Shooting an Even inside of a club?

F

FrankCastro

Carbonite Member
I was Hired (by a friend) which is a singer to record his performance in a club next week. The club is rather dark so I have a few questions.

* Which would be a good lens for this
* What distance should I record the artist
* Will the onboard audio be "good enough"


Recording at f /1.8 lets in a lot of light, but the focal plane is very thin which I have noticed is not good for a performer who will be moving around a lot. My guess would be something around f /2.5 would be better?

I noticed with these Dslrs it's better if you get real close to your subject while recording them. I could use my camera led + be closer to them for better light access. The only problem with this though is if other videographers are there they do not like me recording so close because than I'm in all of their shots :(



So these are my questions and concerns ( great forums by the way !! )
 
What camera are you shooting with? Big question #1 :)

Some initial thoughts. My friend recorded some dark live performances on his 5D. 50mm is still a bit too wide when you are not super close to the stage, but he does use it a lot. I'd say either the 50mm or 85mm F1.4 depending on where you are. You can always dial down the F stop, but if it is too dark, you are going to need all you can get.

The 5D was REALLY strong on the red channel in low light we noticed. Just a note.

The on board audio of ANY DSLR is not going to be good. I'd get a board mix myself, and just use the onboard mic for crowd sounds. The BIGGEST problem with onboard mic as you change the camera angle to get different views, the audio changes relative to where you are. Even if you are locked down, the audio in the location of the best video might not be the best audio. Some people just run a different mic to near a speaker, but my best recordings have been mostly from the board.
 
Apology for not stating the obvious. The camera I am using is a 60d. I do not have an external Audio recorder, should I go and rent one or is there another way? I would really like to have another camera man to record a second angle, but unfortunately the budget is simply not enough for this. Speaking on budget what is a standard going rate for recording and editing an event? Not that I'm going to charge him more or less, but just so I could know for any future reference. Lastly I have been using my 60D for a couple of months so I'm pretty comfortable with it, but I'm still very new to this in general.
 
I have no idea on budget, mostly for something like this I'd get about $150-$300 for doing the shooting on the projects I have been involved with. We normally go with 2 to 3 shooters. 2 - 7D/t2i and 1 HVX-200.

Things that come to mind:

(1) With the 7D I'd be using probably a 50mm lens for something like this.
(2) Avoid going over ISO1600, anything higher is pretty noisy. Also, you can use Neat Video to clean out some noise as well.
(3) Stage lights if they are cheap LED type can play some havoc with your footage. Just something to know.
(4) There is an 11 min recording limit, remember that.
(5) If you try and take the audio from the camera, as you move around it will fluctuate A LOT. A real lot. Best to use a fixed position recorder and/or a recording from the mixing board. If the performance is bass heavy, it's going to totally kill any cheap mic.
(6) Whereever you are recording from, make sure you are not on a resonant surface if the show has bass. It will shake the hell out of your camera! :) I know this from having this happen. The image jiggles during all bass parts.
 
grimepoch said:
I have no idea on budget, mostly for something like this I'd get about $150-$300 for doing the shooting on the projects I have been involved with. We normally go with 2 to 3 shooters. 2 - 7D/t2i and 1 HVX-200.

Things that come to mind:

(1) With the 7D I'd be using probably a 50mm lens for something like this.
(2) Avoid going over ISO1600, anything higher is pretty noisy. Also, you can use Neat Video to clean out some noise as well.
(3) Stage lights if they are cheap LED type can play some havoc with your footage. Just something to know.
(4) There is an 11 min recording limit, remember that.
(5) If you try and take the audio from the camera, as you move around it will fluctuate A LOT. A real lot. Best to use a fixed position recorder and/or a recording from the mixing board. If the performance is bass heavy, it's going to totally kill any cheap mic.
(6) Whereever you are recording from, make sure you are not on a resonant surface if the show has bass. It will shake the hell out of your camera! :) I know this from having this happen. The image jiggles during all bass parts.
Click to expand...


Wow, thank you for your wisdom! If you only charged $300 how could you afford another camera man + the editing? I also noticed that when I recorded a show for free ( practice ) that the flashes from peoples cameras caused weird flash frames within my video. Basically there are 3 ways I think I can approach this.

1) The best = lighting, stability, lenses, personal, audio recorder
2) Pretty good = Maybe renting a nice lens , using a monopod for stable shots , but only having one camera man
3) Ok = Use a 50mm 1.8 and just pray I record everything fine


If I would want the best Audio recording how would I actually record this? If it's a Dj in a club how would I connect an audio recorded to his mixer? Sorry for all the questions, but really these are things I need to know, Thank You
 
Your best bet for audio is to have the camera mic on for reference synch, and get a more serious recording of the show.

The best budget way to record it is with at least 4 tracks - take a stereo feed from the board, and put up two full-range mics, towards the back and high enough to avoid hearing individual people talking/hooting/whatever. Then mix the board feed (which may sound kind of "dead" as far as ambience and audience) with the rom mics (which may be "too much" ambience) in post.

If this dude's a musician, chances are he knows someone with a 4-track (or higher) recording setup on a laptop, or a free-standing digital recorder (you can get 4-track SD recorders for a couple hundred bucks).

The lenses/distance questions aren't something to think of so much on a tech level - envision the look, style, and shots you want and plan from there.

If there are a couple key songs he wants a great edit of, see if it's possible to film a sound check or session before the club opens, Have them wear the same clothes, and focus on closeups, really brisk moving shots, handheld, and things like the big drum roll before the solo. If their tempo is even close to the final mix, you can intercut this stuff and it can look seamless. The "just one camera" is going to look soccer-mom-ish, even if your exposure and framing are great. A professional edit will have framing, movement, and an evolution of shots that (hopefully) have something to do with the changing dynamics and energy of the song being filmed. Much like a movie scene (establishing shots, dialogue closeups, pans from one "Speaker" to the next - the "dialogue" and "speakers" being musicians playing key parts of the songs), filming a musical performance should express the feel and energy of the song and the event.

If you can get a second camera, use it - even if it's a consumer SD, a Flip, whatever - if it won't match cut, make those shots black & white, super-saturated, whatever. I've matched DV footage to DSLR footage pretty nicely.
 
On these shoots *I* made $150-$300 just being a camera operator. I am not sure what the editor (who also shot) made, but I am sure it was more. It's one of those areas I am not really sure as I don't do a lot of the editing, I am better behind the camera :) The flash problems are caused by image sensors that use something called a rolling shutter instead of a global shutter. Film uses a rolling shutter in essence as well, but, since the blade of shutter moves down the face of the film, the edge is soft unlike digital where it is a HARD edge. To fix this, it has to be done in post. There are a variety of ways, but if there are a lot of flashes, it can take a substantial amount of time to fix them all. Video cameras that use a global shutter, like MOST CCD cameras (HVX200) the whole frame is read out at once so there isn't any issue like that.

The wider your lens, the more forgiving it will be on movements. Something like the 85mm, if you move too quickly, you WILL see skew in the image. We use a monopod as well many times.

I think trying to do this with one camera is going to be a disaster. (1) If you lock the recording down in a safe location, the video will be boring. (2) If you move around a lot with a DSLR, changes are you are going to get a lot of unusable footage as well since you wont be in focus as you move, and, when the camera goes off, disjointed. I think you need at least 1 establishing shot camera or you will kick yourself later for this. We do these with NEVER less than 2 cameras EVER.

The Djs I have worked with have auxilliary outs on their mixers. Most of the professional ones have this, like Rane and Pioneer. They should be able to give you a stereo feed. But, you'll need something to feed that to, like a Zoom H1. Also, if you use the plugin pluralize it will automatically align your clips based on audio to the master shot. works great.

And no problem :)
 
Excellent post & I agree 100% with you. Also those are some great tips you stated on seeing if I can get a performance before the actual show. Getting a Dv cam from another angle just to have more cuts was also an excellent idea, and just like you said making it black and white could mask the difference in footage. My question to you Michael is what would you charge for something like this?

You seem like you know your stuff and would deliver a very professional project.
 
Also has anyone ever had a problem with another videographer? I was recording a performance once and he told me I was too close to the artist and I was in every one of his shots.?!!?? I just kept recording but I could see where this was a problem for him.
 
FrankCastro said:
Also has anyone ever had a problem with another videographer? I was recording a performance once and he told me I was too close to the artist and I was in every one of his shots.?!!?? I just kept recording but I could see where this was a problem for him.
Click to expand...

Cant say Ive ever seen a gig where there were two hired from different companies. The question is was he getting paid? If not - too bad.
 
FrankCastro said:
Also has anyone ever had a problem with another videographer? I was recording a performance once and he told me I was too close to the artist and I was in every one of his shots.?!!?? I just kept recording but I could see where this was a problem for him.
Click to expand...

This is something you have to work out on what you are going to do. I have seen this too, but I try to shoot with a big longer of a lens so I can get further back. I don't want people banging into me either.

As for black and white, I would talk to the person you are doing this for and tell them the budget isn't there for two HD cameras, and offer some suggestions with this being one of them. Just to make sure everyone gets what they want out of it. I always talk out what I am going to do if I am being paid. If I am not being paid, well, I do what I want :)
 
This is one of my favorite live performances, it's just in a small venue and gives some great yet simple ideas for some very easy live work - hopefully the venue will be generally calm in it's lighting (I couldn't imagine doing a techno club!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eDJ3cuXKV4

I believe my position of preference during a venue shoot would be right behind the audience somewhere that was raised a bit higher than the people in front of me, sitting at a calm table with a slider and a constant aperture IS zoom lens, or at least a IS prime. Next place I'd accept being is at a side angle, executing many zooms at both the performer and the faces of some active person the audience. Next choice would be some in-the-audience work using a good IS wide lens. Then, since a lot of songs today are about drinking and dancing, I'd of coarse do alot of cut-away shots to people both drinking and dancing, and have a few scenery shots along the way. To really pump up the entertainment value, I'd truly treat live shoots as though they were a music video, they have to encorperate alot of things to keep interest (and to fill in gaps where the camera will cut off and where you may need to make sloppy changes in position.) Before the show starts, I'd simply try and get every sort of cut-away shot I could - get shots of the bar tender, get shots of people drinking and dancing, get shots of the club's scenery, get shots of cool cars pulling in, get shots of the club's outdoor sign and building, just do whatever you can before and after to make sure there's so much stuff to add during the music and editing process.

My tips too would be simply cut the video on and off real quick every time a song or two ends and the performer isn't saying anything. I wouldn't really want it cutting off in the middle of the song even if another camera covered it. Soundwise, I have no clue, but don't clubs and stuff record their performers' and announcer's microphones? If they do, you may just want to use that track, they'd probably give it to you with the performers permission. Heck, I'd even find a couple people who know of the artist and interview their opinions as something to put before or after the performance, and get some statements from the artist himself. You really just gotta deck this thing out IMO, cover for what will probably be not great coverage of the performance itself! ;p.

Plus it's practice, easy practice at that!
 
Last edited:
1. use multiple cameras
2. don't use camera audio. If possible even try to get a recording off the club mixing board in addition to another recorder in general.
3. use the fastest lens you can get your hands on. If I were you I would not go below 1.8. I would actually try to use 1.4 though. Stay at lowest ISO possible. Don't go past 1250, I would shoot 320 or 640 if I could. Or lower.
4. I would use a 85mm or higher for closer shots on the band and various things. You will not regret it, wider on everything else, something like a 30mm 1.4 or 28mm 1.8
5. use shoulder mounts especially for the 85mm
6. have plenty of batteries as a backup
7. still record audio on your cameras as a last resort in case. I wouldn't use it but don't exclude. You might get a crowd cheer here and there. Put a Rode mic on it.
8. lastly to answer your question, a good distance is just going to depend on how good the shot looks from various angles of the club.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top