Screw Premiere - I'm switching to Vegas

C

c.g._eads

Veteran
After spending the last 12 days trying to figure out why P2.0 won't capture from my camera, why scene detect wouldn't work even if it did, why it won't play audio from time to time --- for no apparent reason (as it will just come back on when it feels like it), and why for the past 7 days I've been trying to do something as simple as get my editing program to see the video that I hve imported into my project (instead I get the generic "media pending" screenshot), I've decided to leave Premiere in the dust, where it belongs. I'm sick of it. And the more I look back at my experiences with this program, the more I realized that every single project I worked on (most of them very small) I've always run into at least 5 and usually closer to 15 glitchy problems. The only reason I didn't switch from it earlier was because I was used to the software and Macs cost way too much. To me, Vegas always looked kind of weird. But I've heard nothing but good things about it and it's native support of HD (read: "footage that doesn't say 'media pending' when you import it") was enough to sell me. That and sitting at my computer for the umpteenth time trying out a different solution and then coming to the realization, "I've spent the last 12 days doing nothing. I set out to edit my project almost 2 weeks ago and I haven't edited a single frame.". That's when it hit me that I was done with this program.

My experience of searching endlessly through the internet these past two weeks has taught me a lot about Premiere. I've read through countless posts in upwards of 6 different premiere related message boards. I know these boards only deal with users' problems and therefore are not indicative of the product's quality. But the thing I kept finding, more than any other piece of software that I've ever had to troubleshoot, is the level of frustration users have with this software. What should be fairly straight-forward offerings from a company are simply ignored. Do you know you can't export a full 1080i video back to tape through Premiere 2.0 for more than 6 minutes? Adobe, after blaming everybody but themselves over a period of months, finally came forth and admitted this. Then said they didn't know if they'd ever offer a solution. These kinds of things are unacceptable in my opinion. And even if someone comes around and says "oh they fixed that" or "oh, there's a workaround" or "it's taken care of in CS3", I don't care. Because the problem is emblematic of who they are as a company and how they approach their product. There are little glitches like that all over the place and I'm sick of it. As a result I've decided to terminate my relationship with Premiere and move on to Vegas, even if it means learning a whole new program. I figure I'll waste way less time learning how to use Vegas than I will troubleshooting all my projects in Premiere. So..... adios Premiere!
 
The ONLY reason I'm replying to this thread is because of timing I saw the title as I scrolled down the main page... otherwise I never would have even seen it... and I think there's always potential for the "mac v. pc" type of thing blowing up... but I came from 5 years of premiere and thought I'd never go to Vegas because it looked all wonkey to me also... but let me tell you... after not even a year on Vegas... there is NO going back. Vegas completely changed my perception of how easy editing a video should be.

In all fairness... there isn't a good titling function in Vegas... you gotta' get that some other way... but aside from that one caveat... I couldn't be happier... and it was GLITCHES, bugs, and crashes that pushed me away from premiere... all of which Vegas does not suffer.
 
well, I am so sick of Premiere that I'm willing to go with Vegas knowing absolutely nothing about the program. Mattin's experience is one I hear very often, however.
 
I have been with Premiere for years and every time I up grade I wonder why. I have been met with as many problems as fixes in the last version. I think fixes should be free not the next version.

So here I am with Ppro 2.0 considering upgrading to CS3. I went to 2.0 for the HDV capability now I have to buy “neo” at minimum $250 (and that is without a realtime render engine) because everyone says that is the only way to get good video out of HDV. Why is that not included in Premiere?

I am starting to think the Premiere is nothing but an expensive place holder for expensive plugins. The workflow for getting a good looking video out of HDV in Premiere is ridiculous.

I said this last time I upgraded that I was going to look a Vegas and something turned me off. Now here I am again. Should I buy another plugin and hope it works with the new Cs3 or buy Cs3 and hope it works without the plugin, and if (when) it doesn’t wait for the new plug in that will work with Cs3.

Why do I keep sticking with Premiere? I know it is the promise of integration with after effects. Why do I have to go to after effects for things that should be available right on the Premiere time line? OK, I am better now. I am off to Cineform website to look at NEO.
 
Vegas has historically been absolutely fantastic. Rock solid reliable, and it could edit absolutely anything you threw at it. FCP people are excited about the "open timeline"; Vegas had that back in Version 4.0, around four years ago! You could open almost any kind of file in Vegas; you could put HD and SD on the same timeline; you could put PAL and NTSC on the same timeline; you could put 50i and 24p on the same timeline. You could put JPGs or PICTs or MOVs or even Animated GIFs right on the timeline. You could even drag the .VOB files off of a DVD and edit those right on the timeline!

But all is not as it was. Since Sony bought Vegas, it's headed on a more proprietary bent. It started with the HVX, where Vegas wouldn't support the MXF file structure -- Vegas only supports Sony MXF files. It continues with AVC-HD, where Vegas only supports Sony AVC-HD: if you have a Canon or Panasonic AVC-HD camcorder, Vegas currently won't work with it. For that reason, I advise that someone who intends to work with non-Sony equipment to carefully evaluate whether Vegas does what they need. If it doesn't currently support your intended equipment, and that equipment is made from a company other than Sony, then you may want to consider as to whether Vegas will ever adapt to support that equipment.

I've used Vegas with the HV20, it works fine but it cannot (by itself) remove the 2:3 pulldown from HV20 files. There are posted workarounds elsewhere, that involve using VirtualDub or other workarounds.
 
Since we're basically throwing NLE bugs into the ring, what are the downsides to Avid? I'm also a disheartened Premiere user.
 
"c.g._eads", it sounds like your having hardware issues or issues with your system running PPRO. i can certainly understand your frustration, and if that happend to me i would be quite fed up as well. but its really not a typical situation for someone running PPRO to necissarily say that the software istelf is somehow inferior. youll find bugs and fixes, hardware compatability issues, features you know they could have but dont for some rediculous reason if any at all, and general pains in the butt a plenty accross the board of every edit package out there. although ill say with complete understanding that vegas is a much easier tool to use. although I prefer the workflow of say FCP or PPRO as well as the wide range of professional plugins , and synergized interconnectivity with other pro apps available for them, to the more consumer-like interface of vegas. now to barrys point, vegas is very forward looking and always seems to be among the first to incorporate new functionality with ease. and the vegas people seem to much more readily listen to what thier users want, and get it done sooner. but the beauty about the entire thing is that it really doesnt matter what i like, or what you like. just use whatever your most comfortable with and what does the trick and lets you maximize your creative potential without maximizing your frustration. its just a tool. some people may prefer spoon to a fork, but they can both get the job done. ..mac.. pc .. PPRO. FCP , Vegas, Edius, AVID, whatever... im not saying you should stick with PPRO, or try FCP , or anything like that. im just saying, for whatever reason.. if the shoe doesnt fit, just get one that does, and realize that the first one you tried works perfectly for alot of OTHER people, even though it may not be what suits you the best.

im not trying to play devils advocate here or anything juvenile like that. honestly im always just a little leary of the "the grass is greener somehwre else" posts within a section like this because any threads that start out with a bridge to burn and a bone to pick are only likely to end worse than they started, and even at best, it doesnt really contribute anything. i mean .. here we are 11 posts later and aside from barry's advice as to what to consider when thinking about using vegas, nothing has been accomplished or started that is of any benefit of the community. my post included. so perhaps we could take this in a positive direction with either some sort of actual constructive search for information or something else beneficial to the PPRO section, or we could just let it die and hear from you once your comfortably in the vegas section seeking tips on your new kickin editing app :)
 
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Hey Neil, I do believe something's been accomplished. I admit that my frustration drives this post, but this is a post based off of 8 years of experience, and the point I'm trying to make is, if you're like me and extremely frustrated with this software but you don't change because you know it so well and you don't want to take the time to learn a whole new piece of software, maybe it's time to reevaluate if you're really saving any time.

I kind of want to give the Premiere users the wake-up call that all those problems you encounter on a day-to-day basis with Premiere, all those updates that never come, all those bugs and output nightmares... you don't have to work with a program like that. There are other options out there. KDawg said it himself. He's thinking about doing the same thing. And maybe this post changed his mind. I plan to keep this thread going with some updates about my experiences with Vegas to show just how easy or difficult it is for an 8-year premiere user to try a totally different program. So far it's great. I imported my HD footage without a hiccup and I was up and editing literally within seconds (instead of the 12 days I was waiting for in Premiere 2.0 -- I don't know how it can be a hardware issue if Vegas can handle it no problem) My only problem is getting used to the lack of a preview window, which I'm slowly learning is still there, it's just used in the same window as the timeline window and navigated into by using the trimmer. I like the ease in which you can stretch or condense time (right on the timeline), add effects, and the way the editor is built around how a person would think. Instead of how they want you to conform to. There's this really cool option where you can turn the video track bigger than the preview window. It's just cool. Not the nightmare of learning everything all over again that I had dreaded. Also, I did a search on google for "Sony Vegas tutorials" and a tutorial came up for first-time users. It gave me a quick introduction into the program so it wasn't so intimidating.

Anyway, I think this is more constructive than you think. I don't even think it's a Premiere vs. Vegas issue. I think it's a company that cares vs. a company that doesn't.

Best,
Chris
 
c.g._eads said:
Hey Neil, I do believe something's been accomplished. I admit that my frustration drives this post, but this is a post based off of 8 years of experience, and the point I'm trying to make is, if you're like me and extremely frustrated with this software but you don't change because you know it so well and you don't want to take the time to learn a whole new piece of software, maybe it's time to reevaluate if you're really saving any time.

Anyway, I think this is more constructive than you think. I don't even think it's a Premiere vs. Vegas issue. I think it's a company that cares vs. a company that doesn't.

Best,
Chris
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Actually Chris I do think that this thread aren't doing any good. I've been a Premiere user since version 6.5 and it has always work well for me. Neil definitely has a point that even though it doesn't work well for you, there are plenty of other users who are willing to swear by the product. How many of those people aren't responding to your complaints because they're busy editing on Premiere right now?

This is quickly becoming a one-sided laundry list of the ways in which Vegas are superior to Premiere, and sooner or later a Premiere expert is going to chime in and it's going to get out of control. I'm glad that Vegas is working well for you and if it does what you need, then that's great. But please understand that venting your one-sided frustration in order to discredit a product is hardly productive, especially since that same product has worked well for many other people.
 
jade8472 said:
I'm glad that Vegas is working well for you and if it does what you need, then that's great. But please understand that venting your one-sided frustration in order to discredit a product is hardly productive, especially since that same product has worked well for many other people.
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Well, I will agree there are issues within Premiere, some days they are more persistent than others. There are also posts complaining about Vegas, Avid, FCP... the only one you really don't see posts about is Windows Movie Maker. Hmmm...
 
jade8472 said:
Actually Chris I do think that this thread aren't doing any good. I've been a Premiere user since version 6.5 and it has always work well for me. Neil definitely has a point that even though it doesn't work well for you, there are plenty of other users who are willing to swear by the product. How many of those people aren't responding to your complaints because they're busy editing on Premiere right now?

This is quickly becoming a one-sided laundry list of the ways in which Vegas are superior to Premiere, and sooner or later a Premiere expert is going to chime in and it's going to get out of control. I'm glad that Vegas is working well for you and if it does what you need, then that's great. But please understand that venting your one-sided frustration in order to discredit a product is hardly productive, especially since that same product has worked well for many other people.
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I continue to insist that this is not Premiere vs. Vegas. This is "Premiere has screwed up for the last time" and Vegas is the only other real professional option for the PC that doesn't cost thousands of dollars. I think I've put forth a convincing argument for why this program isn't worth it and you'll be hard pressed to find people who use Premiere extensively and don't run into major problems, bugs, crashes, and shortcomings. Am I telling anybody who loves the program to ditch it? No. I'm happy that Premiere works for you. Am I telling the people who are fed up, on the fence, and afraid to learn a new program to think about changing? Yes, I am. And if that makes them more productive editors, then this thread is doing some good.
 
c.g._eads said:
I think I've put forth a convincing argument for why this program isn't worth it and you'll be hard pressed to find people who use Premiere extensively and don't run into major problems, bugs, crashes, and shortcomings.
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I think I can say the same about Vegas, which is why we have a entire subforum on it. If I do a search right now, will I be unable to find Vegas users who have problems with their NLE? There's always room to grow and improve on a piece of software to increase the feature set and stability. It's difficult to say that one software is better or more stable than another because ultimately you have to look at the big picture. How many Premiere users are there? How many Vegas users? How many of them are represented on a forum like this one?

You say that Premiere is buggy, prone to crashing and lacks the features that you want. Does that necessarily applies across everyone who is using that software? Maybe for every user that runs into problem and post about it on msg boards, there are ten others for whom the program work just fine and don't feel the need to say anything.

It should just be this: if the program do what you need, use it. But please don't make generalization like this because it serves no purpose whatsoever.
 
I use Premiere and like it. I have had no problems capturing or editing with it. I love the integration with the rest of the suite, especially AE.

I also use NewTek's Speed Edit. It is awesome realtime any format editing. I really like realtime color correction, make a tweak hit play, no renders. So, it really depends on the job that I am doing on which NLE to use. I haven't used Vegas but I would easily recommend Speed Edit.

Curtis
 
i have not had 8 years of experience with premier, but rather around 5, and have yet to experience these glitches that you explain.
 
I've been using it since 4.5 or so, and they happen at times. My biggest issue of late, is the capture window hanging/ crashing. Could be I need more Ram, or just a different kind. It used to work fine with 1 Gig, then I got two sticks of 500meg, a faster processor, and a different but compatible board... and it has issues. One month I'm doing the Snoopy Happy Dance, the next month I'm cussing at Premiere.
 
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