Should DVXUSER start a production company?

Chamber005

Chamber005

Carbonite Member
I wasn't sure where to start this thread, but "DVXuser news" seems to be appropriate.

I wondered if people here ever thought about pooling their resources. It seems that we have at least 4 or 5 guys here who have actually sold films. I've always thought the same thing about Video Copilot (like, since they're all AE users why don't all of the accomplished members come together and get with a filmmaker and produce a visual effects-heavy flick?)

It just seems like such a waste when I see one guy with 3K to spend on a project but no equipment, then the next guy has a Red cam but no money or crew. Obviously location matters, but imagine if all of us could fork up 400-500 bucks and get a producer credit on a film that "our" best director puts together using one of "our" best script writers?

For instance, I'm in Chicago and am in the learning stages of filmmaking so I'd be pretty useless to something happening in LA, right? But if I put 500 bucks into the pot and was able to help PROMOTE our flick in my city, that seems pretty invaluable to the success of "our" film, ya know?

DVXuser has all of these fests to show us (and the rest of the world, I guess) who is the best and brightest newcomer. I know that there are lots of directors here, but if there was some kind of consensus amongst the group of who our best "better" is and we took a vote and put that person up to direct the first flick, then did the same with our "best" screenwriter, I would think we could accomplish something pretty remarkable.

And best yet, imagine if we took our best screenplay and ran their script through our gamut of screenwriters for review and some re-writes? Imagine if we took the guy with the best editing sensibilities and lined him up behind our best director? Obviously all of you who want to be directors (not producers) would have to sit shotgun either on the actual set as ACs or DPs or in your own town where you're promoting the film, but at least we'd all be a part of something grander than we each as individuals could accomplish.

We all know that it takes many, many people to make a movie and it takes an army to market one. I can't imagine anyone here would have any problem with one of the DVX creators acting as treasury, as they'd have the most to lose over any of us forum goers if something happened to the funds.

And the story itself would be the primary aspect of our feature's saleability. "A bunch of people from around the world who belong to the same filmmaker forum pooled their resources to make a film -- and aren't you glad they did!"

Putting all ego aside, forgetting for a moment about your personal aspirations (those will still be there when the dust settles), what does everyone think about this, and would it be something DVXuser would be interested in doing?

Seriously consider it! There's so much talent here, so many people all eager to take SOME kind of step into this business. Imagine what we could accomplish if we all came together here, across the nation! I know I can put together a few hundred bucks for the cause. Just being a PART of a feature film that goes from beginning to sale would be well worth the price of admission IMO. Most of us would never in our lifetimes see that happen without considerable help.

We'd need DVXuser itself, I think, to step up and approve this. But if they do, who's with me???
 
I like the idea (I've had the thought myself), but how does anybody more than a small group of say 5 agree on a script to shoot? Polls won't work because the people that vote for the losing scripts will just loose interest. If we just choose one person to write a script, that we'll all have to live with, how do we agree on the person?
 
Go to the Dvxuser meeting thread. Get going! Start something up in your area. If the ideas that get kicked around are good enough, why would anyone loose interest? It may take more work and compromise to get it done, but it just may be worth it. Start up a Chicago (or Jersey!)DVX production and don't stop until your done. If you find the right guys and gals that are as motivated as you are then it'll be awesome.
 
dsto said:
Go to the Dvxuser meeting thread. Get going! Start something up in your area. If the ideas that get kicked around are good enough, why would anyone loose interest? It may take more work and compromise to get it done, but it just may be worth it. Start up a Chicago (or Jersey!)DVX production and don't stop until your done. If you find the right guys and gals that are as motivated as you are then it'll be awesome.
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But that's too small. I'm talking about the entire DVX community. You won't be able to raise enough money (or garner enough talent) in just your area to get it done right. I'm not talking about a few of us coming together and doing something, that's already being done. I'm talking about DVX itself actually going to all of its members and asking them if they want to contribute to a production that is, in part, based on a voting system. There's no "losing interest" because our money would be upfront, and once you have $$$ invested, believe me you stay interested.

I think it's pretty obvious who the top, say, five top directors are here. After them there are some considerably strong DPs and others (of the five and beyond) who could act as ACs, etc.

In order to create something really substantial DVX would need to call on all its members. The promotion alone from all those invested (either monetarily or otherwise) all promoting the film to their local news outlets and social networking pages, friends, families and co-workers would be huge. You would have to pay people thousands of dollars for that kind of free publicity.

I'm sure that if DVX posted that it was going to be starting a production company using filmmakers here, and gave us a date to which we all had to save, say 400 bucks for to be included in the production (and maybe even created a tier schedule that created percentage profits according to money invested), we could see a hundred members step up to the plate. Once the funds are secured, the voting commences and we're off!

I think a lot of people might say, "What's in it for me?"

A) If you live near the area where the filming is taking place, you're part of the crew and get to work with the best director (or most voted for) here on DVX.

B) You'd have a production credt to your name, hopefully attached to a moderately successful film

C) You'd get familiar with how to sell to your audience on a film that isn't yours, which is a much, much easier task than selling something that is, IMO

D) You would forevermore, moving forward, be part of a vast social network of people who you have a profound shared experience with and who (potentially) will be able to help you when you're looking to promote your own film. For instance, if 100 DVXusers did take part in the project, I could almost garauntee that when you release your next own self-funded project, you'd have 100 brothers and sisters all posting your trailer on their social networking sites, urging people to check out their friend, etc. Essentially, as a filmmaker, you'd be able to tap into other filmmaker's resources, including their fan base.

Again, *I* can't make this happen, only DVX really can. But the bottom line is Centruy 21 is far more powerful than is an individual real estate agent or even a small group of real estate agents.

I feel secure and satisified in my own future in the arts, but imagine what an amazing thing it would be to be a part of something like this? That regardless of your experience level you'd be able to point at a film, see your name in the credits and say *I* made that happen.

I'd love to hear DVX's position on this.
 
Chamber005 said:
I think it's pretty obvious who the top, say, five top directors are here. After them there are some considerably strong DPs and others (of the five and beyond) who could act as ACs, etc.
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Oh my god, oh my god, I hope I made the cut! Please don't let this turn out like the cheer leading tryouts sophomore year! :cheesy:


Your idea is cool, and is basically just taking the DVXuser fests and upping it to a more independent level, as it does not have to fit a certain theme and etc. I think you ARE able to start this up. You cannot probably use DVXuser as the name of the group, but you should be able to use the forum of DVXuser to recruit and manage those individuals. I have a feeling that all you really have to do, is give yourself a producer title, and start poaching individuals from the boards. I say this because perhaps having a proven indie director on board can help swell enthusiasm for the project. It's up to you if you want to start micro-managing many 'groups' at once. I'd say just take it slow and make a good first film. Then you can use it to show others what you are trying to do.

It's not a bad idea, but someone is going to have to take the initiative, and DVXuser won't officially take the reigns. They will simply give you a home to communicate with other people who could work with you.
 
Well. I can say for myself, if it is not close to me, where I can have a hands on part of the production, I probably would not "invest" in that project. If I had $400 lying around, I would use it on my own project in some capacity.
But, hey, I'm just one guy here on this forum, who knows what othersmight think. It is a very ambitious idea.
(p.s. I bet there are a boat load of DVX users in your area)
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Oh my god, oh my god, I hope I made the cut! Please don't let this turn out like the cheer leading tryouts sophomore year! :cheesy:


Your idea is cool, and is basically just taking the DVXuser fests and upping it to a more independent level, as it does not have to fit a certain theme and etc. I think you ARE able to start this up. You cannot probably use DVXuser as the name of the group, but you should be able to use the forum of DVXuser to recruit and manage those individuals. I have a feeling that all you really have to do, is give yourself a producer title, and start poaching individuals from the boards. I say this because perhaps having a proven indie director on board can help swell enthusiasm for the project. It's up to you if you want to start micro-managing many 'groups' at once. I'd say just take it slow and make a good first film. Then you can use it to show others what you are trying to do.

It's not a bad idea, but someone is going to have to take the initiative, and DVXuser won't officially take the reigns. They will simply give you a home to communicate with other people who could work with you.
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Ack...I dunno. There's a HUGE difference between me as an individual asking other members for money and DVX doing it. I mean, logically, who is going to send 500 bucks to me (or some other individual) to make a movie? And further, DVXuser has access to all of its members. All I can do is just go around to different forums shaking my tin cup. And don't forums usually frown on that kind of thing?

The key to good sales returns is direct marketing. I can't spam the boards. If the forum owners aren't willing to somehow assist (and in that way make it their own in some aspect), it would be incredibly challenging (though not impossible) to get the word out to its users.

I see your point, though. So you're saying I need to decide which filmmaker here I believe is best (or could be most successful) and I need to start poaching people to help me produce his/her next project?

I'd only be willing to do something like that if DVX gave me full approval and someone else could operate as treasurer -- that, to me, is the most challenging thing; how can people trust that their money is going to be secure and that they won't be ripped off? To me, DVX is such a potent BRAND that all participants wouldn't worry too much about their funds being properly cared for. But if you're just Joe Blow who no one knows? *I* certainly wouldn't send any money to that guy.

I think you'd need some other entity, like a business that could insure the funds to everyone who deposited into it (not the way a bank insures, but moreso the way a construction loan is insured), and people (complete STRANGERS, mind you) would have to be able to understand in basic terms how their money is secured and how it would be illegal for the funds to be used on anything besides the funding of the picture.

IMO we need someone or something that is a brand name -- some entity or some person whose product or person would be fiscally ruined if they screwed over doners.

But, like you said, if I chose a director that we all know and who would be severely crippling his position if he screwed doners over and then just lobbied people around him/her, people might get on board.

Face to face or over the phone I can get doners. But what I'm talking about is forming a real network of filmmakers in the name of production. Not just building a (free) crew but also building a massive marketing campaign full of interested parties.

The key, though, would be to have permission from DVX, VideoCopilot and other forums to "poach" people in this manner, as I'm sure they would frown on it. Or maybe they wouldn't? I don't know. I just know that I know how to get things done and make things happen when it comes to money. But I personally have nothing saleable right now because I'm still learning the craft.

If more people could chime in on this (and again, if a rep from DVX could as well) that'd be awesome.
 
dsto said:
Well. I can say for myself, if it is not close to me, where I can have a hands on part of the production, I probably would not "invest" in that project. If I had $400 lying around, I would use it on my own project in some capacity.
But, hey, I'm just one guy here on this forum, who knows what othersmight think. It is a very ambitious idea.
(p.s. I bet there are a boat load of DVX users in your area)
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In Chicago? I haven't noticed many. And personally I'm not in a position to do anything in regards to filmmaking. Have you SEEN my webseries? LOL I think this last shoot went better, but I've got years to go and mountains to climb. And I don't want what's closest, I want what's best.

I hear you on wanting to do your own stuff, but the thing you're missing about that money is what you'd be buying. You'd get 4,000 dollars worth of marketing for 400 bucks by virtue of growing your social network of filmmakers -- filmmakers who all themselves have fans of, obviously, independent films
 
You've obviously been giving this alot of thought. I did ,and do not mean to sound negative to it in any way. It is really a pretty good idea. Some details to work out, but nothing insurmountable.
And yeah. I have checked out your web series. It is pretty cool. You've got some interesting shots. The make-up is great, the talking floor/rug thingy was a really neat idea.
Do not sell your self short there. You are actually creating something. I myself have a ways to go in learning what I am doing.
Keep plugging away at this, keep asking around, I think you are on to something.
Cloud Filmaking?
 
Weird. So just like that I started a thread in the director's forum looking for a director who wants someone to raise money for them. LOL

My previous idea is still WAY better (and cooler), but I think you guys are right in that it probably won't happen.

Still, if I find a director (and writer) here that I want to back and DVX approves the whole shaking tin can thing, maybe I'll be able to create a subsection of investors here who could operate as a group entity of investors -- maybe even a group that I personally would belong to and spearhead.

There's a couple of directors whose stuff I really like, but I want to see who's willing to step up before I go PM'ing them to " please let me raise money for you". ;)
 
yeah, if you just want to raise money for a cool up and coming director....:grin:
 
Holy sack slap!

I was checking to make sure everything was a go on my personal ability (ANYone's ability) to raise funds for a flick...wow...

The other major source of funds, equity financing, is problematic because
a securities offering memorandum (or disclosure document commonly referred to
as a "Private Placement Memorandum or PPM") is required to raise money from
investors outside of your family no matter how small the amount involved. Full
disclosure is required under the securities laws and notice filings are required by
the federal Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC") and by the laws of
each state in which investors reside (known as "Blue Sky Laws"). Violations of
the SEC requirements and the applicable Blue Sky Laws carry both criminal and
civil penalties.​


A business plan IS NOT a Private Placement Memorandum

. A business plan and a securities offering memo serve very different functions. A business
plan is a marketing document created from a selling point of view, which
necessarily contains optimistic information, forward-looking statements, hopes
and dreams, and possibly financial projections. A securities offering memo, on
the other hand, is a full disclosure document, which must contain all the bad
news, risks, and must list and comment upon all possibilities that could go wrong.
In order to safely comply with these laws, a producer should work with an
attorney who is familiar with both entertainment and securities regulation. This is
not a “do-it-yourself” type of project nor is it wise to "cut and paste" portions of
other PPM documents that you find on the web because the producer, without
help of securities counsel, has very little notion of what provisions and
information are needed.

The following is a summary of some of issues that arise when preparing a
private placement investment offering under this exemption:2
1. No General Solicitation. The producer may not engage in
any “general solicitation.” This basically means that investors are limited
to people that the producer actually knows, such as business associates,
friends and family. The producer may not advertise for investors in a
newspaper, or use a general mailing list or any other means of mass
communication. There are specific rules regarding general solicitation,
and an attorney can help to clarify exactly what a producer may and may
not do when approaching potential investors.
2. Accredited investor requirements. All investors must be
“accredited investors.” An “accredited investor” is a person of high net
worth, or certain kinds of banks or corporations. There are exact
numbers and specific requirements that a person, bank, or corporation
must meet in order to be considered “accredited.” These rules are
complex and change from time to time as the laws are updated. When
making an initial pitch, a producer can target people or corporations who
probably have high net worth. However, before finalizing the deal, the
producer must coordinate with an attorney, and review the investor’s
financial statements, in order to make sure the investor is indeed
“accredited.”
3. Disclosure requirements. A producer should present
potential investors with a “private placement memorandum” or a “PPM.”
The PPM is a document that discusses the business plan, the nature
and structure of the investment, and the potential risks involved. While
securities laws do not specifically require the PPM, it is nonetheless a
critical document. By communicating with investors through a PPM, a
producer can significantly reduce the possibility of lawsuits or criminal
charges down the road. A PPM is more than just a business plan; it is a
carefully drafted legal document and should be prepared by an attorney.
4. Filings. There are certain documents that the producer must
file with the state and Federal governmental authorities when issuing
securities. Securities laws require these filings, and the filings act to
alert the relevant governing bodies that the producer is conducting an
exempt securities offering.​
​

Wow. Just...wow.​

LOL​

Wow. I had no idea it was essentially illegal to raise money for a film. That...wow. That is a new one and I'm shocked no one has ever expressed disdain for this on these boards before.​

Wow.​


So, yeah, it appears that the only way you can (within reason) raise money for a film outside of your family is to make everyone who gives you any money at all a producer of some sort. If they're a producer they're not an investor. Still... Wow​
 
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You can ask for donations, but you cannot sell securities without following the securities & exchange commission laws.

If you're promising people that they'll get something back for their money, then you have to jump through all the hoops and register your investment as a security. If you tell them that they have nothing to gain by donating to your project, then you don't have to jump through any hoops (unless they give more than the federal maximum gift per individual, I think that's around $11,000). Anyone can give anyone up to $11,000 with no tax consequences for either the giver or the recipient.
 
Barry_Green said:
You can ask for donations, but you cannot sell securities without following the securities & exchange commission laws.

If you're promising people that they'll get something back for their money, then you have to jump through all the hoops and register your investment as a security. If you tell them that they have nothing to gain by donating to your project, then you don't have to jump through any hoops (unless they give more than the federal maximum gift per individual, I think that's around $11,000). Anyone can give anyone up to $11,000 with no tax consequences for either the giver or the recipient.
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Yeah, donations are groovy, but you can't really do anything with that. I was hoping to be able to grab investors for a director here, but that's just not going to happen after looking at these laws.

I think the only way to get any real money from outside your family is to sign people on as producers, but who knows what drama waits in that dark tunnel, right?

Also, even if you garauntee people that they will lose all of their money if they give it to you, you still just sold them a security -- just happens to be a security that's worthless. I just didn't want people to be confused with your "nothing to gain" part. Unless it is absolutely a gift (and preferably an unsolicited one), it's illegal to do it without the aforementioned legal hoops.
 
Which is why you don't promise them anything. Which is when you ask for a donation, instead of soliciting an investment. If they know they will receive nothing, why give them paperwork and turn it into a security? Why not just let it be what it is, an investment?

Anyway, yes, it's very tough to do. If Section 181 gets renewed, it'll become a lot easier, because at least their investment becomes tax-deductible, guaranteeing (for many) the prospect that at least some of their money will be returned to them.
 
Barry_Green said:
Which is why you don't promise them anything. Which is when you ask for a donation, instead of soliciting an investment. If they know they will receive nothing, why give them paperwork and turn it into a security? Why not just let it be what it is, an investment?

Anyway, yes, it's very tough to do. If Section 181 gets renewed, it'll become a lot easier, because at least their investment becomes tax-deductible, guaranteeing (for many) the prospect that at least some of their money will be returned to them.
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See, but I don't think it's hard at all to get people to invest in something, regardless of the return. I could probably raise 10K in a month for, say, Zak's next flick even if I told everyone investing that they probably wouldn't get anything in return. What I could not do is get 10k in donations. Just won't happen.

What's "tough" about all this is that you can't ask anyone outside of your family to invest in your film unless they are an accredited investor and you can't do any general solicitation for your film. In all my years in sales and marketing I have never, ever, never heard of something so bizarre as is not being able to "generally solicit". That...just takes the cake.

And you know who made a law like that happen? Production studios. Bet the pot on that one. By eliminating an individual's ability to effectively solicit investors for his product is a sure way of crippling individualism.

Creepy stuff for sure.

And just for clarity's sake, a gift (donation) is absolutely 100% never, ever an "investment". You can't even say "I was investing in him as a filmmaker". An investment is an investment whether there is documentation or not. A gift is a gift (and is better served when it has accompanying documentation stating as such). Believe me, I know. I bought one of my ex-girlfriends an SUV. When we broke up I sent the SUV back. She took me to court and sued me and, man, she WON! She won because the judge decided that the SUV was not a gift. He decided that I had a verbal agreement with her that I would continue to pay for the truck and that it was hers to have (which would typically deem a "gift" but what he deemed to be a "contractual obligation"). Since he believed that verbal agreement to be accurate, I had to give her 5,000 dollars (the difference of what was left to pay on the truck). That meant that not only did I have to pay off the truck, I also had to give her evil ass 5,000 dollars.
 
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Snake oil salesmen made laws like that happen. They were called "blue sky" laws because, without the documentation and effort, that's pretty much what investors were being sold -- nothing more than a patch of blue sky. This long, long, long predates studios.
 
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