Sony EX1 market plan: typical Sony

E

editorforhire

Member
Just a note regarding the issue of Sony EX1 using 4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2. A while back, I asked a Sony sales rep why the DSR500 DVCam didn't have a way to output settings to a CF or SD card to set up multiple DSR500 cameras. The DigiBeta cameras, like the DVW700ws, DVW790ws had this feature, but not the full-size DVCams. The sales rep said they wanted to keep certain features exclusive to their high-end and very expensive broadcast cameras to justify to price difference. There are other features of the Broadcast cameras that are superior to their Prosumer cameras, but that is Sony's basic philosophy. So, you won't see a 4:2:2 codec on a $7,000 but will see it on a $30,000+ (minus lens) Broadcast model. Sony wants the high-end players to feel they are getting more for spending quadruple the money.
 
No offence, but this is kinda common knowledge with sony. That said the EX1 still rocks the hell out of 4:2:0 anyways.
 
I used to think this but I dont subscribe to it anymore. I mean think of how many more ex models sony will sell over a 355. If they can implement 4:2:2 on the ex I think they would have.
 
No worries.
Cineform is about to change all of that with their portable recorders.
So 4:2:2 or GOP will no longer be an issue.
 
By Nab 2008 or next fall, Sony is going to have a bigger cam that spot maybe 1/2" lens or 2/3", TC in/Out shoulder cam with 4:2:2. I guess it will be the f35X replacement, but the price is going to be over $15k.
 
ecking said:
No offence, but this is kinda common knowledge with sony. That said the EX1 still rocks the hell out of 4:2:0 anyways.
Click to expand...
Well, some people are asking why no 4:2:2 on this new EX, yet Panasonic uses the 4:2:2 color space in their products, at least their HD products. The answer is Sony does not like to dilute its market segments. This is not common knowledge, as indicated by the many people asking why Sony did not use 4:2:2 codec for the EX. I do not doubt your considerable product knowledge, but I wanted to enlighten those without your keen Sony acumen.
 
William_Robinette said:
I used to think this but I dont subscribe to it anymore. I mean think of how many more ex models sony will sell over a 355. If they can implement 4:2:2 on the ex I think they would have.
Click to expand...
Sony will not risk alienating the market segment that buys their $40,000 cameras by putting the same or equivalent features on $7,000 models. To get 4:2:2 output, you'll need external recorders made by third-party vendors. Sony won't make it easy for you.
 
... and yet, that philosophy has resulted on them getting their hind end handed to them in the marketplace. So are they sticking with the old thinking?

Some would argue the EX1 actually exceeds the ~$25,000 F350 (F350 records 1440x1080, EX1 does 1920x1080; F350 doesn't have 720p mode at all, etc). Does this mean they've learned from their past mistakes?

I won't argue that what you describe was Sony's philosophy, obviously it was. Question is: have they learned? Panasonic knocked this idea on its butt by including DVCPRO-HD in a $5,000 camcorder. Sony seems to be doing its best to respond. So maybe that stupid isolationist protectionist philosophy is becoming a thing of the past? At least, a little?
 
Like the exceptional stupidity of not developing Vegas so as to compete with its Xpri editing system? Hmmmm.
 
So, you won't see a 4:2:2 codec on a $7,000
Click to expand...
Except through the hd-sdi port on the bottom of the EX1

yet Panasonic uses the 4:2:2 color space in their products
Click to expand...
And the 200 only has SD size CCDs scaling to HD versus the EX1's native 1080P CMOS chips.

So which do you value more, the chip that catches the image, or the colour space it is saved to?

;)
 
andrew_h said:
Except through the hd-sdi port on the bottom of the EX1


And the 200 only has SD size CCDs scaling to HD versus the EX1's native 1080P CMOS chips.

So which do you value more, the chip that catches the image, or the colour space it is saved to?

;)
Click to expand...

I value a camera that doesn't have a rolling shutter. :dankk2:
 
Don't start with the sensor comparisons again. Both sensors have their own issues and benefits. And they have been discussed ad-nauseum already.

And, the HVX200's sensor array is HD.

- Mikko
 
andrew_h said:
Except through the hd-sdi port on the bottom of the EX1


And the 200 only has SD size CCDs scaling to HD versus the EX1's native 1080P CMOS chips.

So which do you value more, the chip that catches the image, or the colour space it is saved to?

;)
Click to expand...
Well, considering I own a DSR500ws which is an awesome 2/3" DVCam camera with a Canon Broadcast lens, you'd think the picture would be exceptional. Well, for the most part, it is. Now, go do a chroma-key. DV's 25Mbps, 4:1:1 color space makes clean keying a problem. I've gotten clean keys, but it took way longer than the same scene shot with a Digi Beta camera, which is 50Mbps at 4:2:2. The 4:2:2 color space is simply the best if you are doing mattes, keys and compositing images. Maybe 4:2:0 will key out better than 4:1:1? I hope so for Sony's sake.
 
bruce edits said:
Maybe 4:2:0 will key out better than 4:1:1? I hope so for Sony's sake.
Click to expand...

4:2:0 has been around for a while. Keys are done all the time using 4:2:0. Everyone knows 4:2:2 is better for keys.
No issues with the EX1, 4:2:2 is available via SDI at your choice of codec, you're not strapped to the camera internal codec.
 
Stevet said:
4:2:0 has been around for a while. Keys are done all the time using 4:2:0. Everyone knows 4:2:2 is better for keys.
No issues with the EX1, 4:2:2 is available via SDI at your choice of codec, you're not strapped to the camera internal codec.
Click to expand...

No doubt Sony allows 4:2:2 output of the camera head via HD-SDI. However, until someone comes out with a really small, camera-mountable recording system (dual system recording), that records the HD-SDI signal, the EX becomes a very small studio camera. Reminds me of the old film days when your Nagra was tied to your film camera to get that pilot-tone sync. Not too portable. I'll be at NAB 2008, looking for that sub-$10,000 Sony handheld with 1980 x1080 recording at 50Mbps and 4:2:2 color space. I won't hold my breath, though. I will find that $35,000 2/3" XDCam HD camcorder.

Don't get me wrong, Sony makes some wonderful products and I have spent a small fortune acquiring them. But, unless things change radically, don't expect high-end features with mid to low end pricing from Sony.
 
Steve - the cineform seems interesting, but for the life of me, what does it do? Can it be used with an HVX?

Pardon the ignorance.
 
Cineform has been considering adding component inputs to one of the portable Cineform recorders, but nothing has been confirmed yet. If that's the case, these may be a welcome capture solution for the HVX200 and other component out cameras such as the JVC HD100.

Their first version is supposed to offer HDMI to Compact Flash using their Cineform (well respected 4:2:2 10 bit) intraframe codec.
 
IMO, when these are released, they are really going to open the doors for all who have been living with 4:2:0 GOP and want a decent 4:2:2 low compression intraframe portable capture solution. Not to mention Complact Flash 32GB cards are real cheap < $300 !
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top