. Of course, if someone wanted to be smart, they could develop a small microphone with XLR on the back that just plugs into the port and faces foreward
For me, I like the size of the FS100, as I REALLY wish I could remove the EVF off the AF100.
Feature wise, it certainly lacks a lot of things I like about the AF100. The two BIGGEST draws for me are weight and 2:1 focus zoom. IQ is something I'll have to wait and see.
Again, thanks for the response!
Rick
Thanks for your response on those questions. What does that gain button do? I also forgot to ask, how did you like the 2:1 focus zoom assist?
I wanted to also say that people seem to fixate on one aspect of a camera as *the* defining property of that camera, but for others, it may not be as much of a big deal. For instance, you feel the ergonomics and lack of features overshadow the gains in image quality. I absolutely understand where you are coming from. There are so many little aspects and features that all add up to make your job easier or harder. Like, remote control of the camera, or more gain fine tuning, or focus assist methods, or histograms, on and on. Something as simple as no microphone in the body is a pain to me. I love the mic built into the AF100 so I can pick up the slate and not have yet one more wire or piece hanging off my camera. Of course, if someone wanted to be smart, they could develop a small microphone with XLR on the back that just plugs into the port and faces foreward
For me, I like the size of the FS100, as I REALLY wish I could remove the EVF off the AF100.Feature wise, it certainly lacks a lot of things I like about the AF100. The two BIGGEST draws for me are weight and 2:1 focus zoom. IQ is something I'll have to wait and see.
Again, thanks for the response!
Rick
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
It was just said in another thread that a Sony rep is saying the HDMI output will be able to provide 10-bit output. This was NOT something I specifically heard, I am just passing this information along. In addition, the rep said the sensor is exactly the same as the F3 and provides the same S/N and gain selections (up to +18dB). It's possible it was also not functioning yet on the pre-production models.
Nigel-Cooper
Member
stockfuel, no I didn't, I have an AJA Ki Pro Mini here, but I'm in the middle of trying to source the right size screws to allow me to attach the IDX V-plate to the Ki Pro side plate. I didn't really fancy having it hang off the back of the FS100, especially with only a HDMI cable between it and the floor 
I can almost certainly say that it will make a difference though; especially with a Ki Pro Mini. Although the FS100 (like the AF101) only outputs 8-bit, you are getting a higher bit-rate of 100Mbps (as opposed to 28 using AVCHD) and the colour space improves over the AVCHD 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 so scientifically it has to improve image quality.
Could not comment on Dynamic Range at this point, not to any degree of accuracy anyway, but looking at my footage is looks as good as the EX1, possibly better. It certainly has a different 'look' to the EX1, a more pleasing and natural one that I really like.
Rick, the sensor in the FS100 is exactly the same one as used in the F3, 10-bit is not an option though and I'm sure the Sony rep is mistaken here.
I must stress, that I am quite fussy with build quality and ease of use of any given product. Although the FS100 is not particularly suited to my shooting style, there is a huge market and a big audience out there; the FS100 will be more than suitable for a lot of the market it is aimed at.
I can almost certainly say that it will make a difference though; especially with a Ki Pro Mini. Although the FS100 (like the AF101) only outputs 8-bit, you are getting a higher bit-rate of 100Mbps (as opposed to 28 using AVCHD) and the colour space improves over the AVCHD 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 so scientifically it has to improve image quality.
Could not comment on Dynamic Range at this point, not to any degree of accuracy anyway, but looking at my footage is looks as good as the EX1, possibly better. It certainly has a different 'look' to the EX1, a more pleasing and natural one that I really like.
Rick, the sensor in the FS100 is exactly the same one as used in the F3, 10-bit is not an option though and I'm sure the Sony rep is mistaken here.
I must stress, that I am quite fussy with build quality and ease of use of any given product. Although the FS100 is not particularly suited to my shooting style, there is a huge market and a big audience out there; the FS100 will be more than suitable for a lot of the market it is aimed at.
dustylense
Veteran
Why no mention of the auto focus of the FS100. I have a NEX vg10 and it's auto focus is quite good. I would expect the FS100 is the same? My Gh2 doesn't AF nearly as nice as my NEX10. Nigel, care to input on this?
I had contacted Sony yesterday about the HDMI output. They told me they'd look into it and get back in touch with me. I just got off the phone with an engineer at their pro camera division who assured me the HDMI is outputting 10 Bits!!!! Pretty impressive. I can certainly handle ND filters as most my expensive glass is Nikon primes that all take 52 mm filters anyway. 2 or 3 ND filters off BH and I'm covered. Yeehaaw!
jackal2513
Active member
As a neutral outsider with no vested interest i felt that the sony review was a bit biased, evidenced by the fact that where praise was obviously due, it wasn't given in a very commited or emphatic manner. In the end conclusion it's as if image quality isn't a very important feature. In contrast I read the AF101 review and found that a bit gushing. The opening comments about DSLR's being useless are in my experience way off as well. There are plenty of people out there using dslrs, from well known promo directors to full on half a million pound commercials (e.g. Innocent smoothies latest campaign). I am talking about top level work here through .... the best ad agencies and production companies London has to offer, not hobbyist camerman-come-directors who continually post junk on Vimeo.
Im personaaly looking forward to investigating both the panny and this new sony. The world is a richer place becuse of both of them. Love the form factor here as well.
Im personaaly looking forward to investigating both the panny and this new sony. The world is a richer place becuse of both of them. Love the form factor here as well.
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John Caballero
Veteran
It has autofocus function.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-nxcam/product-NEXFS100UK/
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Okay, well, that definitely changes things if that turns out to be true.
Nigel-Cooper
Member
dustylense, yes, I didn't mention AF in the review, but I used it simply for 'locking' on to get focus. I used the camera in manual focus, and pressed the 'push af' button to get the camera to lock into focus. It is similar to the EX1, which I have had a lot of experience with . The market the FS100 is aimed at should not be disappointed in it's AF system. I haven't tried a Gh2 so can't compare.
Nigel-Cooper
Member
My Sony UK contact has told me twice on the phone that the FS100 outputs 8-bit via HDMI, I'm very inclined to believe him as he is on the ball with the technical aspects of Sony camcorders and he has a lot of knowledge of the products. However, now you have got me wondering slightly so I will email him for some kind of 100% confirmation.
dustylense
Veteran
I'm going to assume the AF acts and responds like the NEX10, which would be a MAJOR plus for this camera. The Gh2 focus OK, but it does hunt and pulsate to achieve focus. THe NEX is smooth and tracks very well, it will hunt on long focal shot in "low light", but overall for a large sensor cam is quite good.
Now, with 10bit output HDMI on the FS100, I'm glad I held off the AF100 to wait and see what this Sony can offer. Regardless, both cameras are major kick ass! But with 10bit, I lean towards the Sony, even if it were made out of cardboard....
Please do Nigel. I think your review is the only one saying 8 bit and everyone who is touting that information was probably getting it from you.
The lack of confirmation from Sony or anyone else is why I contacted them personally. You know, get it from the horses mouth so to speak. The gentleman I spoke to was in their engineering department (Doug) of their professional camera division here in the states. It sounded like he knew what he was talking about and I'm pretty excited at the prospect that 8-bit output was just another bit (no pun intended) of misinformation in your review.
The lack of confirmation from Sony or anyone else is why I contacted them personally. You know, get it from the horses mouth so to speak. The gentleman I spoke to was in their engineering department (Doug) of their professional camera division here in the states. It sounded like he knew what he was talking about and I'm pretty excited at the prospect that 8-bit output was just another bit (no pun intended) of misinformation in your review.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Why didn't someone ever create a locking HDMI, man, that would solve SO many problems. I have broke probably 10+ HDMI cables on shoots before. I usually bring 5 to every shoot just in case. (Mostly the problems were with the miniHDMI on the 7D).