FS7: Sony FX9 v Canon C500 mkII

It's not possible to get a downsampled (6k to 4k) RAW Image right?

I don't need those big files...just to get real 4k.
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Liam Hall said:
Good post James. What are the effeciencies you see with the FX9 over the Canon?
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How about this. What if i use both cameras for real projects and get back to you? I’ve only played around with them, and thought about the things i like in each one. My personal preference is leaning torwards the C500ii. But if i ever start working in my previous work again, i may lean towards the Fx9.

Seeing your later comment about the work around for the manual audio controls, i am not certain what you are looking for in considering efficiencies. And certainly my hypotheticals are easy mention alternatives. Then we’re just chasing our tails.

The audio controls being on the same side as the operator is kind of a professional standard in some fields of work. Luckily, the Canon has a low cost solution for that. And the DC tap on the wooden camera thing is not ideal, but at least the NP battery is there in case the unlikely happens. Also that means the batteries are now hot swappable.

If these were the only two cameras in the world, i might be more favourable towards the C500ii. But when i think of reasons that i would choose the Canon over the Fx9, then i start comparing the C500ii to Red, Venice, and Arri. The argument becomes diluted when we shift parameters.
 
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mantas said:
It's not possible to get a downsampled (6k to 4k) RAW Image right?

I don't need those big files...just to get real 4k.
.
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As far as I know, that would be beyond the c500II's capabilities. the FX9...not sure. A product manager stated plainly that it would not do a 6k output ever, but they have a 16bit raw extension unit planned...so is that for just s35? I don't know enough about raw encoding to say whether a pre-bayer image can be downsampled or not (you'd think so...but...), whether the processors in these cameras are macho enough, is anyone's guess.
 
mantas said:
It's not possible to get a downsampled (6k to 4k) RAW Image right?...
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Technically speaking, the downsampling could be done in the recorder. Raw is one-for-one. This is why Nikon Z6 line-skips. Atomos Ninja5 doesn't downsample. It remains to be seen what S1H does with Raw, if it ever gets there.

How FX-9 will do this also remains to be seen.
 
DSLRs can downsample raw in camera: https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/DAP/Canon5DS/RAW-mRAW-sRAW-overview.html , should be possible to do in a video camera. However, this may be downsampling by dropping pixels vs. blending (filtering), so (detail) aliasing can be an issue. If simply downsampling the R, G, and B Bayer pixels separately, resulting in a new lower resolution Bayer image, color aliasing may be an issue. Not clear if this patent fully addresses the issue (didn't read in depth): https://patents.google.com/patent/CN103716606A/en . The answer is yes, it's possible, however not clear re: final quality.
 
DLD said:
Technically speaking, the downsampling could be done in the recorder. Raw is one-for-one. This is why Nikon Z6 line-skips. Atomos Ninja5 doesn't downsample. It remains to be seen what S1H does with Raw, if it ever gets there.

How FX-9 will do this also remains to be seen.
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The Sony F5 and F55 can record 2K raw from their full 4k sensors. I’m not sure why nothing else seems to offer that same raw downsampling capability.
 
Blackmagic's UMP does. (4.6K-ish sensor though.)

Z CAM's S6 (6K sensor) has a S16 ZRAW mode.
 
Grug said:
The Sony F5 and F55 can record 2K raw from their full 4k sensors. I’m not sure why nothing else seems to offer that same raw downsampling capability.
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Oh, a bunch of cameras downsample (Z6, A7III, S1, GH-5, and going as far back as Samsung NX1 from 2015). However, the manufacturers have a dilemma. If it's labeled Raw, it can't be processed (blended) but it can be line-skipped. That produces moire, as 6K-to-4K has to skip every other line. That's why all those Z6 moire tests spotted it, albeit after blowing the image up.

But, if they do full readout 6K, they may overwhelm the limited processing/bandwidth of a consumer tier monitor-recorder.

I have no idea how F55 downsamples from 4K to 2K. It could be by every method described by John (jcs) above. Obviously, being a high end pro camera, it had enough ability to deliver a decent image. But I remember a long defunct YouTube channel with a review of 80D, which downsampled from 6K to 2K (full sensor readout, no crop, insane line skipping/pixel binning to get from ~ 17.6 MPX down to 2.2) and the moire was good enough for 1960's Pink Floyd videos.
 
Jaime Valles gets credit for almost single handedly spec’cing the Canon C500ii for canon. This video seems almost like a blue print for the C500ii:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tStmKpGrp24

(Fyi, it’s a good thing. Everything the ‘fuhrer’ has on his wish list for Canon comes true in the C500ii)
 
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Liam Hall said:
Threadkill.
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The forum always quiets down from Friday to Sunday. Picks up on Monday-Thursday.

I was looking at C500ii and C700FF videos online, as i have a shoot coming up with the 500.
This video popped up, and was going to ignore it, but i noticed we had a Jaime Valle on dvx, and clicked it. Turned out to be one of those times where you hear someone complain, and then now we have the exact camera someone wished we had.
 
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James0b57 said:
This video popped up, and was going to ignore it, but i noticed we had a Jaime Valle on dvx, and clicked it. Turned out to be one of those times where you hear someone complain, and then now we have the exact camera someone wished we had.
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HAHAHA! I haven't watched that video in a while. And, yes, Canon basically made my dream camera with the C500 II. Now I just need to find a spare $16,000 somewhere between my couch cushions...
 
Jaime Valles said:
HAHAHA! I haven't watched that video in a while. And, yes, Canon basically made my dream camera with the C500 II. Now I just need to find a spare $16,000 somewhere between my couch cushions...
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YES! I knew that name was familiar! Haha!
 
JPNola said:
You can imagine how rich an opportunity it is for photography / cinematography.

Check out this piece from The Atlantic about the group who my avatar honors:

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Wow! That is a wild looking world! Would love to head down there with a director, such a visual feast!

Like a decade ago, i got to spend 36hrs down in Nola. I had read about it, sean stuff on it, heard about it, but being there was a different feeling . Then i kind of got a glimpse at feeling it. Really great place.
 
JPNola said:
You can imagine how rich an opportunity it is for photography / cinematography.

Check out this piece from The Atlantic about the group who my avatar honors:

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That's great. Definitely one of my favourite US cities. I filmed a doc there on Hurricane Katrina years ago. I had a great local crew who took me to all the cool places the tourists don't know about.

Stairs.jpg
 
We're stopping in New Orleans for two days on our way to NAB in April. It's been about 8 years since our last visit and I'm especially looking forward to the WWII museum this time. Very nice city.
 
Been fooling on twitter.. on HFR.. but I am serious

@sammorganmoore
You should always be able to outshoot your clients phone - many phones do 960p. $15g cams should eat that - maybe at 720

@sammorganmoore
Cams are basically 90s tech - it’s emabarrasing

@sammorganmoore
Fs700 250, fs7 180, fx9 120 - yay!
 
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