Shane Hurlbut: C300 VS Alexa
- Thread starter Simon Shasha
- Start date
NeedCreative
Well-known member
I'm way late responding (been away) but I see towards the end of this thread someone was able to process it out.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
I am reminded of the test that Barry Green did on the AF100/FS100 where he actually attempted to make the camera results very similar, and they were, yet, when I shot with my AF100 and FS100, they were VERY different out of the camera no matter how much tuning I did. Knowing how close these cameras can shoot is dependent on a HUGE number of variables AND the skill of the color corrector.
The problem with these tests is that if you focus say on "skintone" you have NO clue what the settings in camera were. Even with the corrected shots, like Jamie Lannister's character, the face looked better on the C300 but the shirt had nicer detail and roll-off (white) on the Alexa. But, I am sure you could change settings and get VERY different results.
There are people who get a camera and expect that Canon/Arri have done all the work to get the best settings out of it. I've read countless threads of people who get a camera, shoot it, are disappointed with it, and then sell it. If time is money, honestly, I can't blame them if they don't have the time to spend trying out EVERY possible combination of settings to get the most out of it. I can tell you, this has been a constant battle with my FS100. Yet I've won that battle. Many of you with a C300 have probably won that battle. But, if you are renting and you have a day or so to familiarize yourself with the camera, that's not a lot of time to *work* through the details of getting the best out of it.
I've seen FANTASTIC footage out of the C300 from people, and I've seen absolute crap. But the hard part is, everyone wants someone else's tests to validate a camera for them and that just isn't going to happen. It doesn't matter what professional uses the camera if it doesn't do what you want. I actually laughed at the Ron Howard comment and not because it has anything to do with him, it's just, I find it ironic that sometimes people accept a professionals choice of cameras, yet, when Jackson or Cameron uses a Red Epic, I see people being dismissive. Heck, what about when the 5D was being used on sets?!? That doesn't seem to make a difference to many people either. Yet, it's fact, it's been used as a B-cam for things in professional productions. People are comfortable with different results from cameras, it's just a fact of life.
So back to the topic of these videos that are now pulled, you have to look at them in light of who was testing them and for what. Hey, if he doesn't like the C300, that's his choice. Maybe something about how it shoots isn't sitting with him well. Maybe having to "learn" how the camera works doesn't interest him. If the Alexa interface works more along the lines to how someone with film might get their results, maybe that's part of the cost, and part of the strength in it as a camera as well. Just like people who don't want to sharpen 5Dm3 footage in post, I can't argue with that.
But, with everything, if you REALLY want to know how these cameras shoot, you're gonna have to shoot them yourself and go through the settings yourself. It's the only way you are going to TRULY know how the cameras were set and what the results were like. Trust me, it's almost ALWAYS different from what you see because your needs, they will be different.
The problem with these tests is that if you focus say on "skintone" you have NO clue what the settings in camera were. Even with the corrected shots, like Jamie Lannister's character, the face looked better on the C300 but the shirt had nicer detail and roll-off (white) on the Alexa. But, I am sure you could change settings and get VERY different results.
There are people who get a camera and expect that Canon/Arri have done all the work to get the best settings out of it. I've read countless threads of people who get a camera, shoot it, are disappointed with it, and then sell it. If time is money, honestly, I can't blame them if they don't have the time to spend trying out EVERY possible combination of settings to get the most out of it. I can tell you, this has been a constant battle with my FS100. Yet I've won that battle. Many of you with a C300 have probably won that battle. But, if you are renting and you have a day or so to familiarize yourself with the camera, that's not a lot of time to *work* through the details of getting the best out of it.
I've seen FANTASTIC footage out of the C300 from people, and I've seen absolute crap. But the hard part is, everyone wants someone else's tests to validate a camera for them and that just isn't going to happen. It doesn't matter what professional uses the camera if it doesn't do what you want. I actually laughed at the Ron Howard comment and not because it has anything to do with him, it's just, I find it ironic that sometimes people accept a professionals choice of cameras, yet, when Jackson or Cameron uses a Red Epic, I see people being dismissive. Heck, what about when the 5D was being used on sets?!? That doesn't seem to make a difference to many people either. Yet, it's fact, it's been used as a B-cam for things in professional productions. People are comfortable with different results from cameras, it's just a fact of life.
So back to the topic of these videos that are now pulled, you have to look at them in light of who was testing them and for what. Hey, if he doesn't like the C300, that's his choice. Maybe something about how it shoots isn't sitting with him well. Maybe having to "learn" how the camera works doesn't interest him. If the Alexa interface works more along the lines to how someone with film might get their results, maybe that's part of the cost, and part of the strength in it as a camera as well. Just like people who don't want to sharpen 5Dm3 footage in post, I can't argue with that.
But, with everything, if you REALLY want to know how these cameras shoot, you're gonna have to shoot them yourself and go through the settings yourself. It's the only way you are going to TRULY know how the cameras were set and what the results were like. Trust me, it's almost ALWAYS different from what you see because your needs, they will be different.
Menno Mennes
Active member
In this topic everyone is talking about camera' s.
IMO its all about a good story, cast, crew and good equipment. The blockbuster Slumdog Millionaire is shot with a Silicon Imaging SI-2K Mini (2/3" CMOS) camera and won over 101 Awards such as 8 Academy Awards, among best cinematography…by Anthony Dod Mantle
Other prizes are 4 Golden Globes, 7 BAFTA’s, 3 British Independent Film Awards and a lot more!
We don’t make films for our colleagues, do we? The average viewer don’t ask the filmmakers which camera and lenses where used. They like the film or not...So I purchase the camera of my choice...
Best wishes!
IMO its all about a good story, cast, crew and good equipment. The blockbuster Slumdog Millionaire is shot with a Silicon Imaging SI-2K Mini (2/3" CMOS) camera and won over 101 Awards such as 8 Academy Awards, among best cinematography…by Anthony Dod Mantle
Other prizes are 4 Golden Globes, 7 BAFTA’s, 3 British Independent Film Awards and a lot more!
We don’t make films for our colleagues, do we? The average viewer don’t ask the filmmakers which camera and lenses where used. They like the film or not...So I purchase the camera of my choice...
Best wishes!
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Well wouldn't "good equipment" be about camera?
For me it comes down to a simple fact, I want a camera that *allows* me to focus on the cinematography more and not worry about how the equipment will perform. I don't want to have to think "Will that brick face moire? How about that hard light edge, will it alias?" These aren't questions of composition, because there are times when I want to shoot bricks, or have a high contrast edge. When your equipment begins to not be able to handle a wider range of circumstances, then you are left wasting time second guessing your vision due to an equipment limitation.Not that this is anything new to anyone, film has many limitations.
Many of these tests push cameras in NOT where they shine the best to point this out. But, what people sometimes don't take into consideration is what they can live with an what others cannot.
Will the end product matter to the average person? Probably not, but it will matter to me and the pride I take in my work. As my father told me once:
"If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right."
And I live by this. Sure, story, cast, crew are all VERY important, but, those are irrelevant to a discussion about a camera and how it works.
Menno Mennes
Active member
Hi Rick,
Shure, "the pride I take in my work" is also very important to me. I'm in the 'business' over 30 years now and I have always shot with the cameras and lenses of my
choise. I want also enjoy my footage. I've owned the USA CP16 camera, the Frech Eclair, the German Arri and the French AAton, which I like the most. The filmlenses of my choise where the Angenieux. The videocameras I owned are Philips LDK 14, Ikegami 79e (tube camera) Ikegami HLV 55 and till now the Ikegami HLV79W with Fujinon lenses. And now I want to shoot with a 'light weight' big sensor camera. So I have to test Sony FS 700 and a Canon C300. In any case my lenses of choise are the Angenieux Optimo rouge lenses 16-42 and 30-80. And I am curious about the new Zeiss high speed prime lenses... I am just like you a serious filmmaker, who loves its profession!
Cheers!