Scarlet Announcement

[Barry_Green]

I think Red learned some lessons the hard way this past year. I'd bet the proposed dates are within a month or two.

Personally, I would be willing to wager that the Scarlet ship dates are going to be tied to the Epic date. As in, if the Epic ships quickly, if it emerges from the beta test/tattoo program quickly, then Scarlet will come out that more quickly. But if the Epic takes quite a while, then Scarlet will be delayed.

Red's first priority is (and should be to) the Epic customers. They shouldn't and probably won't divert attention away from the Epic to the Scarlet. So, as far as realistic ship dates go, I'd pay attention to the Epic to see how it proceeds, because I think it's entirely reasonable to say that Epic's progress will directly influence Scarlet's progress.

 

[ChipG]

I have to ask was anyone surprised by the size of the scarlet?

it is a lot smaller than I thought it would be. I can see pros and cons to that as well.

It looks to be about half the size of the red one. I dont know more speculation but thats all we have anyway.

I was, the pic of it by the nikon d3 got my attenton more than any other pic or render of it.

So this thing doesn't even have a 3/8 inch hole to mount it to a tripod? That can't be right?

 

[chrislancaster]

I was, the pic of it by the nikon d3 got my attenton more than any other pic or render of it.

So this thing doesn't even have a 3/8 inch hole to mount it to a tripod? That can't be right?

I cant confirm but over on scarlet user they are saying it has the tripod mounts on the bottom


the fixed scarlet is smaller than a canon hfs10 ? or similiar size if so no thanks .. i like the idea of having the red one size just cheaper

The idea of a "glove" or another organic way of controlling the cam is crazy and I love it would be awesome to see the director ..

standing there waving his arms like a conductor of a symphony because in many ways he is ..
:grin::grin:

 

[chrislancaster]

Personally, I would be willing to wager that the Scarlet ship dates are going to be tied to the Epic date. As in, if the Epic ships quickly, if it emerges from the beta test/tattoo program quickly, then Scarlet will come out that more quickly. But if the Epic takes quite a while, then Scarlet will be delayed.

Red's first priority is (and should be to) the Epic customers. They shouldn't and probably won't divert attention away from the Epic to the Scarlet. So, as far as realistic ship dates go, I'd pay attention to the Epic to see how it proceeds, because I think it's entirely reasonable to say that Epic's progress will directly influence Scarlet's progress.

agree 100%

so that means if they have a date for Scarlet as June ..

Epic would be April , may

So Epic april/may

scarlet / june

sounds good

 

[Chamber005]

agree 100%

so that means if they have a date for Scarlet as June ..

Epic would be April , may

So Epic april/may

scarlet / june

sounds good

And I will look for EX1s and Mark 5D IIs on ebay in July...

Awesome possum!

:beer:

 

[Stephen Mick]

I heart Stephen Mick.

And yet Barry Green has not accepted my Facebook friend request. I'm confused.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

these are the ports on the back of the 8x fixed for anyone interested.

real photo:

Oh. and you can see the tripod mount on the bottom. Don't know where people got the idea that there is no way to mount it to the tripod. Never heard any such thing.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Don't know where people got the idea that there is no way to mount it to the tripod. Never heard any such thing.

I heard there is no way to hold it either, unless you buy special RED magnetic gloves.
Without those, it will simply slip out of your hands.

I don't know, that's just what I heard.

 

[chrislancaster]

I heard there is no way to hold it either, unless you buy special RED magnetic gloves.
Without those, it will simply slip out of your hands.

I don't know, that's just what I heard.

HAHA hilarious :grin:..rumors spread fast


some things sound crazy but when something new comes out thats different and being sold as revoultionary you really cant assume anything.

Maybe RED would have a reason not to. Dont know what but doesnt mean it cant happen

 

[ChipG]

Oh. and you can see the tripod mount on the bottom. Don't know where people got the idea that there is no way to mount it to the tripod. Never heard any such thing.

Thanks :thumbup: I thought it sounded a little far fetched to not have a screw hole for a tripod mount.

 

[ChipG]

Jason, do you know the deminsions of the scarlet?

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Jason, do you know the deminsions of the scarlet?

What are the dimensions of a D3 - you could probably get a pretty close approximation looking at that side by side pic, and then extrapolating that info to figure out the depth from the Scarlet side view pic....

.... I'm just too lazy to do it myself.

 

[Zacatac]

What are the dimensions of a D3 - you could probably get a pretty close approximation looking at that side by side pic, and then extrapolating that info to figure out the depth from the Scarlet side view pic....

.... I'm just too lazy to do it myself.

I did a little photoshop measuring, the Redmote is about the size of a Ipod Touch, just thicker, as for the rest of the Scarlet, didn't measure... lol

 

[Luis Caffesse]

My GUESS would be around 3-3.5" wide, roughly 6" tall....and maybe 3.5-4" deep
(just for the Brain itself)

But - just a rough estimation based on the D3 pic.
I could be way off.


EDITED TO ADD:
Looked up the D3 specs -

H x W x D = 6.3 x 6.2 x 3.4" (160 x 157 x 88mm)

 

[VGurcu]

No matter what, Scarlet = expensive

I agree with Stephen.
A proper Scarlet cinema 2/3(interchangeable) camera can easily hit $10K without a prime lens kit. And if you want to add a HD zoom lens you are easily around $20K.
Sony PMW-350 will be sold for $22K that comes with Fujinon 16x HD lens. What is more it has 3x 2/3 CMOS chips, as opposed to 1 CMOS Red Scarlet.
So in my case(event videographer, a zoom lens is a must)) Scarlet is far from cheap.
Also HD zoom lenses are designed for 3 chips, do we even know that these lenses will fit into a single cheap camera like Scarlet???

Here is the $Million question:
If Sony produced PMW-350 with a single 2/3 CMOS as opposed to 3, how much cheaper would it be? -Is it even possible?{ Cause if it is, expect Sony to come up with one before RED.}

Not:Yes you can argue that Scarlet has better functions like higher frame rates & little bit better codec & just a little bit more resolution, but aside from that remember it is after all a single chip camera...And the fixed version has a very limited optical zoom(8x not enough for me)

 

[killacam]

I agree with Stephen.
A proper Scarlet cinema 2/3(interchangeable) camera can easily hit $10K without a prime lens kit. And if you want to add a HD zoom lens you are easily around $20K.
Sony PMW-350 will be sold for $22K that comes with Fujinon 16x HD lens. What is more it has 3x 2/3 CMOS chips, as opposed to 1 CMOS Red Scarlet.
So in my case(event videographer, a zoom lens is a must)) Scarlet is far from cheap.
Also HD zoom lenses are designed for 3 chips, do we even know that these lenses will fit into a single cheap camera like Scarlet???

Here is the $Million question:
If Sony produced PMW-350 with a single 2/3 CMOS as opposed to 3, how much cheaper would it be? -Is it even possible?{ Cause if it is, expect Sony to come up with one before RED.}

Not:Yes you can argue that Scarlet has better functions like higher frame rates & little bit better codec & just a little bit more resolution, but aside from that remember it is after all a single chip camera...And the fixed version has a very limited optical zoom(8x not enough for me)

a little bit better codec? isn't the pmw-350 mpeg-2 at 35mbps? and 4:2:0? sure you could add a nanoflash to it to get it to 100mbps and 4:2:2 but that's 3 grand. also, the scarlet fixed is $4750. that's a lot less than the $20k the 350 will go for. the pmw-350 does look nice though and might be better suited for ENG use.

the hpx500 might be a better comparison. it's a 2/3" camera at around $10k, but it also does the same pixel shifting that the hvx does.

 

[Duke M.]

Personally, I would be willing to wager that the Scarlet ship dates are going to be tied to the Epic date. As in, if the Epic ships quickly, if it emerges from the beta test/tattoo program quickly, then Scarlet will come out that more quickly. But if the Epic takes quite a while, then Scarlet will be delayed.

Many/most of the Scarlet parts are supposed to be shared with the Epic so I entirely agree with you.

The whole problem with this announcement is that they don't even have a completed ASIC, they have to do the respin. That means they haven't done any testing of the software on that computer. What if other respins are required?

You don't often get software or chips bug free the first time. Remember they are on version 21 now for the Red One firmware, so those delivery dates are likely to be pretty soft for several reasons.

Also, I seem to recall that they promised the first Scarlets to current Red owners, didn't they? If they give 15 scarlets to big name directors, is that meeting the delivery date?

 

[philiplipetz]

that f1.9 isn't fixed throughout the zoom range is it?

There are lots of advantages (to me) that make it well worth the price. I'm not really into the whole debating thing too much over it though. Lots and lots of choices for folks out there and that will be out there down the line, that can work in more than one arena, and are effectively suited for multiple tasks.

Without going into debate, I'll just have to respectfully disagree with you that there aren't going to be a lot of folks interested in the 2/3" models. I've seen quite a few who are very interested and they are coming from all different areas. Everyone has their own needs/wants.

I think the differences will become more apparent to some folks as time goes on and these things finally make it into hands.

I can think of ex and hvx users who are seriously looking at a scarlet. I can think of gh1 and 7d users who are as well. I can also think of 7d users who came from a hv20 and are happy and content, and hpx users who are more than happy with what that camera can do for their needs and don't need/want a scarlet or some other camera.. And, folks who use several of the above mentioned for different tasks.

anyways...

To each his own.

Later,
jason

Jason has a great point when he suggests that Scarlet may appeal to new audiences of 7d/GH1 owners. I am such a person and will most likely place a order. People like me have no history with standard high end video equipment. We are obviously willing to accept new paradigms as long as they let us do things that were previously beyond our capacity. The fact that we were willing to accept the unusual workflows of video on digital SLRs has opened us to new ways of doing video.

I could go on but it boils down to competing viewpoints. Video pros ask how Red will let them work in normal ways. The 7d/GH1 audience does not care about old work flows. They just want the maximum power for the lowest price. This is what Red is selling at all levels. I was just at a demo of a Red One and the pros were not as thrilled as the Indie filmakers who did not care if Red made them work in a new way. They saw power now and ways to buy more power when needed with new modules.

This highlights perhaps the most important point about the 7d/GH1 indie market. This market NEEDS high end output but does not have the jobs to justify the approach I read here of "just buy something now and it will quickly pay for itself and then you can get something better." There are many quality conscious buyers who cannot view cameras as disposable. They (we) can only buy a system every five years (at best) and want something that will grow as needed. This is the Scarlet market.

Yes Red suffers from delays but Red had also shown that it continually upgrades existing products without making buyers get totally new hardware for each incremental improvement. If I am going to the max to get a camera I will have to live with for a long time this makes me feel good.

 

[Starshine Video]

I agree with Stephen.
A proper Scarlet cinema 2/3(interchangeable) camera can easily hit $10K without a prime lens kit. And if you want to add a HD zoom lens you are easily around $20K.
Sony PMW-350 will be sold for $22K that comes with Fujinon 16x HD lens. What is more it has 3x 2/3 CMOS chips, as opposed to 1 CMOS Red Scarlet.
So in my case(event videographer, a zoom lens is a must)) Scarlet is far from cheap.
Also HD zoom lenses are designed for 3 chips, do we even know that these lenses will fit into a single cheap camera like Scarlet???

Here is the $Million question:
If Sony produced PMW-350 with a single 2/3 CMOS as opposed to 3, how much cheaper would it be? -Is it even possible?{ Cause if it is, expect Sony to come up with one before RED.}

Not:Yes you can argue that Scarlet has better functions like higher frame rates & little bit better codec & just a little bit more resolution, but aside from that remember it is after all a single chip camera...And the fixed version has a very limited optical zoom(8x not enough for me)

a little better resolution?? 3k is a huge jump in resolution from HD.

Plus yeah the codec in the scarlet is way better and the ability to go to 120fps is a huge deal. Is it the right camera for a wedding videographer? IMO, no its not. But don't short change it and undersell its huge advantages in some attempt to prove your point.

 

[Barry_Green]

a little better resolution?? 3k is a huge jump in resolution from HD.

Well, yes and no. A true 3K worth of detail would be indeed a big jump over HD, it would mean a frame that was 2.5 times as big.

Problem is, the 3K on the Scarlet is Bayer, meaning it needs to be demosaic'd, meaning at least a 22% loss in res, and usually more like 25%. Which means, for practical purposes, shooting 5K makes for a really good 4K. Shooting 4K makes for a great 3K. Shooting 3K makes for a great 2K/1080p. Shooting 2K makes for a great 720p.

So while the frame size is a lot bigger on the 3K, the actual resolved detail won't be that much higher than 1080p. Of course, "1080p" means a lot of things; an HVX or 7D or GH1 only resolves a little more than 720p worth of detail anyway, so...