GH4 Sigh. Disappearing screen info is here to stay.

thorn said:
No, but you don't seem to be acknowledging that encoding/processing/saving does have to take data size into account.



Ow. Quit it. Ow.



We know it can do 1080 @ 200. We do not know it can do 4K @ 200. You're saying that it inherently can (if not crippled), but based on nothing more than... a wish and a guess.



Perhaps the 3rd time will be the charm? Do you -NOT- understand than the highest transfer rate you can get (on any computer system, ever) is directly related to the amount of data you're attempting to transfer? What part of that (basic math) equation is NOT making sense to you?
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On the contrary, your seemingly basic math is wrong. If you want to use your computer transfer rate example, wether you are wanting to transfer 200MB or 400MB, if your bus is rated at a sustained 100MB per second then you will get around that 100MB regardless of how much data you want to send. Use the Blackmagic HDD speed tester and you will see that if you set the test size to any size (large or small), your transfer speed will pretty much stay the same.

But transfer speed is only part of the equation. If you don't understand that then that's fine but don't put idiotic statements into my mouth.

This has gone way off topic for too long. Back to disappearing info.
 
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OLED looks much better than LCD, but sensitive to burn-in, so Panasonic's compromise is the overlays eventually disappear. Not sure how many professional EVFs you've used, but there's a reason all the big names are moving to OLED. I hate RED's original BOMB EVF (but haven't tried the OLED upgrade) & am not a fan of Alexa's.

If disappearing meters are unusable to you then find a workaround, or another camera. Alphatron's, Kinotehnik's, & Zacuto's, EVFs each offer independant audio meters, plus advanced exposure, & focus tools, so much better suited to monitoring then the GH4's screens.
 
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Bern Caughey said:
OLED looks much better than LCD, but sensitive to burn-in, so Panasonic's compromise is the overlays eventually disappear. Not sure how many professional EVFs you've used, but there's a reason all the big names are moving to OLED. I hate RED's original BOMB EVF (but haven't tried the OLED upgrade) & am not a fan of Alexa's.

If disappearing meters are unusable to you then find a workaround, or another camera. Alphatron's, Kinotehnik's, & Zacuto's, EVFs each offer independant audio meters, plus advanced exposure, & focus tools, so much better suited to monitoring then the GH4's screens.
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I've never had an issue with Red or Arri's viewfinders. Considering most people shoot flat or log on them I don't understand why the EVF's colour reproduction matters so much. To be honest, I'm happy with B&W viewfinders so the tiny advantage of Panasonics OLED is lost on me. I also usually use an external EVF but it's annoying that there is no option to output info out to it permanently. Out of interest, which other cameras that have OLED screens also feature disappearing info? I can't think of any. Surely if other companies can make it work, why can't Panasonic?
 
vtwiz said:
Considering most people shoot flat or log on them I don't understand why the EVF's colour reproduction matters so much. To be honest, I'm happy with B&W viewfinders so the tiny advantage of Panasonics OLED is lost on me.
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Well, it's like you say: to each his/her own. To you, color reproduction fidelity is not important - bully for you. To me, it is very important, and I don't shoot flat, so I appreciate it. To you, disappearing info is apparently a huge issue. To me, it's not - I mean, I'd like the option of not disappearing, but on the list of important issues, this is - to me - somewhere close to the bottom. Given the choice - better color fidelity + disappearing info or worse color fidelity + persistent info display, well, I take the former by a country mile. But that's me, and clearly not you. So where does that leave Panasonic? They'll probably go for where they think more people are. Sometimes that will be pleasing to me, sometimes it'll go in your favor. It'll never please everyone.

I'm by no means dismissing your concerns, just wanted to chime in, that there are those who have differing priorities, and Panasonic must adjudicate between all of that. So I guess you can blame people like me, who just don't care a whole lot about this issue - and are much more concerned about color reproduction and willing to sacrifice in other areas. I certainly won't knock your concern about the disappearing image - but in turn, I think you are in the same boat when you dismiss other's concern for color fidelity. We're all our own special snowflakes... Panasonic has to pick and choose, and nobody is going to be 100% happy.
 
I understand that people have different priorities. Since the introduction of video cameras and film and since technically possible the info has always stayed in the viewfinder. Film cameras have light meters and other info in the VF and so do both low end and high end video cameras. Camera manufacturers have always thought that the operator needed info on the screen.

If colour fidelity is a priority to you I hate to dissapoint you but if the GH4 screen is anything like the Gh3 screen, colour accuracy is not a strong point at all. I've seen LCDs with better colour accuracy. While you mention Red and Arri EVF's, you may not shoot flat but most DP's using these cameras do. Colour fidelity is not all that important. In addition, professional video cameras have had black and white viewfinders for years and most still do. Add to that, film cameras do not have viewfinders that show colours true to what is being recorded yet this has never been an issue before. I find it hard to believe that after shooting for so long with B&W viewfinders and optical viewfinders that don't represent the final image, now colour fidelity is so crucial.

Now, back to OLED, why doesn't any other manufacturer have issues with burn in?
 
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Today I put together a kit list for a shoot in a few days. It's a long form interview and I was planning on shooting this with a few GH3's. No recording limit, SMPTE Timecode for TOD and roughly syncing the two cameras. Perfect for the GH3. The producer will have a client monitor for viewing the main camera as per usual but speaking to him today, he is wanting to log the interview as it happens. He wants a feed from the main camera but also needs TC on screen for logging. :-(

Being a long form interview that may go an hour, I'm not waving my hand around the back of the camera every 15 seconds and distracting the interviewee.

GH3 crossed off the list, if it had have been the GH4, it would have been crossed off the list as well.

Shame.
 
GH4 with the Interface unit might be perfect for your shoot - TC in to sync all cameras, and SDI out should make TC viewable on the monitor (for monitors that have the TC onscreen mode option) - and of course XLR audio to all cameras as well
 
vtwiz said:
Id say that to your face, that's the kinda person I am.

In terms of me settling down, don't worry I'm fine and completely calm. It's stupid sarcastic remarks that you feel the need to make that is annoying. But that doesn't get me wound up. Me calling you a fool is just an observation I'm making. You're reading it wrong.

So Malibu, at what price point do you think a camera should feature info that always stays on? Obviously you think that $1699 is too low to have the info on all the time.

Whats your figure?
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Well you never do say anything in real name forums. Never post your work either so zero respect for your opinions. There is a display Gonad with ears you just need to be mollycoddled and reassured that what you saw 10seconds ago is still there. Spruiker and failed cameraman art thou and a painful whiner to boot. Now take you ball and go back to mum. WE are all sick of your abuse an arrogance.
 
malibudutchie said:
Well you never do say anything in real name forums. Never post your work either so zero respect for your opinions. There is a display Gonad with ears you just need to be mollycoddled and reassured that what you saw 10seconds ago is still there. Spruiker and failed cameraman art thou and a painful whiner to boot. Now take you ball and go back to mum. WE are all sick of your abuse an arrogance.
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Sorry, I didn't see the answer in what you posted. At what price point should a camera contain info that stays on the screen?

ill be sure to tell the producer to just remember the timecode at the time I pressed record and count from there then.

Dude, calm down. Feeling a little insecure are you?

Nothing shows a lack of professionalism more than personal attacks and your last post contains plenty.

Is your real name Malibu Dutchie?

If you don't like hearing people complain about a feature that you don't think should be complained about, how about you stop reading the thread with that very complaint in its heading.
:-)
 
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Read your answers to most posts - abuse and aggressive, condescending know-all. You got nothing and should be treated with the same disrespect you dish out - calling people idiots and fools you Gonad with ears.
 
A few forum member made condescending comments in reply to one of my posts and I stated that their comments only made them look foolish. At no time did I unleash a personal attack like yours based on absolutely no information on who I really am.
You say I'm a "know it all", I'm not going to be sorry if my points are valid ones and you feel threatened by that.
 
Vtwiz the easy answer is... don't buy the GH4 if disappearing info after 30 seconds bothers you. Buy something else with less features but lasting on screen info if that is the make or break feature for you. Obviously Panasonic isn't going to change it so the choice is to either work around it like many do or choose to not deal with it and buy something else. I don't believe for a second that the info on the GH4 disappearing after 30 seconds will dent GH4 sales much and I would guess Panasonic feels the same way.

Different strokes for different folks. Isn't it great that there is choice and if something is that bothersome you can avoid it by using a different product.
 
vtwiz said:
A few forum member made condescending comments in reply to one of my posts and I stated that their comments only made them look foolish. At no time did I unleash a personal attack like yours based on absolutely no information on who I really am.
You say I'm a "know it all", I'm not going to be sorry if my points are valid ones and you feel threatened by that.
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You call people idiots and fools in every second comment. I post my name on other threads with links to my work - you don't do you, so show respect or expect none.
 
malibudutchie said:
You call people idiots and fools in every second comment. I post my name on other threads with links to my work - you don't do you, so show respect or expect none.
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Please quote the post where I called someone an idiot.

Sorry, I don't go trawling every thread Lookin for people's names. I don't really care that much.
 
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RatLabProductions said:
Vtwiz the easy answer is... don't buy the GH4 if disappearing info after 30 seconds bothers you. Buy something else with less features but lasting on screen info if that is the make or break feature for you. Obviously Panasonic isn't going to change it so the choice is to either work around it like many do or choose to not deal with it and buy something else. I don't believe for a second that the info on the GH4 disappearing after 30 seconds will dent GH4 sales much and I would guess Panasonic feels the same way.

Different strokes for different folks. Isn't it great that there is choice and if something is that bothersome you can avoid it by using a different product.
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I didn't start this thread. I'm just joining the conversation. Is there a problem with that?
 
Look for yourself - there's plenty of them plus where you called me a fool on this thread - you're a nutter mate. slink off somewhere
 
How about you two kiss and make up, then get back to the OP's thread, this bickering is disrespectful to him or her.
 
maranfilms said:
How about you two kiss and make up, then get back to the OP's thread, this bickering is disrespectful to him or her.
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The OP is disappointed that the info disappears but apparently we should not discuss it or be disappointed by it. Ridiculous isn't it?
 
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