Other: Sony full frame unveiled, named "VENICE"

[starcentral]

Current specs:
Full Frame Sensor 24×36 mm
Painterly Look
6K Full Frame 6048 x 4032 maximum resolution
4K Super35 window
Full Frame, full 6048 photosite width of the sensor
Widescreen spherical 2.39:1 or Large Format ‘Scope
Super35 full height 2.0x squeeze Anamorphic
8-Step, 8-Stop Internal NDs
PL and Ruggedized E-mount
Spherical FF & S35
Anamorphic FF & S35
15+ Stops of Exposure Latitude
Native ISO 500 (maybe 800)
12-G SDI
Retains highlights and color detail 6 stops overexposed and 9 stops into the shadows
Power: both 12 VDC and 24 VDC

Other claims:
- elegant highlight handling
- user swappable image block
- lens mount can also be changed to support E-mount lenses
- fast image scan technology minimizes “Jello” effects.
- new color management system with an ultra wide color gamut gives users more control and greater flexibility to work with images during grading and post-production
- 16-bit RAW/X-OCN via the AXS-R7 recorder, and 10 bit XAVC workflows

Price:
- $45k USD body only
- $6k for permanent full frame license
- $4k for permanent anamorphic license
$? temporary license costs unknown at this time

External Links
https://blog.sony.com/press/cinealtavenice/

28 pages from FD Times http://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/articles/sony/FDTimes-84-Sony-VENICE-Special-Report.pdf

Swappable sensor block

Native e-mount

Frame size comparison

Specs

Videos
THE DIG shot on Venice by DP Claudio Miranda
http://ps.sony.co.kr/pro/article/broadcast-products-venice-videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_F6fNlVLUk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIgTUuTpsI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj3P1cc2e64

 

[morgan_moore]

Locking Emount!

 

[Nate Weaver]

It looks like they're learning. Undecided whether I want to drive to Culver City tonight to see it.

It looks like a $35-40K body to me, plus R7 etc. Remember the Alexa Mini is $41K + EVF.

I would love to see Sony "get it", and make a camera that's not a PIA to use. But it would take an act of god to pry my Mini out of my hands.

 

[NorBro]

An interchangeable sensor sounds good.

 

[morgan_moore]

This looks within 'camera think' to be a great camera.

HFR seems lacking though? At this level maybe no HFR is better than 'pretend' HFR like on the FS7

 

[nsoltz]

I have been dark since getting my briefing so now I can talk. No leaks or fake news coming from me

No price is specified. My UK editor was briefed at Sony Pinewood and the Europeans gave a ballpark of 37K GBP. But in all fairness, I would rather not take that as a final number.

We were told that there was a simplified menu system.

Peter Crithary also tells me that sensor resolution is 24mp as opposed to 18mp of the F65. CFA is same as F65 but sensor is otherwise all new as is the color science.

Very large photosites on the sensor.

Native ISO is still TBA.

Important to note that F5, F55, F65 remain in the line and will be continued to be updated.

Sony's goal now is not to obsolete cameras. Venice will be around for a while.

Now... let me ask readers' opinions.

Should Sony have released an 8K rather than a 6K sensor? I will not offer an opinion now as I'm curious what others of you think.

Ned Soltz

 

[starcentral]

Updating first post as details roll in.

Price: $45k body only.

 

[Nate Weaver]

Should Sony have released an 8K rather than a 6K sensor? I will not offer an opinion now as I'm curious what others of you think.

Ned Soltz

No. The amount of times I've shot Dragon for clients that need more pixels for FX work, the decisions has always been between 5 and 6K, and usually landing on 5K. The time and SAN requirements to go higher than what is needed for the job, it always lands on practicality.

Since I was just typing what needs to happen on this camera for a friend, both of us former F5/55 owners, I'll copy and paste them here:


1-Gotta have LUTs all the way through. No “sometimes they’re on, sometimes they’re off”

2-Menus, reorganized, de-Sony'd, and faster

3-Fix the whole nobody knows what to do with color thing. Websites with clear instructions. Cut out the picture profiles, cinegamma. Make it simple. At the very least, fork the firmware so cinema users can have a very simple set of menus and parameters, and if they INSIST on being Sony and "we want to be everything to everyone and in the process please no one", give the ENG users their own firmware. They could probably stick LUTs in the header of the XOCN files like Arri does with their ProRes files and everybody would be better off. Everybody here knows how to do color on these cams, but there are still editors out there that scratch their heads when they hear "log". I run into them all the time.

 

[morgan_moore]

Native ISO is still TBA.

I
Should Sony have released an 8K rather than a 6K sensor? I will not offer an opinion now as I'm curious what others of you think.

Ned Soltz

Ali Chap says 500 ISO.

4k delivery is IMO all that is needed and 6k is perfect for that. 8k might be of use for SFX, VR and other special applications but is not required IMO for cinematography.

 

[NorBro]

Should Sony have released an 8K rather than a 6K sensor? I will not offer an opinion now as I'm curious what others of you think.

Yes, for superior 6K-4K-2K. Depending on the internal hardware/wiring, they could be saving it and we might see an 8K sensor in it in the future since the block is interchangeable.

 

[morgan_moore]

3-Fix the whole nobody knows what to do with color thing.

Have these people used light room? Camera bake carried through + loads of adjustments and extra latitude should they be required or chosen for reasons of 'art' - not hard

 

[Nate Weaver]

Have these people used light room? Camera bake carried through + loads of adjustments and extra latitude should they be required or chosen for reasons of 'art' - not hard

I didn't say it was hard. Editors are generally overworked and underpaid, and the last thing they want to do is figure out another camera format and it's log reqs off the clock.

 

[starcentral]

pure speculative post here:

sounds like maybe a new color science (they can call it sgamut4.cine) and highlight handling is coming to this camera, maybe explains the piss poor low ISO as they allocate few more stops to the top that don't show up on "charts" but creates some highlight roll-off capabilities in camera.

We can only hope.

I find the adjustable white balance funny since I had lobbied for this on the F55 CineEI mode.

 

[DLD]

It's a high end TV camera - UHD in RGB - which presumes decent lighting options.

Made for all their Zeiss full frame lenses.

And, yes, they should make an 8K camera ... on top of this one.

 

[Run&Gun]

Negatives and things that are lacking from my perspective...

No global shutter
No "high frame rates"
Native/base ISO is really low(what does it go up to?)
SIX(!) Screws to attach and remove the PL mount! Seriously? Obviously they want you to be able to swap mounts, otherwise they wouldn't have made it with a shallow flange depth base mount(E-mount), but it's not gonna be a quick change...

At $45K, I consider this to be in the realm of an owner-operator camera, not just a rental. I want/need to be able to quickly(less than 5-10 seconds) change mounts. I swap PL and EF on my F55 during the same shoot all of the time going from my CN-E primes to my 17-120 zoom.

Good thing I didn't make a bet with anyone on the E-mount. I did not see that coming.

 

[abreu-canedo]

Any Compression ratios or bit-rate info?

 

[Gene Sung]

Seems pretty cool IMO. I like that it's E-Mount as it's so versatile. Every time I used my Red I think... Dang... I wish this had an E-Mount option.

 

[markfpv]

This is finally an answer to my internal question... should I invest in E mount lenses? Looks like Sony is sticking with it (and this perhaps means more lenses from more mfg coming too)... now I wonder will the older cameras 5 / 55, get the new color science in fw updates?

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I wonder what the weight of the body is.

Limited internal recording options and frame rates is a bit surprising.

Negatives and things that are lacking from my perspective...

No global shutter
No "high frame rates"
Native/base ISO is really low(what does it go up to?)
SIX(!) Screws to attach and remove the PL mount! Seriously? Obviously they want you to be able to swap mounts, otherwise they wouldn't have made it with a shallow flange depth base mount(E-mount), but it's not gonna be a quick change...

At $45K, I consider this to be in the realm of an owner-operator camera, not just a rental. I want/need to be able to quickly(less than 5-10 seconds) change mounts. I swap PL and EF on my F55 during the same shoot all of the time going from my CN-E primes to my 17-120 zoom.

Good thing I didn't make a bet with anyone on the E-mount. I did not see that coming.

It's got an HDMI port!

 

[Gary T]

Any Compression ratios or bit-rate info?

The recording format are included in the screenshot Dennis included in his initial post.

I would be more of a renter vs a buyer but does look like it has a great deal of potential. The stills look great and I am looking forward to seeing footage.

I don't want to be negative but I don't think Sony aimed high enough when it comes to recording formats. Except for resolution it doesn't appear to break much new ground vs the F55 when it come to recording. I'm disappointed that we don't see a competitor to the Varicam's excellent AVC-Intra4K444 and that the ProRes is still limited to a (proxy) HD resolution. Sony is rightfully proud of their X-OCN ST and 16 bit linear RAW recording with the R7 but I would love to have seen ProRes 4444 XQ and a 444 XAVC variant. With the ProRes support the camera could have been a easier replacement for existing Alexa post production pipelines.

I also don't get the limited frame rates. It doesn't seem like much of an improvement vs the F55 given that it's the new flagship. I know it's apple and oranges but Venice doesn't beat the EVA1's frame rates. I am sure there is a great technical explanation but it's puzzling.