C300: Small Jib for C300 Mark II

[Eric Coughlin]

I'm trying to figure out the jib situation for my C300 Mark II. I've got the Kessler Jib Pocket Traveler right now, which works pretty well with the C100 Mark II which is about 6-7 lbs with my setup, and with the 701 head I use on the jib, that puts it at 8-9 lbs. The jib is rated for up to 10 lbs. With the C100 Mark II, it's a little shaky, but I've managed to get good shots with it and it's so small and sets up so easily that I actually use it (unlike the larger Hollywood Microdolly Jib which I have but never use).

My C300 Mark II setup is 10-11 lbs, which with the 701 head would be 12-13 lbs, which is above the listed capacity of the jib. So what's a good small jib for the C300 Mark II that sets up quickly?

I have a light 5 lb carbon fiber Gitzo tripod legs (rated for 55lbs ) which I like to use which fit into my Hollywood Microdolly track. At 12 lbs for the camera and head, figure on 15-20 lbs of counterweight, then that would leave the max weight of the jib itself at around 20 lbs before going over capacity on the tripod. The Pocket Jib Traveler is only 5.5 lbs.

I've heard people on here recommend the Long Valley Seven Jib before. I don't see any specs on their site for the weight of the jib or if it has a pan lock. What are some other good options for quick one-man-band setups?


Or maybe I should just use the C100 Mark II on the Pocket Jib Traveler. Or use a field monitor (which means more setup time, and I typically handle the Pocket Jib from the front, not the back where a field monitor would be mounted) so then I can take the LCD off of the C300 Mark II which should make the weight more manageable on the Pocket Jib. Or, get a Canon 1DX Mark II with all the better auto-focus features, internal 4:2:2, and 4K, and use that for jib shots with the Pocket Jib Traveler.

 

[Doug_EX]

I'm trying to figure out the jib situation for my C300 Mark II. I've got the Kessler Jib Pocket Traveler right now, which works pretty well with the C100 Mark II which is about 6-7 lbs with my setup, and with the 701 head I use on the jib, that puts it at 8-9 lbs. The jib is rated for up to 10 lbs. With the C100 Mark II, it's a little shaky, but I've managed to get good shots with it and it's so small and sets up so easily that I actually use it (unlike the larger Hollywood Microdolly Jib which I have but never use).My C300 Mark II setup is 10-11 lbs, which with the 701 head would be 12-13 lbs, which is above the listed capacity of the jib. So what's a good small jib for the C300 Mark II that sets up quickly?I have a light 5 lb carbon fiber Gitzo tripod legs (rated for 55lbs ) which I like to use which fit into my Hollywood Microdolly track. At 12 lbs for the camera and head, figure on 15-20 lbs of counterweight, then that would leave the max weight of the jib itself at around 20 lbs before going over capacity on the tripod. The Pocket Jib Traveler is only 5.5 lbs.I've heard people on here recommend the Long Valley Seven Jib before. I don't see any specs on their site for the weight of the jib or if it has a pan lock. What are some other good options for quick one-man-band setups?Or maybe I should just use the C100 Mark II on the Pocket Jib Traveler. Or use a field monitor (which means more setup time, and I typically handle the Pocket Jib from the front, not the back where a field monitor would be mounted) so then I can take the LCD off of the C300 Mark II which should make the weight more manageable on the Pocket Jib. Or, get a Canon 1DX Mark II with all the better auto-focus features, internal 4:2:2, and 4K, and use that for jib shots with the Pocket Jib Traveler.

Portajib Standard jib or the Traveller. Portajib makes wonderful equipment.

 

[puredrifting]

I've got a PortaJib Traveler, have had it for a LONG time (15 years?). Great company, I had some small issues, took it to their shop in Hollywood, they fixed it while I waited. Much great weight capacity than any of the other toy jibs, the Traveler can easily support a loaded up RED or F55. Downsides are they take a while to setup and the entire setup is heavy. But there is no free ride with jibs, small and light = flimsy, larger and heavier = more solid, steady shots. Unfortunately I hardly ever use it, I just rarely schedule shoots where we have enough time to set it up and use it.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Unfortunately I hardly ever use it, I just rarely schedule shoots where we have enough time to set it up and use it.

Right. I'd rather have a quick to setup flimsy jib that takes multiple takes to get a smooth shot than a solid jib which I never use because it takes too long to setup. I already have a larger jib that I never use, the Hollywood Microdolly Jib. Waste of money. I need to put it on Ebay.

How long would you say it takes to setup?

I can typically setup the Kessler Pocket Jib Traveler in 2-5 minutes depending on if I've already got the various tripod adapters on it or not.

Also, since I'm generally a one-man-band, I'd want something light enough that I can move and lift it by myself without disassembling it. Can you do that with the PortaJib Traveler or is moving it a two person job?

 

[puredrifting]

Hey Eric:

There is some truth to that. The Traveler does need a two or three person crew to use efficiently. With practice, you are at 10-15 minutes to build and setup. You can move it yourself with the camera is light enough but you would have to remove the counterweights, move, then re-balance, which is a PITA. This thing was made to hold shoulder mount three chip cameras. Small, light single chip cameras and DSLRs didn't exist when this was conceived. These days, if I shot more things that required movement, I would buy a Ronin M than deal with a short jib. This was also designed for shooting homes with 8' ceilings and smaller rooms, it doesn't really have very much extension. I used it to shoot the PBS Andy Williams special when he was alive, one man banded it at his theater back in Branson, it was perfect for that, but these days, it's just sitting in my gear locker. I should sell it but same problem, who would want to buy it, it's outdated.

So the Hollywood MicroDolly ain't that great? I looked at those when I bought this, but at the time, I had clients who wanted me to put the Varicam and other broadcast three chip cameras on this so it was perfect for it's era. To me, I think gimbals have completely outdated short jibs. Long jibs are still cool but I just hire a guy for those on the rare occasions I need one.

Right. I'd rather have a quick to setup flimsy jib that takes multiple takes to get a smooth shot than a solid jib which I never use because it takes too long to setup. I already have a larger jib that I never use, the Hollywood Microdolly Jib. Waste of money. I need to put it on Ebay.

How long would you say it takes to setup?

I can typically setup the Kessler Pocket Jib Traveler in 2-5 minutes depending on if I've already got the various tripod adapters on it or not.

Also, since I'm generally a one-man-band, I'd want something light enough that I can move and lift it by myself without disassembling it. Can you do that with the PortaJib Traveler or is moving it a two person job?

 

[FrameFarmMedia]

To me, I think gimbals have completely outdated short jibs.

This is the conclusion I just made while searching for a small Jib that would still support my 10-20 lb camera setup. The small ones where too flimsy and the larger ones needed bigger crew than budgets usually allow. I ended up going with a Glidecam DGS (ability to switch low/hi mode quickly) with arm brace for short moves and a vest to replace longer dolly/slider shots. I know its not as good as each item separately but it gives me more creative shot types per dollar spent than Dolly or small jib. When needing to get a variety of shots without a ton of setup time this has proven to be a great option.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I often like to use the jib for overhead shots looking down. I don't think a gimbal would work well for that, and of course it wouldn't work for longer types of shots such as a safety training video I used the jib on where we rolled for minutes at a time and used the jib as an overhead wide shot instead of just getting quick b-roll shots. I also don't think a gimbal would be able to create movements as slow and as smooth as a jib. I'm really good with the Glidecam, and though it can mimic dolly shots, I still pull out my dolly or slider anytime I want a slower and more steady shot, which is pretty often.

So the Hollywood MicroDolly ain't that great? I looked at those when I bought this, but at the time, I had clients who wanted me to put the Varicam and other broadcast three chip cameras on this so it was perfect for it's era.

Yeah, I don't like the Hollywood Microdolly Jib. If you use the basket you get two connections to the jib which I suppose would be relatively safe; it concerns me that the only thing holding in the two weight bars are two 1/4" screws that have no latches, so if those screws come loose, your entire jib is coming down, and fast. Without the basket (and I don't like the basket concept; just let me use standard weights), instead of two weight bars, you only can use one weight bar, which means just one 1/4" screw without latches holding in the weight bar, with 30-100 lbs of weights on it, which really scares me. Maybe I don't know physics well, or maybe I'm right to be scared.

The mounting connections are also a bit odd in terms of figuring out how to mount it to my tripods, and mounting a head to the jib. Maybe I just never took the time to fully figure it out. Then there's also no pan and tilt locks or drag control, so I guess they expect you to always carry a separate stand to rest the jib on when you walk away from it. I know the Jimmy Jib for example has a pan and tilt lock. And of course it takes at least 10-15 minutes to setup, compared to 2-5 minutes for the Kessler Pocket Jib Traveler.

I bought it on Ebay as a kit with the Hollywood Microdolly track, with the track being what I really wanted (and which I really like; it sets up super quick in just two minutes), and the jib just being thrown in for good measure. The kit was around $2400, which would be about $8,000 if bought new, so I guess I wasted around $1200 on the jib, but since the dolly setup is around $3000 new, I still saved some money over buying just the dolly new.

 

[puredrifting]

Cool pics. It looks as if you do use the jib quite a bit more than I do. I am actually using my Osmo a lot these days, been shooting a lot of stuff with actors for LA Metro on freeways, trains and buses. The Osmo is pretty good in outdoor daylight, it lets me put some good movement on the shots without a lot of fuss and muss. I've used the Ronin a few times and like it but it takes so much longer to set up and tweak than the Osmo. Osmo is pretty much unlock it, power it up and start shooting. I have noticed that clients seem more impatient these days, they just want you to get on with it, never mind lighting it to look good, blocking and rehearsing the moves. This stems back to clients and producers not understanding how to do a script breakdown and knowing how long it ACTUALLY takes to do something well. Budgets are tight and getting tighter and they seem to want more shots, more setups, more locations than ever before. They get what they get with that mentality but it pains me at times to know on a one week shoot, if we just had one more day, all of the shots could look 15-20% better. One a one day, planning it well, not wasting times with multiple setups in multiple locations, trying to shoot it all in or two rooms would go a long way to improving production values. I always tell them, transport, setup and breakdown time doesn't make your end product look any better, setting it up, blocking it, lighting it well and rehearsing once or twice make it look better.

 

[nedcam]

Cool pics. It looks as if you do use the jib quite a bit more than I do. I am actually using my Osmo a lot these days, been shooting a lot of stuff with actors for LA Metro on freeways, trains and buses. The Osmo is pretty good in outdoor daylight, it lets me put some good movement on the shots without a lot of fuss and muss. I've used the Ronin a few times and like it but it takes so much longer to set up and tweak than the Osmo. Osmo is pretty much unlock it, power it up and start shooting. I have noticed that clients seem more impatient these days, they just want you to get on with it, never mind lighting it to look good, blocking and rehearsing the moves. This stems back to clients and producers not understanding how to do a script breakdown and knowing how long it ACTUALLY takes to do something well. Budgets are tight and getting tighter and they seem to want more shots, more setups, more locations than ever before. They get what they get with that mentality but it pains me at times to know on a one week shoot, if we just had one more day, all of the shots could look 15-20% better. One a one day, planning it well, not wasting times with multiple setups in multiple locations, trying to shoot it all in or two rooms would go a long way to improving production values. I always tell them, transport, setup and breakdown time doesn't make your end product look any better, setting it up, blocking it, lighting it well and rehearsing once or twice make it look better.

I have been reading this thread with bemusement, having sold my jib on CL about 4 years ago. Puredrifting is exactly right. My jib would end up being in the van because the clients have unrealistic scheduling expectations and if you say, "Let me do this to make this even better," you'll get an eye roll. I have lived through three recessions since college and each time we go through one the New Normal is: Cheaper, Quicker, Less People. Couple that with how the technology has made cameras lighter and more light sensitive, the new breed of clients expect us to do great work either solo or two person crew and out by 5PM. How many times have we all heard, when the client sees our cart(s) after unloading the vehicle, "Wow, you really need all this stuff?".

My theory is since the DSLR revolution, and before that the prosumer phase of smaller cameras such as the Sony VX1000, Panasonic DVX100 (for which this site is named), all the clients in any aspect of hiring video "vendors" have become accustomed to receiving bids from cheap, inexperienced bozos who would show up with one rolling case. However, in some ways when I show up with the kitchen sink and a couple of grizzled crew members we do give the vibe of "the pros have arrived". I have also noticed a million times that if I am dealing with the kind of clients who have only experienced the local news guy with his camera light, they think I am making a "fuss" with all my stuff. They don't see the difference.

So...that's why I jettisoned the jib. I have lived through many styles and now we're at the tail end (although I have to do BMC next week) of the "background totally out-of-focus and the camera has to always be moving (for no reason) period". I saw dozens of my competitors buy sliders and I looked into it and felt I would need a separate camera body just for that (or the jib) because I have my C100 or whatever ENTOMBED in my franken rig just perfectly the way I like it since I do a lot of handheld. The way I am responding to this is I "have a guy" or two who is expert at his own Ronin and another has a 12' jib and if I feel that bid is deserving of such I will try to get his fee. There's no sense buying such gear and seldom using it or not using enough to get smooth at it. For my side-to-side movement I have a small dolly that sets up IN SECONDS, not minutes but seconds. The downside is I have to shlep two 8' PVC pipes around. It's the Sawed Board from Australia which I don't think you can even buy anymore and gives the same look as a slider but continues for another 4 or 5 more feet.

I do miss the booming of a jib, I love that look, but there's just no time with today's schedules. One technique I use is I try my best to get a small fee for a location scout a few days before the shoot at which time I get them to be realistic and show me their plans and schedule. I then will offer suggestions that will speed things up such a no company moves, changing floors, foolishly chasing the sun, etc. By doing this I actually add time for set ups since these client types have no idea as to scheduling or predicting Murphy's Law.

But I miss my jib...however, there's no sense owning one.

 

[puredrifting]

Nedcam, if your clients will accept the quality, which is just decent but not great, you might want to pick up an Osmo. For outdoor daylight or well lit interiors, it adds a decent amount of production value for b-roll, although it's hopeless for sync sound, but it is quick to setup and and easy to use, I've even handed it to producers and PAs on location shoots when I am on the A camera and ended up with some surprisingly good footage from it, shot by people who have never even seen one. For lower light stuff, forget it. I was on a corporate shoot at a high end hotel in January, the client hired an outside company to come into a room of employees to do some silly, fun activities to break up their week of serious presentations and classes. I turned on the C100 on a locked off wide shot and cruised around with the Osmo, got a ton of very usable dynamic movement and it is so small and low key, you get right in people's faces with it and most aren't even sure it is a camera. I am kind of digging it as another tool in the bag that can add a lot of production value for $650.00. I've borrowed a Ronin a few times and the complexity of the setup, tweaking the balance when changing lenses and battery sizes puts it right back into the same issue as the jib, takes too much time and hassle to set it up and use it. The Osmo defeats all of these issues at the cost of the picture quality a bit but it is totally acceptable to many clients. Don't forget, many of our clients think YouTube looks acceptable a far as compression.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

I have a like new seven jib for sale with a skb flight case, btw.

Best compact jib on the market, imo.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?342820-Long-Valley-Equipment-Seven-Jib-XL-with-SKB-travel-case&highlight=

 

[cowpunk52]

I have a like new seven jib for sale with a skb flight case, btw.

Best compact jib on the market, imo.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-Seven-Jib-XL-with-SKB-travel-case&highlight=

I have one of these. Paid itself off on the show I bought it for (X-Factor). I don't think I'll ever sell it. Holds a ridiculous amount of weight, and is super simple & fast to put together. Perfect combination of versatility, capability, and portability. Can't recommend the Long Valley 7 jib enough.

One time I had it loaded with an Ikegami broadcast cam, 12" TelePrompTer, and dual lanc control handles + 80lbs of counter weight. Worked like a champ and smooth as butter.

 

[nedcam]

Wow! Thanks Puredrifting, I will look into buying one, great promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJZzgNwLoNA

All this talk about jib options brought back why I originally bought mine. I was the Midwest shooter for a popular crime show called Forensic Files for about 6-7 years and each gig was 4-6 days, good for about 5-8 gigs a year. The b-roll was the meat and potatoes of the show, 100% in crime labs. I realized this was mainly lab techs on bar stools hovering over counters playing with test tubes, peering into scopes, etc. I studied what their main LA based crew did and it was all booming looking down, swinging around, although you had to make sure your ass end didn't wipe out expensive equipment.

But that was the kind of gig where you're in one lab all day and I could charge EXTRA for the jib so I knew it would pay for itself. As I mentioned earlier as Puredrifting said, the clients are in such a rush now the last few years the jib didn't get used even when I brought it.

 

[jb.]

Can you drop pieces off of the C300 Mark II to drop the weight down to a manageable level?

 

[nedcam]

Hey Puredrifting, I'm looking into the Osmo and I think you found it a pig in low light because you were using the X3, correct? The X5, which is a lot more money, is Micro Four Thirds Sensor. That's what I am leaning towards but used at B&H. Would like to get my hands on one to test.

I also hate using my phone as a viewfinder. I don't like how the manufacturers are pushing us to use apps on our phones to save themselves money. I was part of a focus group lately and a major microphone manufacturer who we all use has a secret project to use your phone to program frequencies on your radio mics, monitor battery life, etc. So there's about 9 of us pros around the table and we all groan when it's unveiled. We rebelled at the idea and told the electronic engineers from the mega microphone company that us production pros need our phones to monitor incoming calls from crew and clients, order lunch, book jobs, monitor our email all day, etc. and we don't want to tie up our phone for doing something that should be integrated into the cases of the receiver and transmitters. It's their way of reducing the price point. So, if the only way I can see what the Osmo is recording is to use my phone then forget it. I think they are drone experts that are adapting their gimble to another market.

Also, in terms of replacing a jib, I don't think it will do a boom up and then tilt down, correct? Otherwise it's very interesting.

 

[puredrifting]

Hey Puredrifting, I'm looking into the Osmo and I think you found it a pig in low light because you were using the X3, correct? The X5, which is a lot more money, is Micro Four Thirds Sensor. That's what I am leaning towards but used at B&H. Would like to get my hands on one to test.

I also hate using my phone as a viewfinder. I don't like how the manufacturers are pushing us to use apps on our phones to save themselves money. I was part of a focus group lately and a major microphone manufacturer who we all use has a secret project to use your phone to program frequencies on your radio mics, monitor battery life, etc. So there's about 9 of us pros around the table and we all groan when it's unveiled. We rebelled at the idea and told the electronic engineers from the mega microphone company that us production pros need our phones to monitor incoming calls from crew and clients, order lunch, book jobs, monitor our email all day, etc. and we don't want to tie up our phone for doing something that should be integrated into the cases of the receiver and transmitters. It's their way of reducing the price point. So, if the only way I can see what the Osmo is recording is to use my phone then forget it. I think they are drone experts that are adapting their gimble to another market.

Also, in terms of replacing a jib, I don't think it will do a boom up and then tilt down, correct? Otherwise it's very interesting.

I have actually thought about just buying a used phone to dedicate to the Osmo for those reasons. Yes, the only way to see what the Osmo is recording is with your phone. Not positive what you mean by a boom up/tilt down? You mean a compound move? The boom up would be your arm and you could have the Osmo smoothly tilt down using the thumb joystick at the same time? Is that what mean? DJI also just shipped this cool extension stick that allows you to do very jib like moves too, I am having fun with it. http://store.dji.com/product/osmo-extension-stick

 

[nedcam]

Yes I mean a compound move, up 'n over. So you're saying with a thumb joystick, which I haven't located yet, I can do that? I need to be able to point down, such as over the shoulder of a teacher working with a small child, etc. This may be the perfect solution and I don't mind paying $1800 for a used one.

I am assuming you were using the smaller chip X3 because you complained about low light level performance? I recently saw a reporter using one and I had no idea what it was. He had his arm outstretched and it was pointing back to him, I thought it was a prosumer toy but wow, I am impressed. My quick research is that this is their drone technology. This thread talks about the hassle of not getting one's jib up in the time allotted or there's too many company moves to justify unpacking it, yet Ronin and Movis are a hassle and pricey, hurts the arms, so this may be what I need. I wish I could test it first.

As to the phone, yes you can buy something cheap but that means you're paying a monthly plan to the carrier? Eeeeesh....I'm wondering, whatever wifi signal they have going to the phone, which I think presently does only iPhones, how can I get that signal to something else, such as goggles of some kind? I need to run this by some of my geekier buddies, there must be a way to bypass the phone as VF bulls**t.

 

[jb.]

There's still no X5 adapter for the Osmo handle.

 

[David W. Jones]

My jib would end up being in the van because the clients have unrealistic scheduling expectations and if you say, "Let me do this to make this even better," you'll get an eye roll. I have lived through three recessions since college and each time we go through one the New Normal is: Cheaper, Quicker, Less People. Couple that with how the technology has made cameras lighter and more light sensitive, the new breed of clients expect us to do great work either solo or two person crew and out by 5PM. How many times have we all heard, when the client sees our cart(s) after unloading the vehicle, "Wow, you really need all this stuff?".

This has become so very true.

As a matter of fact, I am going through the process of re-doing my Sprinter load out because of these continuing changes. I have completely pulled out all gear, and will likely only keep one shelve rack for gear, and then roll out a junior cart & Milk Crate cart loaded as needed. A few years back I purchased a winch from Harbor Freight, which I will install to make single person loading of the fully loaded Junior cart easier into the van. Sorry to sidetrack this discussion. As far as Jibs go, I own 2 but as of late they are being used less and less for the above reasons Ned has mentioned. I own a Trovato Tote 48 Jib, and a Losmandy Porta-Jib Traveller. I have setup both solo, but given the choice I always prefer a second person when working with a jib. The downside to any of these jibs, even the portable ones, is carrying ballast. The longer the jib or heavier the camera, the more weight you have to carry. I will say the great thing about the Porta-Jib Traveller is the length is adjustable. I have used it in short mode mounted to a Dana Dolly for compound moves. But again, no matter the length, the jib still weighs the same. Time is one of the biggest factors I face in 2016 and I can't predict my jib use going up much. But what do I know. I would rather have them paid off and taking up space, than sell them and as soon as I do need one. :laugh:


As a side, that Seven Jib Matt has for sell is a good solid easy to setup jib.


Dave

 

[cpreston]

Yes I mean a compound move, up 'n over. So you're saying with a thumb joystick, which I haven't located yet, I can do that? I need to be able to point down, such as over the shoulder of a teacher working with a small child, etc. This may be the perfect solution and I don't mind paying $1800 for a used one.

I am assuming you were using the smaller chip X3 because you complained about low light level performance? I recently saw a reporter using one and I had no idea what it was. He had his arm outstretched and it was pointing back to him, I thought it was a prosumer toy but wow, I am impressed. My quick research is that this is their drone technology. This thread talks about the hassle of not getting one's jib up in the time allotted or there's too many company moves to justify unpacking it, yet Ronin and Movis are a hassle and pricey, hurts the arms, so this may be what I need. I wish I could test it first.

As to the phone, yes you can buy something cheap but that means you're paying a monthly plan to the carrier? Eeeeesh....I'm wondering, whatever wifi signal they have going to the phone, which I think presently does only iPhones, how can I get that signal to something else, such as goggles of some kind? I need to run this by some of my geekier buddies, there must be a way to bypass the phone as VF bulls**t.

The Osmo is a prosumer toy, but it sure is handy. Right now, the firmware bugs make it unreliable without practice and understanding the problems. Internal sound is a mess. In the future, you should be able to turn off the rather loud fan for brief periods of time. Picture profiles, bit rates, NR and picture adjustments are all oddly implemented and require test shooting before expecting it to behave like other cameras.

The phone works over wifi so you don't need to pay for a carrier. Just look at it as buying a cheap monitor. I actually think it makes complete sense for companies to start using tablets and smart phones as monitors as it keeps the price down. If you really hate the idea of using your primary phone as a monitor, just buy a secondary phone or tablet for working with video equipment. You can get a high resolution monitor with plenty of processing power for far less than buying a dedicated video monitor. Yes, I know a dedicated video monitor has features that a phone will never replicate, but most of the cheaper video monitors and camera LCD screens don't have any of those feature anyway and cost far more than a tablet or phone.

Regarding the Osmo, it acts like any other gimbal and will pan or tilt if you pan or tilt the handle. You can do a boom up and tilt down movement at the same time.

The X5 camera is nice, but it is has poor noise reduction and bit rate compared to a GH4. I far prefer the image on the X5 to the X3, but I wouldn't want to use it for good clean 4K footage. The 1080p footage at ISO 400 is great and could be mixed in with C100 or C300 footage.