Sony a33/a55/a569/a580 disaster

Vitaliy, what about the fact that it records 1080p @ 29.97 video embedded in 1080i? Won’t TVs see that as true 1080i @ 59.94 fields per second video and try to deinterlace it?

How are they encapsulating the video in 1080i? Are they actually doubling each line of each frame?

I uploaded an unedited sample of the A55 1080i video to youtube and it had what appeared to be interlaced artifacts(Small Black horizontal lines) when played back.

I still don’t understand why we have interlaced video in a progressive display world?
 
I was surprised that the dpreview did not emphasize some of the more glaring drawbacks to the new system in its very positive review of the Sony. I'm assuming that it takes good pictures. Low ISO photos seemed a bit improved, but noise reduction reduces detail. What really annoys me, however, is that the video implementation seems just bolted on. What good is fast focus if it looks like a mistake? Grrr. And dudes, how hard is it to give me a choice of frame rates. On the one hand, you can say, well, Sony finally put some video in their cameras. But on the other hand, it looks like they are clueless as far as video. Have to wait and see what the video looks like, but the lack of controls is truly annoying.
 
It's called "Progressive segmented Frame" format (PsF), hopefully the last misguided attempt to accommodate the interlaced video broadcast standards of the previous century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_segmented_Frame

The format used by Sony in the NEX is technically designated 29.97PsF. In the USA, the primary culprits responsible for prolonging the wretched 1080i shibboleth are CBS, NBC, and The CW.
 
I also wonder about the “1/3EV loss in light absorption for the sensor because of the translucent mirror. I know 1/3 of a stop is not a big deal. However, I wonder what it does for their reported ISOs? There is no telling what the actual ISO is.

I looked at some of the stats for the pictures from the A55 and their shutter speeds looked a little slow for the ISO numbers they were using. However, I can’t really tell because I don’t know what lighting was used.

Does the A55 have a simple continuous auto focus or can it actually track a subject during filming. I have seen several examples of the auto focus but it seems more like the camera just uses a constant auto focus as opposed to one that dynamic tracks the subjects.
 
Does anyone know if it is possible to lock-up the mirror during shooting/filming for use with MF lenses? Or maybe even a Contrast Detect focus mode with mirror locked up? (The latter is probably wishful thinking, but the former should certainly be a feature - why not get that extra 1/3 EV if you don't need the mirror down for anything?)

Also, although it may only be equal to 1/3EV loss, throwing away 30% of light seems like an awful lot. I don't really understand how to quantify this type of stuff, but it seems to me that designing a sensor that has 30% less noise is needed to get the same result as having no mirror. That seems like a big technological leap. But perhaps it's not? When review sites talk about a newer sensor having (for example) 1 to 2 stops better ISO performance than an old one, are they really saying the new sensor has bettwen a HALF to a QUARTER the amount of noise of the old sensor? That seems massive to me! Is that really how fast and far sensors improve?
 
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I see Sony actions as follows.
They get brood of kittens. Future champions. Amazing looks.
Sadly, one night,very bad marketing manager got all kittens in the sack and went to nearest river. And throw them into the river.
For their luck, good engineer seen this nightmare.
But it took him 15 minutes to get poor kittens out of the cold water.
And still only four survived.
Even with intensive therapy all now have very serious сhronic diseases.
Two of them couldn't eat as their jaw muscles do not work. So, they inserted translucent mirror inside their throat and said that so it was.
But they signed agreement to present them in August, and all other competitors will have kittens (sadly, no one of them experimented with cold water).
Poor kittens...
 
I bet that few users who will be swayed by 10 fps shooting speed will actually get to use it. But one thing that seems like a serious drawback with this camera are the purported operational delays. Big no-no in this day and age. And, this being the dvxuser forum -- lack of manual controls, no 24 fps, even after pull-down removal. Meh...

The translucent mirror is an interesting concept for it allows both contrast and phase-detect autofocus methods to be employed. But since we are in the GH1 sub-forum :), not that interesting as translucent or not the mirror still takes up space and adds flange distance, so not the technology will see in mirrorless cams. What we may see is the hybrid system employed by Fuji. With that said, I personally think that focus speed is not one of the areas where GH1 needs improvement. More like focus control. Touch-focus in G2 is interesting, but not that interesting on 3" touchpad. Show me an combo cam that allows touch-focus in video mode on iPad-size external device and I'll be the first in line to buy it, no matter who makes it :)
 
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I see Sony actions as follows.
They get brood of kittens. Future champions. Amazing looks.
Sadly, one night,very bad marketing manager got all kittens in the sack and went to nearest river. And throw them into the river.
For their luck, good engineer seen this nightmare.
But it took him 15 minutes to get poor kittens out of the cold water.
And still only four survived.
Even with intensive therapy all now have very serious сhronic diseases.
Two of them couldn't eat as their jaw muscles do not work. So, they inserted translucent mirror inside their throat and said that so it was.
But they signed agreement to present them in August, and all other competitors will have kittens (sadly, no one of them experimented with cold water).
Poor kittens...
Click to expand...

lol

I think they just fed the kittens to my neighbor's Bull Dog!
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
I see Sony actions as follows.
They get brood of kittens. Future champions. Amazing looks.
Sadly, one night,very bad marketing manager got all kittens in the sack and went to nearest river. And throw them into the river.
For their luck, good engineer seen this nightmare.
But it took him 15 minutes to get poor kittens out of the cold water.
And still only four survived.
Even with intensive therapy all now have very serious сhronic diseases.
Two of them couldn't eat as their jaw muscles do not work. So, they inserted translucent mirror inside their throat and said that so it was.
But they signed agreement to present them in August, and all other competitors will have kittens (sadly, no one of them experimented with cold water).
Poor kittens...
Click to expand...


that was gold! ha.....that should be turned into a motivational poster! dont drown your kittens =)
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
I see Sony actions as follows.
They get brood of kittens. Future champions. Amazing looks.
Sadly, one night,very bad marketing manager got all kittens in the sack and went to nearest river. And throw them into the river.
For their luck, good engineer seen this nightmare.
But it took him 15 minutes to get poor kittens out of the cold water.
And still only four survived.
Even with intensive therapy all now have very serious сhronic diseases.
Two of them couldn't eat as their jaw muscles do not work. So, they inserted translucent mirror inside their throat and said that so it was.
But they signed agreement to present them in August, and all other competitors will have kittens (sadly, no one of them experimented with cold water).
Poor kittens...
Click to expand...
HaHa! You have the soul of a poet! As someone else said, what an analogy!
 
I think the problem boils down to one thing, these companies DON'T want to put the kind of features in that a small group of users wants. Instead they want that small group of users to spend a fortune on expensive pro-gear. That way they will sell more pro-gear which has a higher profit margin. It just doesn't make sense for a company to offer pro-level features on a consumer product, as who would buy the over price pro-gear if that was the case?

Sony is in a way very much like Apple, they just give their customers the features they think their customers need and ignores the fact that some people want more features. Sadly it seems like all the camera/camcorder manufacturers are so far up their own backsides that they haven't realised that people are asking for specific features that they just aren't willing to deliver.

If anything, the GH1 hack has proven that the hardware is more than capable to deliver, yet there's no real incentive for the companies that makes these products to offer those features in a retail, consumer or even prosumer level product.
 
thelostswede said:
I think the problem boils down to one thing, these companies DON'T want to put the kind of features in that a small group of users wants. Instead they want that small group of users to spend a fortune on expensive pro-gear. That way they will sell more pro-gear which has a higher profit margin. It just doesn't make sense for a company to offer pro-level features on a consumer product, as who would buy the over price pro-gear if that was the case?....
Click to expand...

Here again I think we have a misunderstanding. Sony Consumer and Sony Professional are two distinct divisions. I don't think the one is interested in what the other is doing, except perhaps in sharing some technologies. And I say perhaps.

What many videographers seem to forget is that shooting video/film is a much harder proposition than shooting pictures. It takes a much greater learning curve to get something good in a video shoot, compared to what would constitute a good photo in terms of composition, lighting, focus, etc. It certainly takes more technical knowledge, that's for sure.

So my feeling is that Sony is selling a photo camera with the obligatory video feature (they're not that blind :tongue:), designed for people who don't know too much about fps, shutter speeds, etc., but who still want to take videos of their kids or vacations, while taking superior photos to what the current micro 43 camera presently do.

The camera is just not designed for the "DSLR" auteur.
 
After the jello here comes the jitter, brought to us by Sony. With no manual control and an AF that works only wide open, day light video from these camera will be awful. We will all look like in gladiators movie, but from start to finish. Sony will get some class action from people having headache or nausea after watching the videos :-)

When I see all these reviews (half baked) glossing about the Sony, you have to ask you what are the seriousness of the reviewers. An example below where you can see the effect even if the weather is cloudy, imagine when it will be sunny, 1/4000 to 1/8000 shutter video anyone.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKed3N4OZIY
 
stoneinapond said:
Here again I think we have a misunderstanding. Sony Consumer and Sony Professional are two distinct divisions. I don't think the one is interested in what the other is doing, except perhaps in sharing some technologies. And I say perhaps.
Click to expand...


Surely, sir, you jest...

The distinction between the two divisions has been getting fuzzier in recent years. Sometimes the engineers get away with it and release a very good "comsumer" product which suddenly is a threat to the (cheaper) models in the pro range. Remember how quickly the HC1 was pulled off the market...while the ridiculously overpriced "pro" version (the A1) is still being sold.

Sadly, Sony are really getting a reputation for being the "technology drip-feed" leaders of the world. Their designers/engineers are capable of great things...but the Marketing department keeps "drowning the kittens". :(
 
I just want to clarify logic behind Sony marketing "serial killers".
On 1/2.3" sensor compacts auto everything video is pretty acceptable.
So, they just get same video and image chips, added new APS-C sensor, huge Linux kernel, slow CPU and famous Nokia "GUI masters" and made NEX5. Generally from all this stuff only sensor is good.
All other must be completely redesigned.
Next, they see big marketing success of NEX. Plus problems with E mount lenses.
So, they throw out normal E mount EVIL cameras and replace them with A55 and A33.
First and last of their kind. Half dead kittens.
But they'll sell good amount of them. Without question.
Why? Because press and average Joe are stupid.
They look at features and test features. Not real user tasks.
Look at A550. Normally it's kit locally costs more or same than K20D had been last year.
It have better high ISO, higher burst fps.
But as soon as you start actual shooting you realise that it has much worse usability for any normal task. Construction, viewfinder, controls are hard to compare.
How we can change it?
Solution is quite simple - press must be prevented to make ANY money from advertisements and get them from subscribers only. Consequences of this will be quite dramatic.
 
Vitaliy, please don't take this the wrong way, but I guess you don't know all that much about how it is to work as a journalist?

As long as you have some kind of integrity you'd never sell out to advertisers and in most cases, at least with regards to reputable media, the journalists have no connection what so ever with ad sales. Sure, the big publishers are always going to have ad sales people trying to influence you, but it's quite easy to get rid of them.

Having worked for various large IT publications I can tell you that just getting money from the readers would mean that each reader would have to pay $100 a month if a decent size publication would be able to survive based on readership alone. The idea of advertising is that the content is free, or at least very affordable. Increase that price and readers will shun away from your publication.

Now a good journalist with integrity would never accept bribes or be told what to write about a product. However, there are of course a lot of people out there that are more than willing to accept all sorts of things for a favourable review. Luckily these journalists/publications are usually found out sooner or later and shunned by readers.

I'm a PC hack that got into photography and video making as a necessity for my line of work, not because it's my hobby or something I want to do for a living. It places me in a very different situation from most people here. But it doesn't make me any less pissed off with the way these companies make products, as it seems like there are way too many potential products out there that fall short mostly due to either poor software or the manufacturers imposed limitations as they feel that the product would be "too good" if they didn't restrict them.

Sure, there are some standards that they try to adhere to, but many of these so called standards are again held back for no apparent good reason except the fact that the manufacturers often also sell pro gear that they don't want consumer products to compete with. Call it a conspiracy theory if you want, but it is a fact in just about anything related to computers and electronics.
 
My proposition is based on my own expirience (in life and during looking inside press and TV).
As I can compare press and books in USSR and their degradation.
It do not mean that someone comes to journalists or authors and tell them that to write.
Most fo the time they just know this themselves as they want to eat something :-)
As for the $100 figures. It is wrong assumption. In reality 60-70% of all journalists will be forced to find other work and best press just increases circulation with slightly higher price.
 
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