Sony f35 with odyssey 7q - ongoing experiences and evolutions

Can't say I agree, the F65 is an imaging beast, the clarity and DR really is a significant step beyond the F35. I saw it demonstrated on a 4k monitor and the fine details in distant objects was quite incredible. The problem with the F65 is that the F55 has completely cut its lunch. Here in Australia everyone is opting for F55 rentals for the lower cost, lighter-weight (and attendandant reduction in grip requirements), and superior ergonomics - not to mention close-to-equivalent image quality.
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
I'm playing with my C500 to see how the image stacks-up. So far, I'm pretty impressed.
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I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how the 12-bit 2K compares to the 10-bit 4K. I think it was Rodrigo Prieto who said he prefers the greater tonality of the 12-bit 2K - at any rate it's an interesting question of what influences the image more; resolution or tonality?
 
I do like me the look of the F65. Of all the CMOS based images it strikes me as the tastiest. Much prefer it to the 55 look. But it does definitely feel different than the F35. A bit thinner. Push comes to shove I prefer the F35 image better. CMOS images don't have the same zing to me that the CCD ones do. I get the appeal of the greater detail, higher res and higher DR and all the tech lust that drives sales to skilled pros. However, as unpopular as it may be to say so- audiences (in general) just don't care. So for now I'll wait and see if 4K ends up being the next 3d (DOA) or the next HD (new standard). If the world moves to 4K with real consumer level buy in then I can see getting an F65, assuming the price depression for it follows the F35's path. We'll see F65's for under $15k in less than 18 months, I wager.

For now this F35 imagery is just so nice that I don't feel a pressing need to do anything but write and shoot.
 
keithlango said:
I do like me the look of the F65. Of all the CMOS based images it strikes me as the tastiest. Much prefer it to the 55 look. But it does definitely feel different than the F35. A bit thinner. Push comes to shove I prefer the F35 image better. CMOS images don't have the same zing to me that the CCD ones do. I get the appeal of the greater detail, higher res and higher DR and all the tech lust that drives sales to skilled pros. However, as unpopular as it may be to say so- audiences (in general) just don't care. So for now I'll wait and see if 4K ends up being the next 3d (DOA) or the next HD (new standard). If the world moves to 4K with real consumer level buy in then I can see getting an F65, assuming the price depression for it follows the F35's path. We'll see F65's for under $15k in less than 18 months, I wager.

For now this F35 imagery is just so nice that I don't feel a pressing need to do anything but write and shoot.
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The thing is that 4K is more for the the capture than the screen. It definitely scales down to 2k and Full HD better, and also allows for reframing, which means that one has reduced on-set time when needing coverage.
 
yoclay said:
The thing is that 4K is more for the the capture than the screen. It definitely scales down to 2k and Full HD better, and also allows for reframing, which means that one has reduced on-set time when needing coverage.
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True, and there are times when I think "Man, it'd be nice to just be able to reframe this in post."
 
What we have to remember is that the F35/Genesis were very much designed at a time when processing 4K images in software was considered to be far too unwieldy. You only have to look at the solutions needed on Collateral etc.. to capture Viper footage to realise how unrealistic 4K must have seemed at the time - even more so 4K "raw".

I think the fairest way to compare the image of the F35 and F65, resolution aside, would be to ask the F65 to give us some 1080P S-Log2 footage, which can be done in-camera. See what the difference is like.

I have got to say to YOCLAY though the intent of the F35 is that it is "4K" in-camera, it just down-resses to 1080p internally (for better or for worse) and I definitely disagree that being able to reframe in post is in any way a solution for saving time on set. It might be that you can get a cheeky close-up out of a mid because you ran out of time, but if you have the time to do a shot properly I think you should always do it properly.
 
So i have been playing a LOT as of today, with my 7Q and F35. It took me a few days to gets all the kit i wanted before i released my first shots. Today i have an actor friends coming over for a location scout, where we will also be shooting some more test shots - moti0n is this cameras strong point..... with the global shutter and its sensor pick up patten, this camera and its sensor we designed for motion recording, its image really comes alive when you add skin tones and movement into the frame.

With reference to 4K and the F35.... i am lucky enoough to have both the F35 and my Red. I have been a red owner and we have used them in my company for a few years now. Commercially i have used the Red camera for car commercials, Reebok, ATP Tennis, Red Bull and many more, its a fantastic digital image. But that is also its weakness, its a fantastic digital image where there is very little organic atributes to it. Forums these days are plagued with dicsussions of low light comparissons, feature comparissons, footage examples and just the craziest things to justify the 'right' and 'best' camera....

But at the end of the day, you have to love the image that the camera produces. Being able to use 4K in post can be very nice, but lets be brutally honest for a second: HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO OWN HIGH RESOLUTION CAMERA EVER HAVE TO EXPORT TO 4K OR 2K FOR A CLIENT OR FILM? - Yes, some do and thats because they are that top line of production people who do that type of work. But the vast majority of people who shoot something like Red, do not know why they shoot Red apart from regergatating facts anf figures. It all depends on where you want your image to go, and i want mine to go digitally backwards.... towards film :)

If i have to buy a camera that is old, does all its processing internally, doesnt give me raw, and needs an external recorder to get a real film like astetic, then i will do it. I have said it before, and i can as we work in raw workflows all the time, if you NEED a raw workflow so that you can adjust all the data in post to get your images, then you could NEVER work with film! Everything in film is 'Baked' into the negative, just like video is. Rodger Deakins mentioned last year in his HR Interview that "There is a real watering down of the filmmaking process, film students not taking the time to light properly and set the camera up, relying on this idea of 'i'll do it in post', and its just not right".... and i have to agree :)

I will be posting some footage either today or over the weekend. This F35 with an external recorder like the 7Q is, in my opinion, the best kept secret in cameras right now....
 
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Well said Jon.

To put it into perspective, I was lucky to chat with Dean Semler a couple of years ago - a big proponent of the Genesis - and he shot a project on 35mm because he couldn't AFFORD the Genesis.

So we're arguing about a camera that an OSCAR WINNING DoP could not afford to rent even as little as three years ago. And this wasn't a student short, this was Angelina Jolie's film "in the land of blood and honey"
 
Hi Gentlemen.

Any updates on the 7Q experience? Any footy?

This thread is going off in another direction… But since we on the 4K blah blah subject, I've shot F65/F55 on 4 music videos. DR yay, clean yay, 4k RAW? ball ache. Mojo? if you work hard.
F35 = easy MOJO happiness! The best images I've ever worked with are F35 and Alexa. thats my 2 cents. infact I even shot a video half F35 half Alexa, and they so bloody similar that if I hadn't shot the video myself I would've probably not been able to tell the difference.
 
I shot a lot of stuff yesterday, been a crazy time with Subdance and now sitting at a gate boarding a flight to LA. I am going to try to look at the footage on the plane and upload something over the weekend.

In short, the 7Q has allowed the F35 to come alive in such a real way. This IS the most overlooked image out there right now. Dual input Into 7Q with 10Bit 4:4:4 with basic power kit gives a 15-17lb set up! That's with a zeiss superspeed.....

Footage coming in gas soon as I can get it to you guys!

One thing I would like to see on the 7Q is a battery percentage or some sort of readout for the external battery power!
 
OK, so here is video number one.... found some time to upload this after editing on the plane. Thats worth a good mention actually, this was edited and graded on a crazy bumpy flight from Salt Lake City to LA today, so its not perfect. Read the description on Vimeo for the full breakdown of info:

https://vimeo.com/85005849
 
TheWakePlace.com said:
One thing I would like to see on the 7Q is a battery percentage or some sort of readout for the external battery power!
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On the Upper Menu Bar, on the far next, just next to the * menu key is the SYSTEM STATUS readout of the voltage coming into the Odyssey7Q, the wattage being consumed by the 7Q, and the temperature of the processor. If you tap that readout then a window pops up with more detailed information.

Because the Odyssey7Q can accept such a wide range of power (6.5-34v) and there are so many sources from which to get power, we have no way to know what percentage you may still have available. But if you know your power source is 12v, then once you begin to drop below 11v you should think about changing to a fresh battery. The Odyssey will continue to function down to 6.5v, but the power at the very bottom of the battery will begin to fall off very quickly.

There is a warning system for you, as outlined in the manual. The voltage indicator in the SYSTEM STATUS box will first turn yellow, indicating that voltage is getting low for what the Odyssey needs to function. Then it will begin to flash as well, which means that the voltage is dangerously low. Definitely time to get fresh power.
 
TheWakePlace.com said:
OK, so here is video number one.... found some time to upload this after editing on the plane. Thats worth a good mention actually, this was edited and graded on a crazy bumpy flight from Salt Lake City to LA today, so its not perfect. Read the description on Vimeo for the full breakdown of info:

https://vimeo.com/85005849
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Did you start the grade with a LUT? Kinda looks like your laptop monitor may have been dimmed down so its a bit bright when viewed on a desktop. Otherwise, nice shots- Always hard to grade on a laptop! : )
 
LUT was on the third node.... But yes I was in an isle seat on the plane and it was tough to see the 13" screen :)

Looking at it this morning it is a bit bright...
 
Oh ok yeah its probably just the mix of 13" laptop screen and dropping it on the third node ; ) - regardless I gotta get a 7Q- seems awesome to use!
 
TheWakePlace.com said:
So i have been playing a LOT as of today, with my 7Q and F35. It took me a few days to gets all the kit i wanted before i released my first shots. Today i have an actor friends coming over for a location scout, where we will also be shooting some more test shots - moti0n is this cameras strong point..... with the global shutter and its sensor pick up patten, this camera and its sensor we designed for motion recording, its image really comes alive when you add skin tones and movement into the frame.

With reference to 4K and the F35.... i am lucky enoough to have both the F35 and my Red. I have been a red owner and we have used them in my company for a few years now. Commercially i have used the Red camera for car commercials, Reebok, ATP Tennis, Red Bull and many more, its a fantastic digital image. But that is also its weakness, its a fantastic digital image where there is very little organic atributes to it. Forums these days are plagued with dicsussions of low light comparissons, feature comparissons, footage examples and just the craziest things to justify the 'right' and 'best' camera....

But at the end of the day, you have to love the image that the camera produces. Being able to use 4K in post can be very nice, but lets be brutally honest for a second: HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO OWN HIGH RESOLUTION CAMERA EVER HAVE TO EXPORT TO 4K OR 2K FOR A CLIENT OR FILM? - Yes, some do and thats because they are that top line of production people who do that type of work. But the vast majority of people who shoot something like Red, do not know why they shoot Red apart from regergatating facts anf figures. It all depends on where you want your image to go, and i want mine to go digitally backwards.... towards film :)

If i have to buy a camera that is old, does all its processing internally, doesnt give me raw, and needs an external recorder to get a real film like astetic, then i will do it. I have said it before, and i can as we work in raw workflows all the time, if you NEED a raw workflow so that you can adjust all the data in post to get your images, then you could NEVER work with film! Everything in film is 'Baked' into the negative, just like video is. Rodger Deakins mentioned last year in his HR Interview that "There is a real watering down of the filmmaking process, film students not taking the time to light properly and set the camera up, relying on this idea of 'i'll do it in post', and its just not right".... and i have to agree :)

I will be posting some footage either today or over the weekend. This F35 with an external recorder like the 7Q is, in my opinion, the best kept secret in cameras right now....
Click to expand...

It's not a matter of "fix everything in post". The benefit of RAW is "would you rather spend time fiddling with settings on set, or in a nice quiet environment, with a calibrated monitor, that costs way less per hour than set." It's the same settings really, but you can delay fine-tuning them to a better environment, and that is very useful. That's not at all the same as not using lights, not knowing your craft, etc.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
It's not a matter of "fix everything in post". The benefit of RAW is "would you rather spend time fiddling with settings on set, or in a nice quiet environment, with a calibrated monitor, that costs way less per hour than set." It's the same settings really, but you can delay fine-tuning them to a better environment, and that is very useful. That's not at all the same as not using lights, not knowing your craft, etc.
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Sadly, there are quite a few people who do not realise this. I have seen many, many people who say things like "we don't need lights because the camera is really sensitive!" or "it's RAW so we don't need to light", my personal recent favourite was a man who wanted me to roll before there was enough light to match another shot "this is 4K, we can grade it". Yeah, 4K lets you grade in the sun.

I don't have many problems with RED in principle. Unfortunately, I believe their greatest contribution to our industry is to take away (whether consciously or not) the choice of camera from the DoP. I now encounter way too many producers and directors armed with a tiny bit of knowledge about cameras. They talk about 4K and RAW like they know everything, but the minute you talk about bit depth, aliasing or shutters they get lost.

Sometimes I do like the *inflexibility* of the log image over the RAW - I know exactly what they're getting in post and often that is very handy. I've seen many projects knackered by poor choices in REDCINE. Like anything, it is a great tool. But you must know how to use it.
 
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