So guys (spelling and grammar)

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Jim Brennan said:
I am a stickler for language, but I might debate that we are devolving. Language is constantly in flux. I think we are talking about two different, but related, things.
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Or as the linguists say, there is a constant interplay between "langue" and "parole"... langue being the formal definition of a language, and parole being the stuff spoken by real people on the street. Langue guides parole, but parole eventually shapes langue. Many principles guide (or are derived from) how this happens (such as linguistic efficiency)... but for us to communicate we need both the sticklers and the people who like to play with the rules. I'm not sure that the people who just don't care make a big difference...

...and, who can really distinguish between evolution and devolution in the short run?
 
gco said:
As you said earlier Dan, "We are devolving".
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Depends on what do you mean by "we". What percentage of population knew how to read and write, say, 300 years ago? Though I would expect "luzing" instead of "loosing".

This is an old hat, but if someone managed to miss it, here is one of the multiple versions: http://www.spellingsociety.org/news/media/spoofs.php

"Eventuli English vil be ze komon languag ov ze Komuniti, vich vil no longer be merly an ekonomik sifer, but a kominashun ov fre pepls."
 
It's a sad fact that the English language is ignored by people these days. For example, I'm an immigrant from Mexico City (moved here when I was 8). A few years ago I took the ACT test, and scored a 34 on the English portion, while most of my American schoolmates scored anywhere from an 8 to 27, with only a few scoring more than a 30.

This is probably nothing new, but I really feel like each generation is getting far worse.
 
Here's an excerpt from a college research paper that I was asked to proof the other day. The essay is an argument that TV is not harmful to society. This is a paragraph from the middle of the essay.

Some people say that television is the reason why kids these days are obese. When really children health is in the parents hands. Television benefits kids in many ways. For instance, it can teach children great values and lessons. It is not frying kids mind, unless the parents let it. Now days different television programs have it where parents can control what kids watch. There are aton of shows that inspire kids, help with exercise, and learning.
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That is copied and pasted directly from the essay as it was sent to me. I did my best to proof for technical issues (spelling, grammar and syntax), but for what was supposed to be a research paper there was surprisingly little research. The entire paper reads like the paragraph above.
 
Cranky said:
:) Use short phrases. Try avoiding sentences with multiple clauses. Never use passive voice.
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Okay, great... but what about incomplete sentences, spelling errors, and the complete lack of apostrophes in possessive form?
 
C2V said:
Okay, great... but what about incomplete sentences, spelling errors, and the complete lack of apostrophes in possessive form?
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I've lost hope. Yes, there are still institutions out there trying to do a good job, but we've removed all incentive for educators to do a good job. Kids, as a whole, are faring worse and worse on standardized tests.

I've had to read letters coming from HS students trying to earn scholarships to college (as a former college coach). Some of them spelled the name of the school incorrectly.

I sincerely considered writing a short essay a few years back called, "The Death of the Adverb." I believe that the function of the adverb is no longer taught in English courses. Sentence diagramming must have also gone out of favor now that we even have phones that correct our typing automatically.

It's an absolute travesty that native English speakers can graduate high school writing on a fourth grade level.
 
PerroneFord said:
I've lost hope. Yes, there are still institutions out there trying to do a good job, but we've removed all incentive for educators to do a good job. Kids, as a whole, are faring worse and worse on standardized tests.
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I believe that standardized tests are part of the problem. :beer:
 
Some day we'll all adopt Unifon and (since it's a phonetic alphabet) it will be impossible to mis-spell anything while using it.

Then there won't be much to pick apart but people's horrendous grammar.
 
Dude!

EDIT: Sorry, people who correct people have no life. What's worse? People who complain or people who complain about peole who complain?
 
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ChipG, I feel sad you feel this way. No one feels that their "life is better" because of this thread. This includes me. My intent was to assist those individuals who did not have a true medical issue. Dyslexia is a confirmed problem. And easily identified. Bad grammar does not conform to the parameters of dyslexia. Laziness cannot be attributed as dyslexia and the other way around. Or are you saying that everyone that cannot deem it a worthwhile effort to use spellcheck is a dyslexic individual? I hope not. But then, I could be wrong. It could be that everyone that types poorly and cannot put a sentence together correctly is a dyslexic individual. But that really demeans your condition, as dyslexia is a confirmed medical condition, but laziness is not. Or are you saying laziness is synonymous with dyslexia, rest assured, I don't. There is a huge difference and extremely apparent.

Inversion of letters and numbers is one thing. Bad grammar and shortening of the English language is another.
 
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˙dn ʇɐɥʇ sʞɔıd oɥʍ əəs sʇəl 'ɹəɯɯɐɹƃ pooƃ ɥʇıʍ ʇdıɹɔs ɐ əʇıɹʍ əsɐəld ]əʇonb/[˙ɹəɥʇouɐ sı əƃɐnƃuɐl ɥsılƃuə əɥʇ ɟo ƃuıuəʇɹoɥs puɐ ɹɐɯɯɐɹƃ pɐq]5188381;pɹɐuɹəq ɔop=əʇonb[
 
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ChipG said:
˙dn ʇɐɥʇ sʞɔıd oɥʍ əəs sʇəl 'ɹəɯɯɐɹƃ pooƃ ɥʇıʍ ʇdıɹɔs ɐ əʇıɹʍ əsɐəld ]əʇonb/[˙ɹəɥʇouɐ sı əƃɐnƃuɐl ɥsılƃuə əɥʇ ɟo ƃuıuəʇɹoɥs puɐ ɹɐɯɯɐɹƃ pɐq]5188381;pɹɐuɹəq ɔop=əʇonb[
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Nice trick, but, yes "I can pick it up". But tell me this, you have an influential film-maker interested in speaking with you, but your emails look like what you just posted, or are full of typos and/or grammatical mistakes and your "competition" can compose their emails professionally and accurately. Who will be given more consideration? Please tell me honestly, considering we are not in an idyllic world where only the ideas are judged and not how you comport yourself.

Personally, I have not experienced that in the world of professional videography or in any other career. Life is unfair, and I understand this. So I do my best to overcome the problems I experience and encounter. Lack of education or plain laziness does not equate to dyslexia in any world. That is a naked truth that some people need to realize. If you have not been diagnosed with dyslexia, do not claim it as an excuse.

Oh, BTW, have I mentioned that I AM diagnosed with dyslexia, but have been tested to have an IQ of over 168 numerous times. Yet, my dyslexia is easily controlled by review and spell check, at least when posting online? The tools ARE available to correct the mistakes I make. I work hard to overcome this problem. But I refuse to attribute my deficiencies to a medical condition that I have as an excuse. That is my responsibility to overcome, not for others to overcome for me or on my behalf.

Now, do you understand the vehemence I am expressing regarding this discussion? Making excuses is a tool of the lazy. Show others you are willing to at least make an attempt to overcome your problems, not just say to them "hey, I have problems, accept them."

So your argument of
This thread really hurts me, I have no less then 15 friends with dislecksia, it's not on purpose
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does not hold much water. Even the word "dyslexia" was identified by my spellcheck as needing correcting in the way I typed it originally. Spellcheck is my friend, is it yours?

Let me ask you this, why do you come to DVXUser.com? This is a serious question for you, ChipG. Think about this for a bit before you answer.
 
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It has been pointed out various times in this thread that the concerns do not stem from those people who struggle with language, but rather those that do not respect the ramifications of their language choices.

My son has a rather severe disability that has an incredible impact on both his oral and his written language skills. I see his struggles, and they are absolutely not what is being referred to in this thread.

I also don't think that anyone has hinted at feeling that they are "better" than anyone else.
 
Well, like I've said, I try to do my best when writing. I do not always take the time to proof-read things I write on the Internet. Sometimes I am typing so quickly that sometimes my thoughts are far passed what I am typing at the moment. I know that sounds silly but when you are thinking like that and trying to type you get ahead of yourself and do not bother to proof-read for mistakes like grammar, etc. Now if I was writing a college paper - then you better bet your ass I am going to revise and edit. It is also easy to post when the only thing I have to do after typing a post is hit tab+enter.
 
I think that the reason some people get wound up over mutilated English is that the language is a scalpel - and if you appreciate that, it can be painful to see it used like a dull broken hacksaw.
 
Evan S said:
Well, like I've said, I try to do my best when writing. I do not always take the time to proof-read things I write on the Internet. Sometimes I am typing so quickly that sometimes my thoughts are far passed what I am typing at the moment. I know that sounds silly but when you are thinking like that and trying to type you get ahead of yourself and do not bother to proof-read for mistakes like grammar, etc. Now if I was writing a college paper - then you better bet your ass I am going to revise and edit. It is also easy to post when the only thing I have to do after typing a post is hit tab+enter.
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There are a million excuses for poor spelling and bad grammar. I don't generally proofread what I type. But the lessons learned early in life were reinforced, and thus it is not a struggle for me to spell well, or use correct grammar even when I am in a hurry. When you spend your time being sloppy, it takes considerable effort to do it well when needed.

Excellence is a habit.



By the way:

Sometimes I am typing so quickly that sometimes my thoughts are far passed what I am typing at the moment.
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That would have earned you a "F" in my 5th grade class. The nuns were quite strict. Using sometimes twice in the same sentence... Fail. Typing passed when the correct form is "past"... Fail. Not putting a comma after quickly... letter grade.

I don't point this out to mock you or seem mean. Merely to illustrate a point.
 
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