Sony 8K CineAlta rumor
- Thread starter BlackWolf
- Start date
Viddovation
Veteran
Eh. I'm sure these companies always have guys somewhere developing prototype to do boundary pushing stuff like this. And I suppose with RED hyping 6k, there may be a desire to exceed them on it, but for my money, we've got enough pixels for most applications, and adding more is only going to put more headache on post. Practically, what we need is for them to work out the workflow bugs at 4k. I'd also put higher bit depth, faster overcranking, and plenty of other things over 8k.
Japan is launching the first 8K broadcast next year... with the 2020 Tokyo Olympics being shot in 8K entirely.
Besides, Sony isn't interested in playing a second fiddle to Red (i.e., Weapon) or other manufacturers like Ikegami.
That said, I would think that F-65/top of the line Sony pro camera will be based on the 50 MPX medium format sensor that is currently in Pentax 645D and Hasselblad cameras, to match ARRI Alexa 65. The rumored camera in that link that is supposed to look like F-55 will indeed be F-55 II, with an FF rather than a MF size sensor.
Viddovation
Veteran
That's not surprising in the slightest, on either count. Imaging technologies are on of Japan's premier exports, and the Olympics is a world stage. The first televised Olympic games were in 1936, despite there being potentially as few as 2000 television receivers worldwide at that time.
The first time a portion of the Olympics were broadcast in color was the Tokyo hosted 1964 Summer games. The color broadcasts were limited to Japan. While I don't have a figure on how many color tv receivers Japan had at the time, for comparison sake, in 1964 only 3.1% of American households had a color television.
So, there's a history of doing this sort of bounary pushing at the Olympics.
I don't doubt these companies will keep pushing boundaries. I'm merely commenting that those priorities aren't really going to match with what is practical for the rest of us.
But hey, if this means I can get a F65 kit entire for $5k in 2017 - let's do it!
Harry Lime
Well-known member
8k? Really?
Actors will hate it and if they have enough pull it will be banned from the production. Don't laugh it's happened.
Tiffen will make a killing selling more diffusion filters.
Harddisk manufacturers will rejoice.
Vintage glass prices will skyrocket.
Everything will be lit with soft light.
Nobody really needs more than 4k for a feature.
I can see a place for 8k on an IMAX project.
Actors will hate it and if they have enough pull it will be banned from the production. Don't laugh it's happened.
Tiffen will make a killing selling more diffusion filters.
Harddisk manufacturers will rejoice.
Vintage glass prices will skyrocket.
Everything will be lit with soft light.
Nobody really needs more than 4k for a feature.
I can see a place for 8k on an IMAX project.
Darren Levine
Veteran
they must not be listening to us shooters. anyone with respect for their images shouldn't have to live with less than 16k
combatentropy
Veteran
K is not free. More K means:
- less dynamic range
- less low-light sensitivity
- less likelihood of global shutter
- fewer minutes per card
- more dollars per minute
- fewer co-shooters
- fewer compatible software programs, hardware set-ups, and post houses
- slower editing
- more expensive editing
Which is fine. All of which can be overcome. Some of which is less of a headache than others. However, you must ask yourself, for what advantage?
(1) Closest comfortable viewing distance and (2) the resolution of the human eye, coalesce to form (3) a ceiling for practical benefits of more K.
- For 75% of all uses of video, 480p is enough
- For 97%, 1080p is enough
- For 99.999%, 4K is enough
(Yes, 73.6% of all statistics are made up, and I made up these, but . . . they're close.
- less dynamic range
- less low-light sensitivity
- less likelihood of global shutter
- fewer minutes per card
- more dollars per minute
- fewer co-shooters
- fewer compatible software programs, hardware set-ups, and post houses
- slower editing
- more expensive editing
Which is fine. All of which can be overcome. Some of which is less of a headache than others. However, you must ask yourself, for what advantage?
(1) Closest comfortable viewing distance and (2) the resolution of the human eye, coalesce to form (3) a ceiling for practical benefits of more K.
- For 75% of all uses of video, 480p is enough
- For 97%, 1080p is enough
- For 99.999%, 4K is enough
(Yes, 73.6% of all statistics are made up, and I made up these, but . . . they're close.
dmitrizigany
Veteran
240fps at 4K is pretty cool though 
but here I am hoping to be able to afford an Odyssey 7Q so I can shoot 4K in 60p. But as even that seems unlikely I'm hoping the Shogun will support 2K at 100fps at least
The rumour also said that it would come at a price that would surprise many.
A really high end camera, at a (relatively speaking) affordable price makes perfect sense for Sony. They probably want to break in more in the RED/Alexa segments of the market...
but here I am hoping to be able to afford an Odyssey 7Q so I can shoot 4K in 60p. But as even that seems unlikely I'm hoping the Shogun will support 2K at 100fps at least
The rumour also said that it would come at a price that would surprise many.
A really high end camera, at a (relatively speaking) affordable price makes perfect sense for Sony. They probably want to break in more in the RED/Alexa segments of the market...
Samsung announced a 16 TB SSD today. I guess that's like an hour of 8K raw.
PS. 8K is great for sports but, for the narrative, it will probably be downsampled down to 4K, with the 8K archive.
starcentral
Veteran
I'm going to wait it out for 16k, until then my F55 does me fine.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
I do think Sony do want to upgrade the f65 soon, looking at the market, f55, rivals, and the company's overall strategy. 8K or less, who cares, if it's 8k with better everything vs f65 then bring on.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
Sensor performance is great, making its way up to being crowned the best ever produced but needs more testing for assurance (raw stills sensor performance). Overheating is a body issue (size, processor, IBIS), but if Sony had no care for size/noise/storage and wanted to build a camera around the a7rii sensor that shoots at full 42mp 16bit raw 60p without overheating they'd do it but it would probably a small-car-sized water-cooled and fans with massive processors, gigantic media, and power draw of a small Egyptian village in a minute :happy:
I wonder if they're going to use the same FF 42mp 8K sensor tweaked or a new 8K s35 sensor.
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JMtheDP
Veteran
People have only just about got around to handling the F65's files with relative ease, I cannot imagine a genuine 8K sensor is going to make anything any easier.
I also find it surprising that they would use a sensor derived from their stills camera - traditionally the top-of-the-line Sony sensor has been something rather special.
Still, will be interesting to see it when it appears. Anyway - an 8K sensor in some respects is ideal, because it provides the oversampling needed to make a 4K picture which uses the format properly.
I also find it surprising that they would use a sensor derived from their stills camera - traditionally the top-of-the-line Sony sensor has been something rather special.
Still, will be interesting to see it when it appears. Anyway - an 8K sensor in some respects is ideal, because it provides the oversampling needed to make a 4K picture which uses the format properly.
Let's hope it's a new sensor using similar tech but developed for motion. Last thing we need is a high end cinema camera based on a cheap DSLR sensor.
alaskacameradude
Veteran
YES!!! Now is my chance. As predicted by the 4K crowd, my business is totally
failing because I did not jump into 4K, and instead continued to shoot HD. Now,
I can leapfrog all the 4K guys and jump from HD to 8K. Then I can laugh in glee as
the 4K crowd attempts to tell the consumer that the human eye can't tell the difference
between 4k and 8K anyways. I'll just point at my camera with the big 8K sticker on the
side, and all their clients will come over to me, because everyone knows that 8 is bigger
and better than 4.
failing because I did not jump into 4K, and instead continued to shoot HD. Now,
I can leapfrog all the 4K guys and jump from HD to 8K. Then I can laugh in glee as
the 4K crowd attempts to tell the consumer that the human eye can't tell the difference
between 4k and 8K anyways. I'll just point at my camera with the big 8K sticker on the
side, and all their clients will come over to me, because everyone knows that 8 is bigger
and better than 4.
indiawilds
Veteran
YES!!! Now is my chance. As predicted by the 4K crowd, my business is totally
failing because I did not jump into 4K, and instead continued to shoot HD. Now,
I can leapfrog all the 4K guys and jump from HD to 8K. Then I can laugh in glee as
the 4K crowd attempts to tell the consumer that the human eye can't tell the difference
between 4k and 8K anyways. I'll just point at my camera with the big 8K sticker on the
side, and all their clients will come over to me, because everyone knows that 8 is bigger
and better than 4.
You remind me of a situation when I was studying in Class II. Our results were declared. I was 8th. My friend was 1st. I had no clue why the teacher was happy for my friend, as I thought 8 was better than 1. I told my friend and he too was thinking that 8 is better than 1. Sorry for being off topic.
As we've talked about that on other threads, what is special about the top pro cameras aren't necessarily the sensors - a Nikon 810 Sony sensor has a higher resolution than Alexa 65 - but the signal processing of the data gathered by the sensor. The dual readout is what gave Alexa its dynamic range and now a $17,000 Canon C300 MKII has the same dual readout and the similar dynamic range. The sensor tech itself isn't irrelevant, obviously, but it's only a part of the puzzle.
There are 16K (133 MPX) cameras out already. Teledyne DALSA makes one for scanning and NHK is making/testing one for ... something else.
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