When I heard info about this camcorder release, I said, at last someone is doing something right. Then,BANG, I was wrong, Yes 100mbps is right and selective frame rates are great but a FIXED LENS. God why is a good HD lens 2 to three times the price of the DVX200 system. Well it HG GLASS a big difference and extreme wide angle if you need it. I Just hope Panasonic sees the light soon and offers a body only. DO IT RIGHT!
Sad about fixed lens
- Thread starter fluffy
- Start date
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Why would you want interchangeable lenses if the one on the HVX does everything you need?
How many XL1/s/2 owners actually bought more than one lens for their camera?
How many JVC HD100 users will use anything but the stock lens, when their optional HD lens costs an arm and a leg?
Fixed lens keeps the cost down, and makes the system more portable.
If you really need it, you can get DVCProHD with interchangeable lens if you rent the Varicam.
How many XL1/s/2 owners actually bought more than one lens for their camera?
How many JVC HD100 users will use anything but the stock lens, when their optional HD lens costs an arm and a leg?
Fixed lens keeps the cost down, and makes the system more portable.
If you really need it, you can get DVCProHD with interchangeable lens if you rent the Varicam.
thisiswells
Retired
The only other lens option for the HD100 is $13,000.fluffy said:
This shows your ignorance on the subject. Please, don't insult other members unless you enjoy receiving asinine posts in return (much like this one). :cheesy:fluffy said:
That's just flat out false. High end HD lenses cost a lot because they are very finely constructed and designed. The amount of light has nothing to do with the sharpness of the image. The panasonic lens will work just fine I imagine. Will it be the equivalent of a 12K lens? No, but then such a lens isn't designed for a 1/3" chip either so I doubt you would see much if any improvement.
fluffy, do a search. This topic has been well-covered in several threads.
Alex Leith
Well-known member
thisiswells said:
Play nicely children!
Shaw said:
I don't think what he said is *flat out* false. High end HD lenses use very presice optics which reduce chromatic abborations, reduce vignetting and improve the speed across the zoom range... all of which relate to allowing the maximum, unadulterated light flow to the CCD to give the sharpest image possible.
I thin that a low-cost DVCProHD camera body would be nice, but I doubt it would make much financial sense to Panasonic. They're selling the HVX into the same market as the DVX, and they've got a high end market to protect.
Plus, you're absolutely right... There aren't any decent HD lenses for a 1/3in CCD out there.
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
What fluffy says is true. The lens's clarity directly impacts the amount of diffraction and the amount of light making it to the imager. Less light on the imager means less of everything that is good (dynamic range and resolution by virtue of the lens' clarity)
This is why people are waiting patiently to see what the 13x lens will do for the HD-100.
It would be nice to have the HVX or DVX break down to camera body and allow you to have choices.
@jrv3034, The notion of the fixed lens is all you'll ever need may be selling your own skill, growth potential and needs short as a photographer. It also shortens the life of the camera (IMO) because with interchangeable lenses you basically get a different camera with different dynamics for each lens/body combination. It's versatility. The HVX's versatility is its variable frame rate and multiple codecs.
This is why people are waiting patiently to see what the 13x lens will do for the HD-100.
It would be nice to have the HVX or DVX break down to camera body and allow you to have choices.
@jrv3034, The notion of the fixed lens is all you'll ever need may be selling your own skill, growth potential and needs short as a photographer. It also shortens the life of the camera (IMO) because with interchangeable lenses you basically get a different camera with different dynamics for each lens/body combination. It's versatility. The HVX's versatility is its variable frame rate and multiple codecs.
Zack Birlew
Veteran
Fluffy, if the HVX doesn't do it for you, would you be interested in an XLH1 instead?
Yes, it's HDV, but when you get an appropriate deck, you can have all the HD and the lens options to go with it.
Yes, it's HDV, but when you get an appropriate deck, you can have all the HD and the lens options to go with it.
Indeed! That was what I was trying to get at and is the reason for the extra cost.
If I understand the optics correctly, quantity of light should not affect image quality (well, besides exposure but I'm talking inherent properties of light). What does affect image quality is the amount of light deviation you create inside the lens. Extreme wide angle and extremely long focal length lenses are harder to design due to, in the first case, the refraction of light and in the second, the distance between the deviation and the final image plane is quite large giving small errors much more distance and time to grow.
To a degree light is important because of diffraction but this is only with the lens wide open or closed down (one might think wide open would be better with the above theory). That's mostly a limitation of small CCDs (and one which won't be fixed by making a changable lens as it relates to the wavelength of light).
Clarity isn't directly related to quantity though. We need to look at divergence as I mention above. Now, for exposure reasons more light *per square area* (or density) is quite important. This is the reason larger chips have better signal to noise ratios (at least bigger chips with the same pixel count).
Probably very few, however the option to rent one is very helpful. It gives you room for more options and leaves you the choice to enhance your set of tools. I just finished a show today and we used an XL2 (I prefer the DVX's look, personally, but it was the DP's choice), and we had a really nice manual lens that was much nicer than the stock XL2 lens has to shoot with. I certainly wouldn't lay down tens of thousands of dollars for one, but if you can pick it up for a weekend shoot for under a hundred bucks and it makes a difference in the final product, then it would be silly not to take advantage.jrv3034 said:
Not having an interchangable lens isn't going to stop me from getting an HVX, but let's not fool ourselves... it would be a nice option to have.
if a camera has interchangable lenses, the camera will be calibrated for it's own and any lens you buy will be calibrated for it's own. Of course they fit 99,99% onto each other, but even if it's 1/100mm of dissonance, the camera with fixed objective is (hopefully) always better calibrated and camera & optics are just made for each other. A "team" for lifetime...
Jaime Valles
Veteran
stephenlnoe said:
Of course, I certainly don't speak for everyone here, just myself.
I agree that an interchangeable lens is ideal for all the reasons you just described. But, for me, those reasons are only good on paper. Take the XL2, for example. If you want automatic features and optical image stabilizing, you need the stock XL2 lens. If you want manual settings, the sexy manual lens is for you... except it doesn't have OIS. If you then want wide angle, get the 3x lens for the XL2, except then you lose the manual features of the other one... So to have all the features you want, you need to either buy or rent three different lenses.
Assuming the HVX lens is just as good as the DVX lens, I can't imagine needing to change it for anything else. True manual controls, true OIS, great wide angle built-in, and all the auto features just a click away. It's not a compromise or a happy medium. It's ideal. One lens that does all of the above exceptionally well. Plus, it allows the camera to cost less. Everybody wins.
Now, there is certainly a need for interchangeable lenses when you move up to broadcast or ENG cameras that have very specialized needs. If you have a $40k camera, you can choose the $20k lens that fits your needs best. It's all good.
For a $6k camera, however, I just don't see the need for additional lenses, if the fixed one does everything you need. The ONLY complaint about the DVX lens was it didn't have an incredibly long telephoto reach. And for those few moments when you're really far away, you can just slap a telephoto adapter in front of the stock lens, and it's still way cheaper than getting a whole other big lens.
To each his own. If you want DVCProHD with interchangeable lenses, get a Varicam for $60k, or the XL-H1 ($9k) and hook it up to a DVCProHD deck ($20k). I'd rather get the HVX with one 4GB P2 card for around $6800, and spend the rest on hiring a good sound crew. :thumbsup:
I don't know if this is a problem with video cameras that can interchange lenses.
In the still digital camera world, dust on the sensor is a big problem when you change lenses... and keeping the sensor clean is a huge nightmare.
On the teeny sensor on video cameras, dust and dirt would be foot-ball sized when viewed, and be impossible to removed.
The dust issue is non-existent on cameras that have fixed lenses.
For that reason alone I'm happy with a fixed lens HVX.
In the still digital camera world, dust on the sensor is a big problem when you change lenses... and keeping the sensor clean is a huge nightmare.
On the teeny sensor on video cameras, dust and dirt would be foot-ball sized when viewed, and be impossible to removed.
The dust issue is non-existent on cameras that have fixed lenses.
For that reason alone I'm happy with a fixed lens HVX.
wabbit
Evil has Ears
I for one like the form factor of the HVX for certain types of shoots. I would also like a cheap sholder mount camera to complement it. For now we have the SDX 900 and 800. Hopefully (and I have heard internet rumor...take that with a grain of salt) that a larger P2 DVCPro HD camera might be released in the next couple of years. It will probably be priced out of the range of what most people consider "prosumer" but to those looking for interchangable lens their pocketbook needs to reflect that. As has been stated before, if you want interchangable lens to be of any value you have to have a larger budget anyways.
If Panasonic doesn't release it, I imagine someone else will come up with something similar to fill in that market demand.
At least that is how I see it.
If Panasonic doesn't release it, I imagine someone else will come up with something similar to fill in that market demand.
At least that is how I see it.