Sell it all or wait

[J. Odoms]

So I've been building up a nice system

- 7D should be here in 10days, exactly, (BestBuy)
- indirails DSLRsmPro shoulder rig
- RedRock Follow Focus v1 w/Gears
- Manhattan LCD HD monitor w/battery plate & Shade
- Canon 50mm f1.8 (metal one)
- Sigma 18-55mm f3.5
- Sigma 55-200mm f3.5
- Manfrotto Tripod w/501 fluid head

and a few more odds and ends

This thread is simply to probe the community, regarding the best decision to make. Usually the community helps in major decisions, so here I am.

I want to know what your views are regarding this system, as is, with all of its positives, and negatives, what choice would you make.

Would you sell off everything in Lou of the Impending announcement of the RED Scarlet, who's prices aren't set in stone, but will be close to the $5K mark for a complete fixed lens system.

or hold on to this setup.

I ask this because of my concerns with the 7D's Rolling shutter, and Aliasing. I imagine any fast paced action sequences are almost impossible, or any shots from a moving vehicle recording landscapes also are useless. So what to do.

Red is supposedly gonna be announcing any day this month, and I would assume prices, as well as specs, and delivery dates will be involved with that announcement.

What do you guys think.

I'm extremely excited to get my 7D, as the pics have been awesome, but I'm questioning some of its short falls.

What would you do?

:violin:

 

[ydgmdlu]

So I've been building up a nice system

- 7D should be here in 10days, exactly, (BestBuy)
- indirails DSLRsmPro shoulder rig
- RedRock Follow Focus v1 w/Gears
- Manhattan LCD HD monitor w/battery plate & Shade
- Canon 50mm f1.8 (metal one)
- Sigma 18-55mm f3.5
- Sigma 55-200mm f3.5
- Manfrotto Tripod w/501 fluid head

Sounds like you're set!

Would you sell off everything in Lou of the Impending announcement of the RED Scarlet, who's prices aren't set in stone, but will be close to the $5K mark for a complete fixed lens system.

You feel that a 2/3" fixed-lens Scarlet, which will probably not even be released this year, which will probably be sold to current RED One owners first, and which will be guaranteed to have a more difficult and intensive workflow, is preferable to the entire camera package that you listed above, built around an APS-C camera with interchangeable lenses? Maybe it is preferable to you, but I'm just trying to make sure that we're clear on all that you're proposing to exchange.

I ask this because of my concerns with the 7D's Rolling shutter, and Aliasing. I imagine any fast paced action sequences are almost impossible, or any shots from a moving vehicle recording landscapes also are useless. So what to do.

Do some tests when you receive your 7D to see what is acceptable to you. If it's not acceptable, then just return it.

Red is supposedly gonna be announcing any day this month, and I would assume prices, as well as specs, and delivery dates will be involved with that announcement.

But those will ALWAYS be subject to change. It's pretty much company policy. I have a feeling that the announcement will, once again, be ballpark projections.

 

[J. Odoms]

I'm pretty sure the camera won't even be out this year, but if it happens to be the image quality from a 3K sensor has gotta be awesome. thats my thought.

And yeah regarding my system I infact am set, just a couple of purchases here and there. Extra batteries, a MatteBox, and obviously more faster primes.

 

[dadoboy]

J-
You do realize that the announcement at the end of October is just a revised schedule, with accurate pricing and specs? Those scarlets may be shipping next summer for all we know. You got a whole video setup now, plus an excellent stills camera and I envy you (though I could do without the indirails, and can't stand the manfrotto 501)? Sell it when you're Scarlet reservation # comes up which I imagine will be quite a while.

So I've been building up a nice system

- 7D should be here in 10days, exactly, (BestBuy)
- indirails DSLRsmPro shoulder rig
- RedRock Follow Focus v1 w/Gears
- Manhattan LCD HD monitor w/battery plate & Shade
- Canon 50mm f1.8 (metal one)
- Sigma 18-55mm f3.5
- Sigma 55-200mm f3.5
- Manfrotto Tripod w/501 fluid head

and a few more odds and ends


:violin:

 

[J. Odoms]

The rail system is merely for those tracking shots. It didn't seem wise to go with anything other than a shoulder rig for that, and the price was decent.

but why don't you like the 501

 

[ydgmdlu]

I'm pretty sure the camera won't even be out this year, but if it happens to be the image quality from a 3K sensor has gotta be awesome.

I can see some misconceptions here...

The 3K Scarlet is not designed to deliver a 3K image. The actual resolution will be much less after debayering. The final image should be optimal at 2K, which is not much better than 1080p HD.

Current DSLRs have higher resolution sensors than 3K. The GH1 has a 4K+ sensor. The problem isn't sensor resolution; it's how the sensor readout is being processed. DSLRs currently use crude pixel binning and skipping methods to down-scale, which is incurring major hits to the image quality. Once a proper down-scaling process is implemented, the image quality will be much more comparable to what RED can do.

 

[Jackson Miller]

It's cheap and not a true fluid head. I have the 503hdv because I couldn't afford anything better but if you can, you won't regret going for one of the better guys (Miller, Sachtler, Cartoni etc.).

 

[J. Odoms]

It's cheap and not a true fluid head. I have the 503hdv because I couldn't afford anything better but if you can, you won't regret going for one of the better guys (Miller, Sachtler, Cartoni etc.).

Thats kinda why I bought it. I was on a tight budget, in order to get all the components i needed, but it should perform decently with my setup, or at least thats what I'm hoping. I haven't had the opportunity to test it out yet, but soon i will.

 

[J. Odoms]

Once a proper down-scaling process is implemented, the image quality will be much more comparable to what RED can do.

Do you foresee this happening as a firmware update for the 7D, or will it possibly be in a new camera system altogether?

 

[Lucian]

I wouldn't be shocked if Scarlet gets shelved until further notice. 7d has stolen its thunder big time.

 

[J. Odoms]

I wouldn't be shocked if Scarlet gets shelved until further notice. 7d has stolen its thunder big time.

Its funny because thats exactly what i was thinking, and isn't it also ironic how on the month of the U.S. 7D release Red happens to Announce that they'll be Announcing, an Announcement, some undisclosed time this month.:violent5:

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Would you sell off everything in Lou of the Impending announcement of the RED Scarlet, who's prices aren't set in stone, but will be close to the $5K mark for a complete fixed lens system.

Where did you get that price from? At the moment nobody knows anything. From your concerns I would say wait and don't buy yet. If you can afford to hold off a few weeks you'll have a sense of what Red has in store and if you like what they're cooking they'll probably have a schedule (subject to change perhaps) of when cameras will deliver. Based on their track record of meeting release dates you could be waiting awhile. They have said they plan on getting this right and that means no beta release like Red One.

I ask this because of my concerns with the 7D's Rolling shutter, and Aliasing. I imagine any fast paced action sequences are almost impossible, or any shots from a moving vehicle recording landscapes also are useless. So what to do.

This hasn't stopped Kholi and others from shooting action scenes. The 7D isn't perfect, you can't find the perfect camera at this price point, yet. It is like all the other VDSLR's available more than adequate for film making and for people to learn and develop their skills. There's always something better around the corner and there's plenty of room on the fence. Again I say don't buy because you have doubts about it. Hold off until you're sure.

 

[alexdias]

Until the Scarlet (and Epic) become reality is very hard (and unwise) to make any assumptions.
Nobody, other than a few insiders (and they will keep it quiet) knows what's going on as far as price and deliverables.

If you have work to do and the 7D fits your needs, go for it.
When other options are available you can make an educated choice.

 

[Lucian]

Its funny because thats exactly what i was thinking, and isn't it also ironic how on the month of the U.S. 7D release Red happens to Announce that they'll be Announcing, an Announcement, some undisclosed time this month.:violent5:

I was in Samy's camera today in LA, the salespeople are falling all over themselves about the 7d. Salesman said he could get me one AFTER Christmas!

Interesting thing, he said the units they sold so far are to Still photogs who want to slide in to video. Dang poachers they are. Sammy's puts up some sales numbers too, not a small time operation.

 

[ydgmdlu]

Do you foresee this happening as a firmware update for the 7D, or will it possibly be in a new camera system altogether?

I don't think that it can be done with firmware. I think that the hardware isn't designed to do proper down-scaling. Supposedly, DIGIC V will do it, and it's rumored to be part of the 1D Mark IV.

The DSLRs' video functions can't compete with most of what the RED One can do, mostly because of the engineering compromises being made to enable that video functionality. Who knows how future products will compete? I was simply responding to the comment that you made that seemed to suggest that higher sensor resolution means better image quality.

 

[Eddy Robinson]

I wouldn't be shocked if Scarlet gets shelved until further notice. 7d has stolen its thunder big time.

AHAHAHAHA no.

Seriously, they are such different products. The Scarlet will have the ergonomics, the modularity, the super-high frame rates, the RedRAW output, and great, great image quality. Even on the 2/3" version. Red' stuff really is hot ****, although I can't stand the fanboyism over there and rarely post - it's so bad that it makes it impossible to read interesting threads by Jannard because there's 50 pages of 'ooh Jim I looove you please invite me to your Red Ranch' every time he opens his mouth.

So when they finally start putting out footage and commit to a release date, there's going to be a lot of pants-wettingly good imagery out there to back it up. Realistically you're not going to get one of their nice cameras without spending about $5k (because you'll need some damn accessories) and honestly I think it'll be wrth every penny in terms of image quality and probably ergonomics too.

The 7d is not the competition for the Scarlet, although many of us are going to go ahead and shoot with it in the meantime, and there will be features completed before Scarlet ships. The competition for the Scarlet is when Canon (or Nikon or Panasonic or whoever, but my hunch money's on Canon) starts dumping camera RAW at 24 FPS+. I guess this is what they're aiming for with the DIGIC V chips. It may not even be in the DSLR factor.

Consider that the 7d does 8fps burst mode, the latest Nikon thing does 14. Now that's not far from 24 but more imortantly that's very high-res sensors, like 15-18MP which is way beyond what the RED stuff shoots at or will shoot at any time in th near future (I don't think their medium ormat camera is going to come out before 2012). Canon already has a pretty good video form factor with the XL/XH series and a xVX#00 clone with the GL/GH series. It would not be a big deal for them to pop a s35 or full frame sensors with true post-bayer 4k or similar, they already have glass, and now they have a strategic partnership with Adobe. If they bring out a camera with some RAW video codec of their own, you can probably bet on Remiere etc supporting straight out of the gate (adobe themselves are behaving very aggressively and taking full advantage of the recession to outflank the competition).

That's where my money says the big fight will be, anyhoo. As for the OP, of course don't sell now - you could be waiting for ages, and if you do you'll go through agonies of frustration. Shoot, have fun, make some money!

 

[Lucian]

AHAHAHAHA no.

Seriously, they are such different products.

Did you read the hissy fit Jannard posted (and wisely deleted) at RED forum regarding the 7d release? Make no mistake, RED took one in the gut. You could feel it in Jannard's rant.

The 5d was the first Minnow over the transom, the 7d was a Barracuda, Nikon is going to answer as well. If I were Jannard I'd throw Scarlet overboard and concentrate on the high end market.

People are acting like Scarlet will rival RED ONE, I doubt that, unlike Canon and Nikon, they have to protect their high end line. There has to be significant daylight between Epic and Scarlet in terms of IQ.

 

[J. Odoms]

As for the OP, of course don't sell now - you could be waiting for ages, and if you do you'll go through agonies of frustration. Shoot, have fun, make some money!

I've been leaning more and more towards that direction. I figure I might as well attempt to stash away $1K or so, just in case upon that announcement they decide to sell reservation spots. At least I would have one on hold, even if the release isn't but a year away, IF that were the case, but who knows.

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Let's not turn this into a Red bashing thread. There's too many of those already.

 

[ydgmdlu]

It would not be a big deal for them to pop a s35 or full frame sensors with true post-bayer 4k or similar, they already have glass, and now they have a strategic partnership with Adobe.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. As a few here (most notably Kholi, I think) have noted, one of the biggest things standing in the way of traditional-form camcorders with APS-C chips is the non-existence of fully-servo-driven AF lenses that are sufficiently fast (both in terms of aperture and focusing speed). Those are the kind of lenses that broadcast professionals expect, not still photo lenses. Remember that Panasonic reportedly spent several months optimizing the GH1 kit lens for video use, and it's still not a real "video lens." So I can't imagine that designing such lenses would be as easy as sticking an APS-C sensor inside of a traditional camcorder body.