So guys (spelling and grammar)
- Thread starter Evan S
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On a related theme:
Bad quotes:
“I could care less”
“That’s just your opinion.”
“Just saying”
“Same difference”
‘It is what it is.’
“Stuck between a rock and a hard place”
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Well reptiles laid eggs long before any birds evolved, so the egg came first.
“Exact same.” or “Same exact.”
“Going forward…” As opposed to what?
“No offense, but… (insert offensive thing about person here) “
“Flogging a dead horse” Dear God! What a horrid image!
I always hated ‘Nice guys finish last’.
“How ironic?” drives me insane for the sole reason that 90% of the time people say it it isn’t ironic…at all.
Bad quotes:
“I could care less”
“That’s just your opinion.”
“Just saying”
“Same difference”
‘It is what it is.’
“Stuck between a rock and a hard place”
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Well reptiles laid eggs long before any birds evolved, so the egg came first.
“Exact same.” or “Same exact.”
“Going forward…” As opposed to what?
“No offense, but… (insert offensive thing about person here) “
“Flogging a dead horse” Dear God! What a horrid image!
I always hated ‘Nice guys finish last’.
“How ironic?” drives me insane for the sole reason that 90% of the time people say it it isn’t ironic…at all.
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
I recommend the book Eats, Shoots and Leaves.
It's not just about whether someone equates your grammar on a forum to your ability to do other things. It's also, (perhaps primarily), about whether they are understanding what you are communicating. Effective communication is difficult enough when we all use the same rules. Arbitrary misuse of language norms only heightens that challenge. Different words mean different things and different forms of punctuation serve different purposes. A lack of attention to that can actually change the meaning of what you are trying to relate.
As I often say to my lovely bride: "I have no idea what you mean, I only know what you say." Just because it makes sense to you, doesn't mean someone else will understand it. It drives me crazy when people say "Well, you know what I mean." No, I don't.
Effective communication is, in fact, the entire purpose of grammatical and spelling norms. They aren't there just for fun.
It's not just about whether someone equates your grammar on a forum to your ability to do other things. It's also, (perhaps primarily), about whether they are understanding what you are communicating. Effective communication is difficult enough when we all use the same rules. Arbitrary misuse of language norms only heightens that challenge. Different words mean different things and different forms of punctuation serve different purposes. A lack of attention to that can actually change the meaning of what you are trying to relate.
As I often say to my lovely bride: "I have no idea what you mean, I only know what you say." Just because it makes sense to you, doesn't mean someone else will understand it. It drives me crazy when people say "Well, you know what I mean." No, I don't.
Effective communication is, in fact, the entire purpose of grammatical and spelling norms. They aren't there just for fun.
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Hawk Teflon
Veteran
on the same note: Irregardless
And there, my friend, is the irony.
This is the reason I cannot stand "Ironic" by Alanis Morrisette. Every example cited throughout the song boils down to unfortunate luck.
diego1235467
Well-known member
Here's a fun one. A class mate was told by the teacher to behave. He replied by saying "I am being have."
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Sorry Evan:
If I see people post using that, I will have to smack them. Hard. That's not even TXT or Ebonics or Pidgin any other bastardized version of English, that's jibberish. Oh, wait a minute, we have that bastard Prince to thank for this, don't we? I would Die 4U indeed.
Thanks for edumacating me on that ;-)
D
It's actually pronounced "LEET" (1337 = LEET). It has nothing to do with the Artist Formerly Known as the Artist Formerly Known as Prince. It came from hackers, and there's a really crappy attitude behind it. "LEET" is a bastardized form of "elite," and it is a lingo originally used by hackers to flaunt their superiority to we the "commoners."
Even the occasional "n00b" that pops up around here is from LEETSPEAK.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Thanks too Cranky, that was fascinating, I learned something new today from DVXUser, as usual.
As far as the Leet language, I guess it is revenge of the nerds.
D
As far as the Leet language, I guess it is revenge of the nerds.
D
diego1235467
Well-known member
1 5|)33|< |3[-7
Sorry, I had to do it
Sorry, I had to do it
leepback
Well-known member
Hey I'm pretty bad at "gramma & spellin" myself but I think an effort should be made.
Many times I've had to re-read posts because I am not entirely sure of their intended meaning and even some I have absolutely no idea of at all. Words that sound the same often have entirely different meanings (e.g. then/than) and I'm sure many people do not even know the difference. Others, maybe because of the nature of the web, the speed at which they type and perhaps a little laziness added in, just let it ride.
I'm not sure which side of this divide the truth really lies but I'm afraid the more these 'mistakes' are allowed to proliferate the more they gain currency until finally they are imbedded into our language. Should this be policed and if so by who?
Along the lines of quotes that irritate...."I aint done nuffin"
Which probably translates to "I haven't done nothing" which is a double negative and totally the opposite of it's intended meaning. Somehow this misrepresentation is becoming the norm and people don't even realise the stupidity that they are mouthing. I'm sure there are many other examples.
Many times I've had to re-read posts because I am not entirely sure of their intended meaning and even some I have absolutely no idea of at all. Words that sound the same often have entirely different meanings (e.g. then/than) and I'm sure many people do not even know the difference. Others, maybe because of the nature of the web, the speed at which they type and perhaps a little laziness added in, just let it ride.
I'm not sure which side of this divide the truth really lies but I'm afraid the more these 'mistakes' are allowed to proliferate the more they gain currency until finally they are imbedded into our language. Should this be policed and if so by who?
Along the lines of quotes that irritate...."I aint done nuffin"
Which probably translates to "I haven't done nothing" which is a double negative and totally the opposite of it's intended meaning. Somehow this misrepresentation is becoming the norm and people don't even realise the stupidity that they are mouthing. I'm sure there are many other examples.
ullanta
Veteran
Correct grammar is not always necessary... just attentive, careful communication. Bullet lists and such are often the best way to get information across.
What's important is that posters make a serious effort to make their ideas understandable and even pleasant to read.
People from the U.S. tend to be much more sensitive to grammatical criticism than people from other countries... perhaps because we tend not to speak many languages. It is culturally much more acceptable (and accepted) to correct people's grammar in other countries, and people are generally appreciative when corrected in language that is not their native tongue.
Sadly, language seems to be getting less precise and more ambiguous, which detracts from communication. Some people who correct grammar online are doing so as an effort at language preservation...
What's important is that posters make a serious effort to make their ideas understandable and even pleasant to read.
People from the U.S. tend to be much more sensitive to grammatical criticism than people from other countries... perhaps because we tend not to speak many languages. It is culturally much more acceptable (and accepted) to correct people's grammar in other countries, and people are generally appreciative when corrected in language that is not their native tongue.
Sadly, language seems to be getting less precise and more ambiguous, which detracts from communication. Some people who correct grammar online are doing so as an effort at language preservation...
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I still can't figure why the words, "lose" and "losing" have been replaced by the words "loose" and "loosing" as in "don't loose your sense of humor" and "I am loosing it" How can entire common words just disappear from the vernacular? And it's everywhere, I have seen it on news graphics, in print in well respected magazines and books and of course, on-line all over the place. Does not compute.
For ESL speakers, I guess I can see, they are similar but for native English speakers?
Dan
For ESL speakers, I guess I can see, they are similar but for native English speakers?
Dan
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Ullanta??????? Where have you been????
gco
Veteran
As you said earlier Dan, "We are devolving".
We continue to lose our language as well as our heritage. Few (not "less") people seem to care any more. Seeing texting format or blatant improper word usage, i.e. loose vs. lose, just screams ignorance to me. Language is a binder that holds a people together. Would be nice to hang on to that.
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
I am a stickler for language, but I might debate that we are devolving. Language is constantly in flux. I think we are talking about two different, but related, things.
1) There are people who are too ignorant, rushed, lazy, or misinformed to use proper language. This is not a new thing. I believe that the evidence of this phenomenon is merely more pronounced in the cyber-world. Twenty years ago we were not exposed to the type of unfiltered and participatory forums that we take for granted now. Poor spelling and grammar were always there, but there was a time when those who were not comfortable or capable in their writing skills simply did not write. Blogs, chatrooms and forums have changed that. I actually think that you could argue that large portions of the world are more literate now than at any other time in history.
2) Language evolves. I don't think that it ever devolves, because it adapts to its usage. In other words, we form language to the image where it is most effective. That is why in one of my earlier post I said that making your choice with intent is key. Someone typing "LOL" actually means something. I personally find such shorthand on a forum a bit annoying and juvenile, but I try to bear in mind that I am 43 and there is a whole generation of people to whom that shorthand is effective language. There is, (sometimes inaccurately), an assumption that the sender and recipient of that language have a common context. This evolution of language is ongoing through history, and is very different from someone being too careless or ignorant to check their spelling, punctuation and usage.
1) There are people who are too ignorant, rushed, lazy, or misinformed to use proper language. This is not a new thing. I believe that the evidence of this phenomenon is merely more pronounced in the cyber-world. Twenty years ago we were not exposed to the type of unfiltered and participatory forums that we take for granted now. Poor spelling and grammar were always there, but there was a time when those who were not comfortable or capable in their writing skills simply did not write. Blogs, chatrooms and forums have changed that. I actually think that you could argue that large portions of the world are more literate now than at any other time in history.
2) Language evolves. I don't think that it ever devolves, because it adapts to its usage. In other words, we form language to the image where it is most effective. That is why in one of my earlier post I said that making your choice with intent is key. Someone typing "LOL" actually means something. I personally find such shorthand on a forum a bit annoying and juvenile, but I try to bear in mind that I am 43 and there is a whole generation of people to whom that shorthand is effective language. There is, (sometimes inaccurately), an assumption that the sender and recipient of that language have a common context. This evolution of language is ongoing through history, and is very different from someone being too careless or ignorant to check their spelling, punctuation and usage.
IMHO, ESL speakers don't make mistakes like this. More often they have issues with agreement of tenses and with articles.
I am the ESL speaker. I mean, I am an ESL speaker.
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