Sony new DSLRs with video 30p only

H

HHL

Veteran
the NTSC version records 30p in 60i container, the PAL version records 25p in 60i container

25p could be good enough for me (I'm in europe), if there was no aliasing/moire, which I think is not the case either (*)...

BUT

no manual control? seriously, sony...
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta55/page14.asp
"Using Movie Mode: (...) The A55's movie mode lacks manual control over shutter speed and aperture (if you shoot with manual focus you can set the aperture before you start recording) but nevertheless still offers some scope for creative control. You can apply exposure compensation while creative styles, white balance, AF area and metering mode are all taken over from the current stills image settings."

(ok, so, setting aperture and then playing with exposure compensation may get you where you want to go, but really, was all this nonsense really necessary?)

(*) there are some sample videos in the link above, but I won't be able to see them until I get home
 
So no manual mode, no 24p, has rolling shutter and on first glance, looks like scaled SD footage.... so much for Sony's promise of only adding video when they perfect it.
 
Incredible AF is pointless if it doesn't tick any of the other boxes. 30p? No proper manual control? Not only are Sony late to the party, they are innapropriately dressed too.
 
Jeez, people, those cameras start at $650. That's entry-level by any definition.

Complaining that it doesn't 'tick' the boxes for features that professional videographers would want is idiotic. Its not the tool for the job nor was it meant to be.

Also, rolling shutter doesn't seem to be all that bad, and quality looks good overall, and m43rds cameras in that price range also are locked to 30p and don't have manual controls as well. But as a a camera the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive, and Luminous Landscapes even goes on to say the camera will be regarded as a 'landmark' camera.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony-a55-preview.shtml
http://dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta55/
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/AA55/AA55A.HTM

This camera isn't for serious video acquisition, but the pellicle mirror seems to be the ideal setup for future video-centric SLRs.
 
Steve Castle said:
Jeez, people, those cameras start at $650. That's entry-level by any definition.

Complaining that it doesn't 'tick' the boxes for features that professional videographers would want is idiotic. Its not the tool for the job nor was it meant to be.
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How is it idiotic when the T2i already includes those features and at this point in game to not include 24p... is just stupid!

Furthermore, people are using the T2i for professional application, which is an entry level camera. Was the 5D designed for videographers.. no but people are still using them and these cameras look better then many of the "pro" video cameras out there.
 
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Of course it isn't.

But it is the framerate that we filmmakers want. And as a community of filmmakers, it's certainly understandable (or darn well should be) why we're disappointed whenever a manufacturer leaves out that feature.
 
You can see my opinion on this here - http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=221014

Small part:
"I see Sony actions as follows.
They get brood of kittens. Future champions. Amazing looks.
Sadly, one night,very bad marketing manager got all kittens in the sack and went to nearest river. And throw them into the river.
For their luck, good engineer seen this nightmare.
But it took him 15 minutes to get poor kittens out of the cold water.
And still only four survived.
Even with intensive therapy all now have very serious сhronic diseases.
Two of them couldn't eat as their jaw muscles do not work. So, they inserted translucent mirror inside their throat and said that so it was."...
 
Heavily forced metaphor.
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True, but it's funny. :)

What's NOT FUNNY is how far off base this move is. It's rather ironic that it's Vitaliy that's making the comment....because he has SINGLE HANDEDLY done what SONY (in this case) HAS FAILED TERRIBLY TO DO:

Move this product segment FORWARD.

OK...Sony didn't bring Full Frame video to the party (to challenge the 5d Mark II)....fine....but....the fact is...they didn't BRING ANYTHING. As a company that talks a lot of SMACK about innovating, this is truly pathetic.

What about Vitaliy? He brought high-bit rate DSLR footage, that is PHOTO QUALITY for under 600.00. Is this going to end the Red Scarlet? NO. But Vitaliy MOVED THE PRODUCT SEGMENT FORWARD. Other DSLRs WILL compete with the GH13 OR MANY OF US WON'T BUY NEW ONES UNTIL THEY DO!!! It moved the product segment forward!!

DAMN YOU SONY!! Next time you show up....bring something that someone gives a *&%# about. (Oh ya....I forgot....auto focus....sweet...now my totally NON-MANUAL shot will be in focus if I'm moving, if it actually works)....

I'm still ranting....but I'll keep it to myself. :(
 
Special note to Sony about proper implementation of video mode for average Joe.
Capacitive touch screen and ability to put your finger to your baby image on screen and camera will track it until next finger press (and yes, with contrast AF). Period.
This is that people want (unless special dedicated AI chip with direct mental connection will be added in 2020 year models).
 
Barry_Green said:
Of course it isn't.

But it is the framerate that we filmmakers want. And as a community of filmmakers, it's certainly understandable (or darn well should be) why we're disappointed whenever a manufacturer leaves out that feature.
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acoelho1 said:
How is it idiotic when the T2i already includes those features and at this point in game to not include 24p... is just stupid!

Furthermore, people are using the T2i for professional application, which is an entry level camera. Was the 5D designed for videographers.. no but people are still using them and these cameras look better then many of the "pro" video cameras out there.
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Here's the point, not all cameras are designed for film makers, nor should we expect an entry-level SLR/"SLT" to be cater those needs. I was the first to display my disappointment at the lack of features in the Sony NEX-VG10 because that was a product that legitimately should have offered those features relative to the price level, but the world does not revolve around us.

The Nikon D3100, Canon T2i already offer 24P at a cheap price, videographers have those cameras as options. But if this is equipment that you are going to be earning a living with, it would display questionable judgment on entry level equipment designed for amateur vacationers that has video as an afterthought.

Well placed criticism can be constructive, but here this whining is only marring potential intellectual discourse from something that is truly interesting. These "SLT"s are a complete rethinking of the SLR mirror-box design, hiterto mirrorbox has only gotten in the way of video, the entire assembly has had zero use when taking video. While these entry level A33/A55 are clearly not videocentric, the inevitable higher-end SLTs, that are expected to be announced Photokina a month from now, may be much more interesting.
 
Here's the point, not all cameras are designed for film makers, nor should we expect an entry-level SLR/"SLT" to be cater those needs.
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Well placed criticism can be constructive, but here this whining is only marring potential intellectual discourse from something that is truly interesting.
Click to expand...

Move this product segment FORWARD.
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Uh...I don't want to beat this to death, but....I'll accept a design not for film makers...I'll even "stop whining"...but....we SHOULD expect more from Sony. They delayed their entry into this (DSLR) market, and in their own words, said that they wanted to "get it right". I'm asking Sony, or better said, I EXPECT SONY, AS A MARKET LEADER....to do just that: LEAD! ...by moving the product segment forward.
 
HHL said:
Uh...I don't want to beat this to death, but....I'll accept a design not for film makers...I'll even "stop whining"...but....we SHOULD expect more from Sony. They delayed their entry into this (DSLR) market, and in their own words, said that they wanted to "get it right". I'm asking Sony, or better said, I EXPECT SONY, AS A MARKET LEADER....to do just that: LEAD! ...by moving the product segment forward.
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Sony isn't a "market leader" in the SLR market; far from it. And Sony does make sensors for Nikon, the IMX021 was used in the D90/D300s. 'Doing it right' for the them means that they aren't releasing video that looks like what Nikon has been releasing with their sensors.

As for the video market, they are releasing a S35 camera which is really meant for professionals; not sure if it'll be an AF100 competitor or something more, but they aren't going to be moving forward with this thing. I mean, $650-750 is where Canon currently positions its Rebel XSi/T1i afterall (and Sony SLRs drop in price rapidly).
 
HHL said:
Uh...I don't want to beat this to death, but....I'll accept a design not for film makers...I'll even "stop whining"...but....we SHOULD expect more from Sony. They delayed their entry into this (DSLR) market, and in their own words, said that they wanted to "get it right". I'm asking Sony, or better said, I EXPECT SONY, AS A MARKET LEADER....to do just that: LEAD! ...by moving the product segment forward.
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Good LORD.

You want a market leader? Go buy and F35. Done.

24p doesn't always play nicely with video gear the average Joe has at the house. If memory serves, how did Panasonic's entry into this market handle 24p? How long was it before the 5D had 24p? And the 5D STILL cannot overcrank while it's consumer entry SLR can.

Yes, this is NOT the entry aimed at filmmakers. Just like Nikon's recent release isn't either. I'd expect both to have something aimed at filmmakers by next spring if not sooner. I am quite sure both would like to have product on the shelves for the Christmas season to stem the tide of people going to Canon.

But indie filmmakers (especially new ones) seem to be "give me everything I want right now for $800) people with a significant lack of patience or understanding their relative miniscule place in the greater market.

Walk into Wal-Mart and see how many cameras you see with XLR inputs. Two years ago, the argument was how to afford a $2k Letus adapter to make your 1/3" CCD chip look like film. Now you want a $650 camera with S35 sized sensor, clean HDMI output all the time, and clean 1600 ISO. And nevermind about trying to make a tool for the masses to finance the effort, just gimme the damn camera I want right now, or I'll vent on you in the indie forums!
 
I understand that these are still cameras, and that we are a niche market for all these companies, and so this features are not that important for them, BUT I don't think having manual controls, the right frame rates, and a decent LCD (which the D3100 lacks) was bad for t2i sales...

maybe having proper autofocus would have done even better, but it's not a matter of one or the other, the cost of adding manual controls and 24p/25p/30p can't be that high

plus, it is not all that non-important: if you make something remarkable, it will show up in the hand of pros (think "house"), and even the average joe will know about that when he's researching which camera to get next

in any case, let me say that T2i is all I need... except for the line skipping; I know it's not the end of the world, but I'm really bad at avoiding aliasing/moire, and I hate it; let 60D have the exact same video capabilities of the T2i (including codec, bitrate, hdmi out, ISO capabilities, etc), but without line skipping and for under $1000, and I'll get one, then come much less often to these forums to rant abot what a camera is lacking
 
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