Should I quit...?

This is not a dig, but rather out of curiosity, what are you currently doing to pursue a career in filmmaking/photography? Some call it hustling, but essentially it means you need topurposefully get out there, make connections, and make sure people know your name and about your work. It's not just the "best" that make it in their field, but more often those that hustle to get the jobs. There's a romantic notion about the "creative" who is driven to make art. This is fine, but it has little to do with making art your career. If you want to do that, you need to hustle. If you want to only dive into your creativity and soak it all up, then get a non-related job that pays the bills and do your art in your free time. Nothing wrong with that.
Oller Visuals said:
My biggest fear is walk the footsteps of my dad, he never achieved anything in life.
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Fear of failure is not uncommon, but like most fears, it's an excuse, a crutch to keep us from taking the big steps that might cause us to trip and fall. Take those steps-- you will likely fail, but nothing is stopping you from getting up and taking another step. I'm not even saying that if you try and try then you'll definitely succeed, but if you never try, then you will definitely fail.
 
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Jive said:
I'm not even saying that if you try and try then you'll definitely succeed, but if you never try, then you will definitely fail.
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Well, as someone who's been around the block a couple times, I'm not sure what's more bruising to the ego; feeling like you never really tried, or trying your hardest and not succeeding. As a younger inexperienced man I might have said the former. As an older man, having marinated in failure, I would say it's a more profound type of pain that's harder to recover from with each blow. This is not meant to discourage, only to paint a realistic picture of what's at stake.
 
Batutta said:
Well, as someone who's been around the block a couple times, I'm not sure what's more bruising to the ego; feeling like you never really tried, or trying your hardest and not succeeding. As a younger inexperienced man I might have said the former. As an older man, having marinated in failure, I would say it's a more profound type of pain that's harder to recover from with each blow. This is not meant to discourage, only to paint a realistic picture of what's at stake.
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And he's going to do what he wants anyways. He won't listen to any advice even if he's asking. He wants a justification for what he's doing.
I have to assume the questioneer is in his 20's otherwise life will have cleared up most of the questions asked so far.

He's not looking for answers. He's looking for support. imo.

/On that note..Yeah. Do it. Do it for as long as you can or as long as you want to.

//your fine. I have a similar condition. It sucks. Do the best you can. The most important thing is do what is important to you. That's ALL that matters. Do it for a living? Maybe that's not in the picture.Yet.
I think if you keep at it long enough you'll be answering these questions yourself in short order.
 
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It's really just not about talent. It's about making money. Talent doesn't make you money. Talent plus luck, hard work, business skills, and mad people skills will make you money. If all you have is talent you'll stay broke as an artist.

An artist with good business skills that's able to go out and be an awesome salesman that pimps their work, someone that never met a stranger, will make 10x more money than someone that is 10x more talented but lacks those skills.

Read stories of successful artists. They almost always include something like "I was in the right place at the right time..." (luck) and "this friend of mine..." (connections).
 
Gillvane said:
It's really just not about talent. It's about making money. ...
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I disagree with that. Yes, sustaining yourself as a working artist takes a tremendous amount of hustle and drive but I really think that the "Digital Revolution" and the "HD-SLR Revolution" has opened up a huge opportunity for the making of video projects as an avenue of personal expression. The cost of entry has been lowered to a point that individuals with modest means can set up a "Complete" media production facility and use it for personal expression without regard for return on investment. Now getting the product of that personal expression out to a wide audience will take every bit of the hustle and skills that Gillvane cites, but I don't think that everyone's motivation really needs to be about making money. I cited a philosophy above about embracing life with the concept of "The Sweat on the Wine Glass". I have another philosophy concept that guides me and it is the concept of "Bloom Where Your Are Planted". The basic tenet of this idea is a rejection of the, "If I go there everything will be better", when in fact if what you are doing where you are is not working, then it won't work "There" and that you should try to be the best that you can be where ever you find yourself at the moment. Applying this to filmmaking, I would say to look around you and find the compelling stories that are happening everyday around you. There is a lot of stuff going on in the world right now and I think that talented filmmakers should be documenting it. "It's about making money" should not, IMHO, be the guiding force in telling those stories. Filmmakers that chose to tell those local personal stories, with style and skill, should never have to be considered any less professional or accomplished as those that hustle themselves into making mainstream movies.
 
Scott F said:
(Off topic Spartacus, whenever I see your name I always read it as "Sparat-a-cus" like Alicia Silverstone says in Clueless. Am I alone here? Anyone?)
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I thought I was alone...

How is it that everyone knows that movie...

'I got a 45 and a shovel. I doubt anyone would miss you.'
 
On the topic again, sorry if the derailment was rude. I dunno if I have ADHD but the more I read the more it feels like I know exactly what you guys are talking about. Sounds really familiar.

I just cleaned my act up a few years ago. Like 2 years ago actually. Was a mess before, broke all the time, no routine, can't stick to something for long. I'd pick a thing up for a week straight. Literally, straight one week, and everything else would go to hell. Then I just jump to something else. Not just moviemaking but life. During the moment, I feel like I can dedicate the rest of my LIFE to that one task, then it's gone.

I dunno about ritalin. That someone here should recommend medicine is a bit freaky.

Exercise is big. I got into Tai Chi and it cleaned things up, made me cook, and garden, that alone cut up my day nicely. The problem now has become in order to stick to my routine I can't have any interruptions. A relationship is out of the question right now. Otherwise it'll all go to hell the minute somebody else wants something at an inappropriate time.

Do you keep things inside? As you are dealing with one thing, something else comes up, and you'll do whatever it takes to avoid the headache or deal with it later?

The most important thing in my book has been my house. If I don't have a house, or a spot to call me own, and it's not in tip top shape, things fall apart. Nothing came before I loved my home. Take care of your spot. Spend a day on it. And you'll be so excited to wake up in it the next day it'll feel like wind blowing through your brain.

That's my 2c. Home first. Then food. Then body. the rest will come. Don't push with the exercise. I think you may push too far it burns the fuse out.
 
David G. Smith said:
I disagree with that. Yes, sustaining yourself as a working artist takes a tremendous amount of hustle and drive but I really think that the "Digital Revolution" and the "HD-SLR Revolution" has opened up a huge opportunity for the making of video projects as an avenue of personal expression. The cost of entry has been lowered to a point that individuals with modest means can set up a "Complete" media production facility and use it for personal expression without regard for return on investment. Now getting the product of that personal expression out to a wide audience will take every bit of the hustle and skills that Gillvane cites, but I don't think that everyone's motivation really needs to be about making money. I cited a philosophy above about embracing life with the concept of "The Sweat on the Wine Glass". I have another philosophy concept that guides me and it is the concept of "Bloom Where Your Are Planted". The basic tenet of this idea is a rejection of the, "If I go there everything will be better", when in fact if what you are doing where you are is not working, then it won't work "There" and that you should try to be the best that you can be where ever you find yourself at the moment. Applying this to filmmaking, I would say to look around you and find the compelling stories that are happening everyday around you. There is a lot of stuff going on in the world right now and I think that talented filmmakers should be documenting it. "It's about making money" should not, IMHO, be the guiding force in telling those stories. Filmmakers that chose to tell those local personal stories, with style and skill, should never have to be considered any less professional or accomplished as those that hustle themselves into making mainstream movies.
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The original post was posed as, do I have the talent to be a director? and I assume he meant can I make a living as a director, is my work good enough? It's about people skills, hustling, connections, business acumen, etc., more so than your ability to create a good shot list. You need that too, but the other skills are what get you a paycheck as a director IMO.

I don't think anything is wrong with hobbyists making films for self expression. Many hobbys, owning a boat, custom motorcycle, heli-skiing, hunting big game, etc., are very expensive and you can certainly spend much less on a film making hobby than someone else's stamp collection.

I"ve also come to look at film making very differently in this new digital revolution. What has changed is that equipment costs less. Digital now looks cinematic, and you need fewer lights.

What has not changed is the cost in human resources that it takes to make good cinema, and that part won't ever change, IMO.

You have to either pay a good DP, gaffer, sound tech, camera operator, grips, electrics, and so on, and those people have really high daily rates, OR spend a tremendous amount of energy motivating people to work with you for free. I see that as the challenge to the indie film maker, not the gear.
 
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My comments are not directed at the OP in particular, but to the idea of quitting in general.

You need to structure your life such that sitting alone with your writing materials is the most stimulating activity you allow yourself. Do you drink too much, watch too much porn, or play too many video games? These activities are so "awesome" that everything else sucks in comparison. Writing and filmmaking require the ability to delay gratification. Amateurs like the -idea- of being a filmmaker, and sometimes the "look at me, I'm an artist!" pleasure is enough to get them to make a short film or spend a couple days writing. But this won't be enough for long form projects, much less a lifelong career. You must enjoy the work--the lonely, hard work that everyone's just going to hate you for anyway.

Regarding living expenses, are you living at poverty level? Poverty for a single person in the USA is $12,000/yr income. Can you make $1,000/month? This industry doesn't provide riches, but if you're even minimally talented, you should be able to at least survive, even on the low end. I made this much as a high school working only weekends and during the summertime. Living at the poverty line is easy and comfortable if you're healthy, and it'll teach you lessons that words cannot. Plus, your inability to afford fancy leisure activities will give you even more time to do your work.

If you're not willing to make these sacrifices, you should quit.


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To address the commonly mentioned notion that it takes luck to "make it," one should be clear about the definition of success. I agree it takes luck to become rich or famous as a filmmaker, but the OP has defined success as simply to be creative. This is 100% in your control, with absolutely no element of luck or destiny involved. Now, perhaps your definition of success is indeed to become rich and famous. If that is the case, then I hope you quit. The world doesn't need any more people with that goal. Especially in cinema.

To address the idea in this thread that only geniuses can work 12 hours a day, you should read some biographies of so-called geniuses. They were ordinary people until they decided to work hard. How did they work so hard? Their world-view. They believed their work was necessary and seeing it made manifest was their only option. The incentives of fame and fortune alone are not enough to motivate a person to create great art. Kubrick and Bergman were recluses for a reason.
 
Drew Ott said:
To address the commonly mentioned notion that it takes luck to "make it," one should be clear about the definition of success. I agree it takes luck to become rich or famous as a filmmaker, but the OP has defined success as simply to be creative. This is 100% in your control, with absolutely no element of luck or destiny involved. Now, perhaps your definition of success is indeed to become rich and famous. If that is the case, then I hope you quit. The world doesn't need any more people with that goal. Especially in cinema.
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The OP says he can't pay his bills which to me sounds like he's looking for the happy middle ground be 'starting artist' and 'rich & famous'. Lots of people just want to make a decent living doing what they love.


This thread reminds me of nice 'op-ed' piece from The Onion:
It could be anything—music, writing, drawing, acting, teaching—it really doesn’t matter. All that matters is that once you know what you want to do, you dive in a full 10 percent and spend the other 90 torturing yourself because you know damn well that it’s far too late to make a drastic career change, and that you’re stuck on this mind-numbing path for the rest of your life.
.
.
.
Because when you get right down to it, everyone has dreams, and you deserve the chance—hell, you owe it to yourself—to pursue those dreams when you only have enough energy to change out of your work clothes and make yourself a half-assed dinner before passing out.
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-Andrew
 
So you know that backlight makes better images, so you know that flares are attractive... and despite of that knowledge you are making "meaningless images" - i bet you wonder why that is. My answer is the context. Your images are "pretty" and nothing else. They don't change my perception of the world. The only image that attract me if that of looking up to the sky with blurry stars. There is a very specific reason - because by blurring the stars you turn them into chrismass lights. You remove the grandeur of those objects and with that trigger my mental gears. That reaction is not profound - you are not the first one to equate starts to christmas lights - but it is a start. Start doing with with everything you do, how can i take outside of just "pretty" and add some meaning to it. Incidentally a documentary i'm co-directing was brought from that frustration - i was fed up of making pretty images without meaning:
http://www.swlthemovie.com/

As you start trying to infuse images with meaning you will discover a whole new world of potentials.
 
The decision to quit is a lone one as is the decision to push through your pain, carry burdens, etc.

Finances are a concern the world over. I have yet to sell a script so I blog for income to pay for food. I use what skills I have to supplement my income, but I don't use those skills to "try" to make a full life out of it because at the present time it would be too difficult.

What I heard is that "I'm frustrated not earning enough money for my daily life." Then do something about it to change that.
 
Drew Ott said:
My comments are not directed at the OP in particular, but to the idea of quitting in general.

You need to structure your life such that sitting alone with your writing materials is the most stimulating activity you allow yourself. Do you drink too much, watch too much porn, or play too many video games? These activities are so "awesome" that everything else sucks in comparison. Writing and filmmaking require the ability to delay gratification. Amateurs like the -idea- of being a filmmaker, and sometimes the "look at me, I'm an artist!" pleasure is enough to get them to make a short film or spend a couple days writing. But this won't be enough for long form projects, much less a lifelong career. You must enjoy the work--the lonely, hard work that everyone's just going to hate you for anyway.
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This. A thousand times this. Genius. Nailed it.
 
"My plastic surgeon says I can't have any balls flying around my nose."
"there goes your social life."
 
I have a friend that got a masters degree in materials science. Went to work. Hated it. Became a building maintenance person. Low pressure, relatively easy work, regular hours. He retired in his 50s with no worries. Instead of spending all his time on his career, he spent all his time sailing his boat, which is his passion. There's a lot to be said for that career path.
 
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