Other: Sony full frame unveiled, named "VENICE"

Nate Weaver said:
I try not to get really upset with Sony, but they did this to me twice. Bad. But it's part of the reason I jumped.
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They really just should've said it's a $55K camera, and there's a cheaper version of it that's $45K but doesn't have full frame enabled a la C200 and C200B. However, I suspect part of this stupidity is that they won't have the Full Frame function ready on release, they're just trying to shove it out the door as quickly as possible. Maybe they're THAT worried about Arri releasing a similar camera.
 
We want to feel the manufacs are onside.

'of course we wanted to give you 500FPS.. but it would have weighed another 3kg and cost another $50k - and we dont think you wanted those compromises'

All the hobbling just pushes people away.

Not to mention the hassle of making all work on camera prep days.. 'camera prep day' WTF is that.. and how costly? Its tragic that these bits of tech are so wonko that one must allocate a full day to making them work before heading for set.
 
A lot of jumping to conclusions here.
The reality is that it is very difficult to ascertain image quality until the camera is on the market for a while.
Specs are meaningless if its got real mojo.
Could be a winner, could be a loser. We just don't know.
If it's a winner, people will be jumping through hoops to use it.

I think it represents a real commitment to cinema for Sony. My intuition says they are back in the game.
We will see.
 
yoclay said:
A lot of jumping to conclusions here.
The reality is that it is very difficult to ascertain image quality until the camera is on the market for a while.
Specs are meaningless if its got real mojo.
Could be a winner, could be a loser. We just don't know.
If it's a winner, people will be jumping through hoops to use it.

I think it represents a real commitment to cinema for Sony. My intuition says they are back in the game.
We will see.
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I agree, and at the same time have to admit to often being wrong in my initial impressions. I thought when the Amira came out it was way too heavy and went through batteries much too fast for documentary work, and never understood how Red could have a camera where the cooling fan sounded like a hair dryer between takes -- yet both of these became very popular... Hopefully the Venice will gain its features quickly and we'll get to see what it does on full-blown productions.
 
yoclay said:
A lot of jumping to conclusions here.
The reality is that it is very difficult to ascertain image quality until the camera is on the market for a while.
Specs are meaningless if its got real mojo.
Could be a winner, could be a loser. We just don't know.
If it's a winner, people will be jumping through hoops to use it.

I think it represents a real commitment to cinema for Sony. My intuition says they are back in the game.
We will see.
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Honestly, Sony's always been a decently forward thinking manufacturer that's tried to take into account what the market wants. There's a ton of great design choices on the F55, the F5 made sense in a C300 dominated world. This camera makes a lot of sense too, but whether or not it'll be a success really depends on non-sensible factors than anything else. RED cameras are a huge pain in the ass that's improved over time, but their market dominance isn't due to ticking every box, it's a cocktail of timing and perception. I don't think there are really any losers left in the high end cinema market, the C700, V35, Weapon, VENICE and Alexa are all extremely viable. And, in a market where you're mostly being judged by what you can do at 24p in S35, there's isn't much that separates them.
 
IanTheM said:
Honestly, Sony's always been a decently forward thinking manufacturer that's tried to take into account what the market wants. There's a ton of great design choices on the F55, the F5 made sense in a C300 dominated world. This camera makes a lot of sense too, but whether or not it'll be a success really depends on non-sensible factors than anything else. RED cameras are a huge pain in the ass that's improved over time, but their market dominance isn't due to ticking every box, it's a cocktail of timing and perception. I don't think there are really any losers left in the high end cinema market, the C700, V35, Weapon, VENICE and Alexa are all extremely viable. And, in a market where you're mostly being judged by what you can do at 24p in S35, there's isn't much that separates them.
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I agree with that. Although some of the cameras you listed as high end to me aren't.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I'm still hoping to get a reply to my request for more information on this statement. In what way is Sony's RAW workflow slower than other cameras? I'd really like to know because I haven't worked RAW from other cameras.
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Only used raw from the F65. It took forever to copy and process. Very slow playback. that's it.
 
macgregor said:
I think it looks better than F65. I don't know who will pay $75K ish though for this camera when there's a beautiful Alexa mini for way less, smaller, and no need to wait 1-2 years to get it fully operational. I'm not a fan of Sony's RAW workflow. Too slow.
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Well who is going to pay $82K ish for a Varicam Pure? That's without EVF as far as I know. My early impression so far is that I would rather pay $75K for the Venice
 
macgregor said:
Only used raw from the F65. It took forever to copy and process. Very slow playback. that's it.
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So when you said, in your original post, "I'm not a fan of Sony's RAW workflow. Too slow. " It turns out you really have no idea how Sony's RAW workflow compares to the RAW workflows of other cameras, right? As as far as you know, Sony's workflow might actually 5x faster than other cameras. So we might even assume that any RAW workflow is not going to meet your expectations of speed. I just wanted to find out what your point of reference was when you singled out Sony's workflow. Thanks for clearing it up and now I can put your comments in perspective.
 
Doug - you know there was a specific lunacy (card reader had fixed IP on your network.. like I know how to set that up) to the F65 workflow.. I dont know if there still is.
 
Doug Jensen said:
So when you said, in your original post, "I'm not a fan of Sony's RAW workflow. Too slow. " It turns out you really have no idea how Sony's RAW workflow compares to the RAW workflows of other cameras, right? As as far as you know, Sony's workflow might actually 5x faster than other cameras. So we might even assume that any RAW workflow is not going to meet your expectations of speed. I just wanted to find out what your point of reference was when you singled out Sony's workflow. Thanks for clearing it up and now I can put your comments in perspective.
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I think you are reaching a bit much Doug. Macgregor works on totally different types of productions than you do. What might not be an issue for you just might for him. I also agree that the F65 RAW thing was very cumbersome when it came out. This actually kept people away from the camera and pushed them towards the much easier to use and process Alexa.
 
I've got about $60K wrapped up in my F55 hardware, not even including lenses. And the last thing I need is someone throwing around loose comments about the Sony RAW workflow being slow -- because I find that completely opposite of being true. It's comments like that which get picked up, repeated, thrown around, taken as the truth because nobody challenged it -- and before you know it clients don't want to shoot Sony RAW because they "heard" it was slow. That kind of inuendo affects me directly right in the wallet. So I honestly wanted to know how it was slower than other RAW workflows. Not having any experience myself with other RAW workflows I am not in a position to judge the relative speed so I legitimately wanted to get more details from the person who made the statement. But it turns out the person making that statement has no experience to compare to other RAW workflows, and to compound the issue, he may have actually been talking about an ancient F65 RAW workflow that has nothing to do with the F55 RAW workflow of today. So, I don't think is unreasonable to ask for additonal info and for people to be a little more precise (perhaps by saying "F65 workflow is slow") in whatever complaints they are throwing around. And as an F55 owner and RAW shooter I believe that I have a bigger stake in it, and a right to question what is being said, than people who don't. That's my 2 cents.
 
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Sttratos said:
I agree with that. Although some of the cameras you listed as high end to me aren't.
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IanTheM said:
I don't think there are really any losers left in the high end cinema market, the C700, V35, Weapon, VENICE and Alexa are all extremely viable. And, in a market where you're mostly being judged by what you can do at 24p in S35, there's isn't much that separates them.
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Which of those Sttratos are not high end?!?! They're basically the top cameras from each of the major brands.
 
Donny 123 said:
I dont think we can consider the Alexa high end anymore.. no where near 4K.. ancient, archaic , inefficient codec.. no XAVC .. heavy, battery eating dinosaur .. never get a netflix shoot.. bin it fast..
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Really? Except Alexas are still the industry standard and are still shooting $100 million+ movies in Hollywood as we speak. Besides, the F35 has been discontinued for years and it is still a very high end camera. Reason it still beats 90% of all cameras out there in image quality. I don't think you understand what makes a camera high end. Sorry.

Edit: Your sarcasm went right over my head. Well played. I should have paid more attention to the netflix bit. :grin:
 
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IronFilm said:
Which of those Sttratos are not high end?!?! They're basically the top cameras from each of the major brands.
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Technically high end is D21, Genesis, F35, Alexa, Alexa65, F65, Weapon, DXL, Venice.

C700, Varicam are mid range. Like the F55. If C700 and Varicam are in the list of high end so should the F55. But they are not. High end means the tip of the top.
 
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