SDI and HDMI

Jason Davenport

Jason Davenport

Well-known member
Had a brief look at the F-3 today at rental house, was picking up other gear. And we could not see where or how to output both, HDMI and SDI, only saw one or other. They had a cineroid VF and I wanted to see the picture on it, before I had to leave. Am I missing something, how are both displayed? What is process for both getting both outputs?
I thought we settled this, that both can be outputted.
 
If you go into the camera menu ... you can split the Dual SDI output to output SDI. Than you select in the VIDEO SET menu (third one) the HDMI output Not possible when camera system is set to 25P Well at least here in Belgium ... set to 50 i and the above is possible. This way you can have HDMI out and SDI out. Certain people think HDMI is only 8 bit ... haven't tested yet ... but that seems plausible. So HDMI only good for monitoring ... not to use output to AJA Ki Pro.
 
vanvideo said:
I thought all HDMI outputs were relegated to 8-bit, no matter the camera.
Click to expand...
HDMI is not limited to 8-bit by design or by spec. The only thing is, as far as anyone can determine, nobody so far has ever used more than 8 bits for HDMI.

I wonder about the EX1R -- it has 10-bit SDI, and they added HDMI in the "R" update, so ... surely, if any camcorder is outputting 10 bits on the HDMI, it'd be the EX1R?
 
Nope, checked the ex1r myself. 8-bit, confirmed by SAW test pattern. This is why I'm pretty sure the f3 is 8-bit out of the hdmi as well.
 
Interesting. So, as far as we know then -- there is no 10-bit HDMI camera out there at all, anywhere, right? Or does someone know of another example?

Seems like the Ninja is kind of stuck then, if the camera makers won't give it what it needs, then one big advantage goes out the window. Yet another reason that you should always use SDI for recording instead of HDMI, especially on something like the Ki Pro Mini that gives you a choice...
 
Yup. Only one I can think of with a slight possibility is the f3, but given it's heritage, I doubt it. I also recall someone posting a talk he had with one of the sony people and he asked about 10-bit via hdmi. The rep said "I don't believe so".

Only way to tell is an intensity shuttle, or the ninja. The ki pro might work, but I'm not sure if it does 10-bit over hdmi. Anyone with an f3 and one of these - go into the service menu and tell it to output a SAW pattern. Bring the footage into an editor or a frame into photoshop and see if the gradient has 1024 levels or 256.

But you're right, SDI is just better all around. Much easier/cheaper to run long lengths as well.
 
HD Studio Belgium said:
If you go into the camera menu ... you can split the Dual SDI output to output SDI. Than you select in the VIDEO SET menu (third one) the HDMI output Not possible when camera system is set to 25P Well at least here in Belgium ... set to 50 i and the above is possible. This way you can have HDMI out and SDI out. Certain people think HDMI is only 8 bit ... haven't tested yet ... but that seems plausible. So HDMI only good for monitoring ... not to use output to AJA Ki Pro.
Click to expand...

Just saw this and dont understand it. I dont see a way to do this.
 
Does anyone know if sony plans on a firmware update to allow both at the same time?
 
On professional sets, HDMI is usually not found. Regarding the new F3, what does everyone want the HDMI for? Unhappy with EVF options?

About 99% of my camera outputs on production such as video village connections and etc, are HD-SDI. Most professionals prefer the BNC connection for robustness and ability to 'lock-in'. In-fact, most R1's, including mine, has velcro over the HDMI ports... because they are never, ever used and it's a good accessories mounting location, such as a wireless receiver for audio or a wireless FF system.

I'd prefer HD-SDI every day of the week and recommend it.

As asked, what do people desire the HDMI ports for in the F3?
 
HDMI and SDI together 100% DOES NOT WORK. Also, the BNC SD video out is also disabled when using SDI. This monitor-out issue is the number one thing that Sony failed with on this camera.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
On professional sets, HDMI is usually not found. Regarding the new F3, what does everyone want the HDMI for? Unhappy with EVF options?

About 99% of my camera outputs on production such as video village connections and etc, are HD-SDI. Most professionals prefer the BNC connection for robustness and ability to 'lock-in'. In-fact, most R1's, including mine, has velcro over the HDMI ports... because they are never, ever used and it's a good accessories mounting location, such as a wireless receiver for audio or a wireless FF system.

I'd prefer HD-SDI every day of the week and recommend it.

As asked, what do people desire the HDMI ports for in the F3?
Click to expand...

Of course I use SDI for monitoring etc. Point is for a VF. Once the F-3 is in the correct position on your shoulder the LCD in in your nose! All other rigs I seen, have the camera in front of you chest and that would last about 20mins before your arms gave out. That's what I figured with the HDMI being 8 bit and SDI 10bit. That's why they are not working together

Thanks Cinesin.
 
I thought I remembered during an online video presentation, the HDMI out on the F3 was 10bit 4:2:2. We will need somone to test it to verify.
AFAIK, the 4:4:4 upgrade option will allow simoultaneous output of HDMI and SDI. I can't remember the link at this time.
 
Cinesin said:
HDMI and SDI together 100% DOES NOT WORK. Also, the BNC SD video out is also disabled when using SDI. This monitor-out issue is the number one thing that Sony failed with on this camera.
Click to expand...
SDI and HDMI together 100% does work... but only in interlaced formats. It stops if you try to shoot progressive, but this is apparently going to be fixed by a free firmware upgrade very shortly. Just set the dual output to SDI first (use A or B 1.5G) and the main video menu to HDMI. They'll both work!
:thumbsup:
 
Ok to clarify all of this, there is a firmware update coming out by sony which will allow both SDI and HDMI to work at the same time in all frame rates. There should be no more worry about this, just gotta wait for that email/post to come for the firmware.
 
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