Sony A7sII Initial Impressions

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paulcurtis

Veteran
Okay, so it turned up this morning. I've had some time with it but juggling other things too.

First impressions. It feels a bit more solid than the first. The LCD on the back is a bit bigger and has less border and the EVF image is bigger too. The dials have changed and generally it seems good. Odd place for the movie button as usual. Thanks Sony. The shutter sounds a bit more 'thunky' it nice.

What i've done so far is to mount the A7s and the A7sII on top of each other so i can look at rolling shutter. I'm preparing a stack of videos and also looking at steady shot with long lenses just doing real kinds of moves. So far in terms of straight full frame on both the rolling shutter is identical.

Steadyshot is working as advertised. But i need to look through the footage properly before drawing any real conclusions.

I left it recording with occasionally picking it up and moving around, it was 4K XAVC and steady shot on. I got 30 mins out of it and it was warm but not stupidly hot. The ambient temp here isn't very hot either. I'm not sure whether there is a record limit on this of 30 mins. I think there might be, but that looks positive (not that i've ever run a shot that long). Moving it around and a warmer environment may change things.

XAVC 4K is pretty blocky, even at 100mbps. Ideally it should be a higher bitrate but i will compare the two with external recording. However if your delivery is 1080p then UHD recording and downscale would yield excellent results.

I will be doing step wedge tests, noise comparison and all the various things i tend to do to understand it's limitations. These will happen over the next few days/week as i have to fit them in with real work. I can still see the purple blobby noise but it is lessened.

However the Slog3/Sgamut.cine image just looks better to my eye. I have to understand the exposure correctly, 1600 ISO f5.6 1/160th appeared to match 3200 f5.6 1/160th on the A7s but the A7sII clearly showed more highlight range.

If anyone has any specific questions i'll do my best to answer them.

cheers
Paul
 
Thanks Paul for your first impressions!
What is your room/surrounding temperature, please? My A7RII shouts down somewhen after 6-15 minutes at around 18°C indoor or outdoor without wind. Camera doesn't feel hot at all, with its back being just warmish with moved (opened) LCD. Below around 18°C (no hard limit, but my experiences/tests) or with wind it's better and almost safe to film the 30min, several times in a row.
So if A7SII manage to film 30min at around 20°C, no wind or indoor that would be much better...
 
A7s_user said:
Thanks Paul for your first impressions!
What is your room/surrounding temperature, please? My A7RII shouts down somewhen after 6-15 minutes at around 18°C indoor or outdoor without wind. Camera doesn't feel hot at all, with its back being just warmish with moved (opened) LCD. Below around 18°C (no hard limit, but my experiences/tests) or with wind it's better and almost safe to film the 30min, several times in a row.
So if A7SII manage to film 30min at around 20°C, no wind or indoor that would be much better...
Click to expand...

im guessing it was around 18. There is a section in the manual that talks about this. The max recording time is 29 mins. They say you can get 29 mins up to 30degC for 4K and HD and at up to 40degC the run time is 21mins for 4K but still 29 for HD. So I would say this looks better than the a7rII?

cheers,
paul
 
dcloud said:
Im curious to know more about that blocky 4k.
im guessig theres no 4k in s35crop mode?
Click to expand...

No internal 4k in s35crop mode that's correct. What I initially saw with a 4K frame was what looked like an corrupt start frame, super blocky but that's not true of the rest of the sequence. In lots of movement, leaves trees etc you will get macroblocking and in subtle grads this is also visible. That's to be expected though. Recording 4K and downsizing should produce great HD although that's worth a test. Is 100mbit 4K better than 50mbit HD when 4K is 4 times the size?

Cheers,
paul
 
Hey guys!

Did a test with A7S vs A7SII rolling shutter in 1080 FF HD and 1080 APS-C Crop HD internal recording.

Looks like nothing is different between them.

I did this in a relative hurry so yes the color is matched between cameras quite right. Also, you'll notice this one video is comprised of three clips.... the A7S and A7SII isn't always on the same side of the screen. Point is, if you can tell a difference, I'll tell you which is which. Otherwise, verdict says it's about the same.

 
paulcurtis said:
im guessing it was around 18. There is a section in the manual that talks about this. The max recording time is 29 mins. They say you can get 29 mins up to 30degC for 4K and HD and at up to 40degC the run time is 21mins for 4K but still 29 for HD. So I would say this looks better than the a7rII?
Click to expand...
That would be indeed much better - thanks for the great news!
I'm selling my A7RII now (intended in any case, since I need the low light of A7S/II)
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Hey guys!

Did a test with A7S vs A7SII rolling shutter in 1080 FF HD and 1080 APS-C Crop HD internal recording.

Looks like nothing is different between them.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ryan! I can confirm there's no difference in 4K FF mode either. But initial glances at the HFR stuff shows improvement at 50 and 100fps.

cheers
paul
 
I'm thinking about trading my A7sii (still in transit) for an A7rii. What a letdown. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it offers 4k and 1080p 120p only in FF mode, and rolling shutter in FF mode hasn't improved one bit. The A7rii is looking like a no-brainer. A7rii (though it overheats) allows 4k in super35 with much better rolling shutter. I will be able to use my speedboosted Canon lenses, to top it off, and overheating isn't as big of an issue with an external recorder. This camera makes less sense as a b cam for the Fs7/fs5. Its only saving grace is SLOG-3. They should've perfected FF rolling shutter OR made the MP count higher so that you get 4k readout in crop mode. Slow motion, extra stop, and mlut/slog are marginal improvements if you care more about rolling shutter. In which case, I would say that the a7rii is the superior b-cam.
 
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Guys, are you testing that overheating with IBIS on or off? I think Dan Chung stated that when used on sticks with IBIS off it does not overheat. Check this out before returning!
 
I haven't extensively tested (it's only been 2 days!) but slog3 seems to also do better in low-light.

With the mark 1, slog2 was daylight only, and cine4 was for anything in low light. Just casually turning on slog3 in low-light instantly showed an improvement in range for me.

And even tho the lowlight capability of the a7s ..'s esses... is obvious... the IBIS has surprised me further.

Check out this shot... a7s2, fe 28mm f/2 @ f7.1, 12,800 ISO, 1/6... free held! with the mark 1, I had to keep it above 1/60 for the SS and even then was hit or miss.


DSC01260 copy.jpg
 
boorye said:
I'm thinking about trading my A7sii (still in transit) for an A7rii. What a letdown. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it offers 4k and 1080p 120p only in FF mode, and rolling shutter in FF mode hasn't improved one bit. The A7rii is looking like a no-brainer. A7rii (though it overheats) allows 4k in super35 with much better rolling shutter. I will be able to use my speedboosted Canon lenses, to top it off, and overheating isn't as big of an issue with an external recorder. This camera makes less sense as a b cam for the Fs7/fs5. Its only saving grace is SLOG-3. They should've perfected FF rolling shutter OR made the MP count higher so that you get 4k readout in crop mode. Slow motion, extra stop, and mlut/slog are marginal improvements if you care more about rolling shutter. In which case, I would say that the a7rii is the superior b-cam.
Click to expand...

Actually the A7R II has much more visible rolling shutter in 4k s35 than full frame.
Don't ask me why but that's the thing. See the test of TheCameraStore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlbM2lEaI48
 
dcloud said:
Im curious to know more about that blocky 4k.
im guessig theres no 4k in s35crop mode?
Click to expand...

XAVC is still a compression codec - even if it is a little better than the previous compression codec.

100mbps is not very much for 4K even with XAVC. My GH2's burn 150mbps just doing 1080P and that's what it took to get rid of macro-blocking completely.
Sony really should offer a firmware update that let's choose a higher bit rate - at least 150mbps. But oh yeah...Sony doesn't do firmware updates on their DSLRs... bummer.
 
A reviewer said you can assign the record button to a custom button.

Has anyone noticed any IQ/noise improvement over the A7s in APS-C mode? 1080p highlight aliasing gone?

Despite the improvements we've still gotta put up with circa 2008 macroblocking and rolling shutter. Sony could easily increase the bitrate and include a 2.39:1 shooting mode to reduce the roller shutter. This is a camera primarily marketed for video capture after all.
 
diegocervo said:
Actually the A7R II has much more visible rolling shutter in 4k s35 than full frame.
Don't ask me why ...
Click to expand...
It reads 15 MPX for 4K. A7SII reads only 8.8. This means a higher resolution and better color rendering in s35 for RII but also a longer readout.
 
DLD said:
It reads 15 MPX for 4K. A7SII reads only 8.8. This means a higher resolution and better color rendering in s35 for RII but also a longer readout.
Click to expand...

So is it still true that rolling shutter is worse for A7rii in s35 than in FF?

nvmd... did some research. A7s seems to have better rolling shutter in crop mode, but the opposite is true for the A7rii.
 
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caseywilsondp said:
Paul, would love any footage you'd be willing to post so I could fashion a lut or two for slog3/sgamut
Click to expand...

Will do, it may take me a few days though. I'd rather take the time to test properly. On jury service next week, how that impacts message with new toys...

boorye said:
I'm thinking about trading my A7sii (still in transit) for an A7rii. What a letdown. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it offers 4k and 1080p 120p only in FF mode, and rolling shutter in FF mode hasn't improved one bit. The A7rii is looking like a no-brainer. A7rii (though it overheats) allows 4k in super35 with much better rolling shutter. I will be able to use my speedboosted Canon lenses, to top it off, and overheating isn't as big of an issue with an external recorder. This camera makes less sense as a b cam for the Fs7/fs5. Its only saving grace is SLOG-3. They should've perfected FF rolling shutter OR made the MP count higher so that you get 4k readout in crop mode. Slow motion, extra stop, and mlut/slog are marginal improvements if you care more about rolling shutter. In which case, I would say that the a7rii is the superior b-cam.
Click to expand...

The HFR stuff is 1080p only and FF only (at least to record it internally - i don't know what the HDMI output is doing at this point)

I'm still collating some footage to see but the rolling shutter seems much better in HFR situations.

I do have to say though, if you want to shoot in S35 mode then why not get a camera that just does that?


squig said:
A reviewer said you can assign the record button to a custom button.

Has anyone noticed any IQ/noise improvement over the A7s in APS-C mode? 1080p highlight aliasing gone?

Despite the improvements we've still gotta put up with circa 2008 macroblocking and rolling shutter. Sony could easily increase the bitrate and include a 2.39:1 shooting mode to reduce the roller shutter. This is a camera primarily marketed for video capture after all.
Click to expand...

IMHO because i see better rolling shutter performance in HFR which has less compression overall then i do wonder if the limiting factor is actually the compression stage, not the read out stage. But all these VBR formats exhibit blocking, even ProRes in certain situations. Only when we can pull RAW off these things will that be a none issue. Also if you're just hand holding or moving slowly the internal quality will be very good. It's whilst panning across a subject that is detailed and moving - that's when these things fail.

cheers
Paul
 
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