SHAME on you Sony!

Duke M.

Duke M.

Veteran
As a prior purchaser of S-Log I'm pretty pissed. They just took away $2,800 dollars of rental value and prestige. Okay, maybe $2,000 worth of value factoring in the SxS card. (They forced me to buy the SxS card though. I have never used that SxS card for anything. I've been more than happy with Transend Class 10 SD cards because I can have a pocket full and they fit in an SD card reader. No hiccups.)

I have absolutely NO plans on buying any of their SLOW limited use OVER PRICED lenses that very few people want. Nor do I have any plan on buying their SR recorder. I have all the functionality out of the Samurai that I need for 1/10th the cost. This was a "junk mail" type offer.

SHAME ON YOU SONY. You've taken away from your loyal users and given them nothing in return.
 
Think about all of those rental houses/owners of the Sony F35 camera costing more than $250,000 when the F65 showed up on the market for 70,000.
 
Gary Huff said:
This is the risk you run whenever you line up to purchase any new tech early.
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So True. I purchased a new Panasonic F model Varicam for 58K very early on . Year later they ran a promotion that if you bought a new varicam, they would throw in a 8" HD monitor worth 5K for FREE.
 
totally agree

totally agree

"Yes but that's new technology. This is the same product a month later."

I totally agree. This is an incredible drop in price for a product that's only six months old. Remember the outcry when iPhone prices were dropped by 16% ($100)? This is a reduction of 75%!

To be clear, I think it's great that the price is lower and more people can afford it. They just need to offer a rebate to those who purchased it within the last six months. If I buy Adobe CS[x], then three months later they release Adobe CS[x+1], they send me a rebate. It's common practice, and I expect Sony to respect it.
 
I can see you're mad, but -- I mean, seriously, what are they supposed to do -- sit on a product that isn't selling, to "protect" you?

They didn't drop the price because they were selling out as many as they could make, obviously. They grossly overpriced the product, and very few people (apparently) bought it, so they re-evaluated and came up with a plan they think will work. And instead of just saying "too bad, you lose", they at least made some offers to their prior customers.

If you want to say "shame on you, Sony" for something, look at the way they handled the PD150. They put out a "pro" product with lousy hissy audio, then when people complained they issued a fix -- and CHARGED the end customer $150 to repair their defective camera. That was shameful. Here, they didn't screw anyone over, they released a product at a price point that you apparently found good value for the money (i.e., they charged $3700 for it and you said "I believe that is worth it, hence I will pay it"). They didn't rip you off, you accepted their deal and paid their price.

Apparently very few other people did, so now they have a choice: go out of business by offering a product nobody wants at a price nobody will pay, or respond to market realities by repricing the product at a point where people will pay it. You're a businessman, which would you do?

Say you rented your F3 out to IBM for a corporate shoot for $600/day. And the next week someone else moved to town and started offering F3 rentals for $350/day. What would you do? Would you insist on charging $600/day, even though nobody would pay it, they'd all rent from the other guy? I doubt it. You'd grumble and gripe but you'd cut your price to $350. And then what -- should your IBM client call you up and say "SHAME ON YOU, DUKE M, you overcharged us and now you should refund us all that money?"

Some how I doubt you'd do that. I think you'd say the same thing I am -- "hey, you made a deal, you thought it was a good deal, I did my part, you did your part, the check's cashed, let's move on."

How furious should Red One owners be, spending $40k on their camera packages, and finding that there's so many of them flooding the market that people are charging $200/day for a complete kit? Should they be saying "shame on you, Red, for selling so many cameras to clueless operators who have no business buying them?"

I bought an AF100. A couple months later they started giving away free 14-140 lenses with it, an $800 value. I missed out on that deal. Was I mad? Not really. I wish I would have gotten that free product, but I didn't, I got what I paid for, I can't really complain about it. Recently I bought another AF100, and a month later they started giving away a free $500 American Express rebate card with it. I didn't get that either. Was I mad? Not really; I mean, I can curse my timing, I guess, but in the end I needed the product, bought it, used it, and moved on.

Simple raw hard fact: technology will advance, prices will drop. How furious are you going to be when the F3's successor is announced? Because it will be. And it will be substantially improved over your current camera, and it will cost less than your current camera. Just like your F3 is substantially advanced over and substantially cheaper than the $100,000 F900. That happens. It will happen again. And again and again and again. Today's $16,000 C300 buyers are going to be apoplectic when Canon introduces a $6,000 C100 within a year, with the same sensor and the same image quality. But it happens. It will happen again and again. The windows between product introductions and price drops are growing shorter and shorter. If you can't make your money back in the ever-shrinking window of time you're allotted, you should reconsider whether you should be playing this game, because it's only going to accelerate.
 
I understand the feeling, having lost out on a couple of these last year.
Would have put 1K back in my pocket, but no dice.
Call sony, they may help, but I got the tough luck speech.
It good though I pace myself now (as much as possible)
 
Barry_Green said:
I can see you're mad, but -- I mean, seriously, what are they supposed to do -- sit on a product that isn't selling, to "protect" you?

They didn't drop the price because they were selling out as many as they could make, obviously. They grossly overpriced the product, and very few people (apparently) bought it, so they re-evaluated and came up with a plan they think will work. And instead of just saying "too bad, you lose", they at least made some offers to their prior customers.

If you want to say "shame on you, Sony" for something, look at the way they handled the PD150. They put out a "pro" product with lousy hissy audio, then when people complained they issued a fix -- and CHARGED the end customer $150 to repair their defective camera. That was shameful. Here, they didn't screw anyone over, they released a product at a price point that you apparently found good value for the money (i.e., they charged $3700 for it and you said "I believe that is worth it, hence I will pay it"). They didn't rip you off, you accepted their deal and paid their price.
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it's a tough pill to swallow, but i agree. i kinda took it for granted that they would lower the price at some point.
 
MPB said:
it's a tough pill to swallow, but i agree. i kinda took it for granted that they would lower the price at some point.
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I didn't doubt they would lower the price eventually. But a 75% drop months after release is the most extreme example I've ever seen. I would have accepted a $500 drop but this guts the value of what we paid for.
 
Barry_Green said:
The windows between product introductions and price drops are growing shorter and shorter. If you can't make your money back in the ever-shrinking window of time you're allotted, you should reconsider whether you should be playing this game, because it's only going to accelerate.
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A very painful to read statement but so bloody true!
 
....yes it does suck for early adopters but if you bought it early without much immediate need then that was your decision to make a gamble. Anything is possible in the world of "digital" today. 4k, 5k, 48fps... it will never end. Just get out there and shoot.....
 
It's all relative

It's all relative

It's all relative. At this moment in the Netherlands the average pricepoint for a PMW-F3L is 14,000 euro's (excl 19% VAT). At B&H in New York you pay 13,200 dollar (excl VAT). At this moment one euro is 1.31 dollar. As a Dutchman I paid 18,340 dollar for the same package. US citizens are just lucky bastards. And now they get SLog for 899. Lets hope they make the deal worldwide,... as a free download. The dutchies paid already for SLog but didn't get it.

  • Drogar-Happy%28DBG%29.gif


 
I was kind of pissed..... but, I made my money back on the first job w/ it. No sweat. F3 keeps earning like a madman.
 
TimurCivan said:
I was kind of pissed..... but, I made my money back on the first job w/ it. No sweat. F3 keeps earning like a madman.
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But if you bought it last month will you make your money back next month? I would feel a lot better if the rebate wasn't for something most people will never buy. And requiring receipts? I have one but do they think someone is selling f3s out of their trunk?
 
Sometimes you win, sometimes not. I won on the front end, getting the F3 before the price increase. Lost on this end, but like others have said, if you're keeping the F3 busy it's probably just better to keep your head down and keep making money with it.
 
S-Hog

S-Hog

First off, if you did not pay full price for S-Log, don't start preaching here about how technology advances so quickly these days, and "what are you gonna do when a new better camera comes around next year?" That is not at all what this is about. I am a professional and I take care to make informed buying decisions. This is simply NOT a case of selling last years cars off the lot. There is NO product to replace it and it is not a subjective debate. We're talking about a $3,000 price swing over-night for the SAME product that was only just released in the end of 2011 and has been heavily marketed as the key to unlocking this camera. I know they gouged me when I bought the upgrade. It really has no material value. It costs them nothing, but an SxS card. But it's because of early adopters like us that technologies like this become main stream. Screwing your clients (particularly your early adopters) is bad business anyway you slice it. Try charging a client 40k for the SAME project you charge another client 10k and we'll see how long you stay in business before you get run out of town. For those of you who now have the opportunity to get S-Log cheap, I am stoked for you - it's awesome. I have no gripe with you. But remember that we are the consumers here and Sony is the corporation, so don't forget which team your on. In the mean time, indulge me while I blow off a little steam in Sony's direction. Maybe they'll hear me and float me the new beta S-Hog technology I heard they are releasing at NAB.
Sincerely,
Pissed

"I want my two dollars!"
:happy:
 
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