Run away from nikon?

Im sure its a bit dodgy but still cool.

I think you should always have more FPS than your directors iPhone. Every camera maker should know that if you dont have more FPS on a $5k+ camera than an iPhone it leads to embarrasement on set.

In a designers meeting for cinema cameras it should go like this..

"do we have more FPS than the latest iphone?"
"no"
"OK - you better start again"

Clearly the A73 is the fancy spec camera with the least to make it smooth on a bigger production :)

Me considering spending the same money on an out of date cinema camera.. is a) mad b) extremely sane
 
well, I think it's true that a mirrorless camera will seem inferior to a "cinema" camera no matter what. especially if you're dealing with bongos or n00bs or whatever

and the a7siii has some rough edges - you can't fully turn off noise reduction or sharpening without going raw out.

but aside from lacking sdi and xlr and nd....which are all of course very important....it's a beast of a machine. and i bought a bundle of lenses and accessories for it along with the camera for $8200 all in, hardly more than the cost of some of these other cameras.

but I drooled over the c200 when it first came out. most of the RAW stuff I see from it looks fabulous. 4k60p raw without a crop keeps it pretty current. puredrifting is still outfitting himself with additional c200's for additional camera angles.

personally, i plan to turn over the fs7 for the fx6 if/when clients turn on to the fx6. i'm getting a bit of camera envy looking at all these canon cameras but i think my lens investment will keep me in sony for the foreseeable future. and i probably wouldn't need to remove my fx6 tophandle so it would be a much less compromised camera for me and looks like a wonderful unit in many ways

who knows, i may just stick with the fs7. i'm not offering myself as a movi pro owner/op with cinema camera so for my stuff it's fine that a7siii is on gimbal and my sticks/shoulder camera doesn't need AF as badly
 
ahalpert said:
who knows, i may just stick with the fs7. i'm not offering myself as a movi pro owner/op with cinema camera so for my stuff it's fine that a7siii is on gimbal and my sticks/shoulder camera doesn't need AF as badly
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Until a client is willing to pay for specifically the FX6, I would. It's paid for, right?
 
puredrifting said:
Until a client is willing to pay for specifically the FX6, I would. It's paid for, right?
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Yes and on top of that, the FS7 may generate more demand even though the FX6 is basically a better camera. The fs7 is familiar and has a reputation. and I have numerous clients who own their own and dont seem to be in a hurry to upgrade. It pays to own a camera that matches theirs.
 
I’m still rocking two P2 VariCams(announced 2008/purchased 2011), an OG C300(announced 2011/purchased 2013) and an F55(announced 2012/purchased 2015). All of them have worked in the last 3-4 months. I shot five days with my Vari the week before Christmas and one day with my F55 the week of Christmas. The OG 300 is the least used of my real cameras still in regular service, but I still like the soc image on the right profile. Heck, one of my guys just bought a (used) P2 Vari package from someone a few weeks ago.

My next real-cam purchase was probably going to be a Komodo, but there still isn’t a big reason to, with Covid-19 still affecting so many productions/events.
 
Run&Gun said:
I’m still rocking two P2 VariCams(announced 2008/purchased 2011), an OG C300(announced 2011/purchased 2013) and an F55(announced 2012/purchased 2015). All of them have worked in the last 3-4 months. I shot five days with my Vari the week before Christmas and one day with my F55 the week of Christmas. The OG 300 is the least used of my real cameras still in regular service, but I still like the soc image on the right profile. Heck, one of my guys just bought a (used) P2 Vari package from someone a few weeks ago.

My next real-cam purchase was probably going to be a Komodo, but there still isn’t a big reason to, with Covid-19 still affecting so many productions/events.
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Well, I think it helps that sensors haven't improved THAT much.

I feel like buying new cameras now is mostly about features. I bought a FF mirrorless camera for low-light and then traded that in for an A7SIII to get good AF. I think the A7SIII will satisfy me in that category until (if?) I need more than 4k. My FS7 may continue to satisfy me for non-gimbal work. we'll see if clients feel the same.

It would be fun to add something with AF that could get more reach/magnification from my e-mount lenses, which makes me personally more keen on an a7iv or a6xxx than an fx6
 
ahalpert said:
Well, I think it helps that sensors haven't improved THAT much.

I feel like buying new cameras now is mostly about features. I bought a FF mirrorless camera for low-light and then traded that in for an A7SIII to get good AF. I think the A7SIII will satisfy me in that category until (if?) I need more than 4k. My FS7 may continue to satisfy me for non-gimbal work. we'll see if clients feel the same.

It would be fun to add something with AF that could get more reach/magnification from my e-mount lenses, which makes me personally more keen on an a7iv or a6xxx than an fx6
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I think it may have been touched on/brushed up against on another thread, by NorBro I believe, but when you start out with high/higher-end equipment to begin with, it has a "longer shelf life", so to speak. Because it's going to generally have better image quality to begin with that may take the mid-to-low tier stuff several years/models to catch up or get close to, better/more features(like higher frame rates) and have that "recognition" and acceptance that's going to hang around for a while.
 
True, but doesnt it also depend on what the company releases next? The Amira is still going strong, but would it be if there were a mark ii? Look at the prices on OG Alexas (granted that lacking 4K is the big issue there)
 
ahalpert said:
True, but doesnt it also depend on what the company releases next? The Amira is still going strong, but would it be if there were a mark ii? Look at the prices on OG Alexas (granted that lacking 4K is the big issue there)
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Yeah, but the next thing out of the barn isn't necessarily the 'next big thing'. Looking at the C300 vs. C300mkII, I never saw that many mkII's compared to the originals, which were just ludicrously popular. Most of the time when I saw them it was either because someone had to replace an original or they never had an original and "needed a C300". I rarely saw anyone just "upgrading. And although the more I shot with a clients mkII's, the more I liked the camera, I never really saw a compelling reason to "upgrade". Maybe part of the reason was because any new capabilities that the C300/II had over the C300, I already had covered and better with my F55.

Slightly different, because we're talking about 2/3" vs. s35 cams, I bet there are way more 2700's out in the wild and still working vs. V35's and LT's.

The Arri's, while there have been numerous versions of the Alexa(but only one Amira, so far), they all use the same sensor and give you the same look, but to your point, (added)features are what largely separate the different models and generations(and of course larger sensors in LF's and 65). There are plenty of guys out there still rocking early Alexa's, because they still give you the same thing the new ones do, that Arri/Alexa look.
 
I had a very different experience. In NYC doc/corporate the c300 died pretty much when the C300mk2 came out. It was just about 4K. And I think that the C300mk2 would have been as popular as the C300 if not for the FS7. I think that FS7 success had a lot to do with 4K60p. canon was always lagging on slow mo capabilities until recently.

So, if your camera isn't up to spec, it doesn't matter how good the image is. But I've been using an OG C300 on weddings and HD stuff I do up thru early 2020. I recently put it in storage because I either use the FS7 instead for doc/corporate or I'm trying to downsize kit for weddings

But by the same token, I'm not sure I see the FS7 or C300mk2 being brushed aside in the same way because most of these clients dont need more than 4k or more than 60p
 
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The upgrade path.

I think that 2/3 cams and Vari/ALexa cams have been
-built to be the best they can (not hobbled) codec wise
-ergonomically thought through to be adequate.

The kids cams starting with the 5d have been ergonomically inadequate (no ND, pokey cables) and also hobbled.. making upgrades desirable (for example I bought a 7d because it had 25p while the 5d2 did not at that point) - I didnt want to do this but 'needed' to.

On this thread you wil note Ive talked little of image quality and all about 'pointy cables' and lack of ND (Things that are all good on a 2011 varicam)

In terms of quality (resolution) and upgrading the C300 hit the broadcast standard of the time (50mbs 422) the C300ii did too.. but who cared?

To the F3 owner tired of lugging a recorder aroud the C300 was appealing. To the 5d (moiree no filter no audio) the C300 was appealing. To the C300 owner the C300ii held no appeal because the C300 was already 'good enough'

THere are two types of camera buyer? Those wanting 'good enough' - production companies, salty old operators and those wanting 'the latest thing' (kiddo DPs). The C300 was 'good enough' at the time and being over $10 kiddos were not playing at that level.

back to topic?
As alipert says the C200 does 60 4k raw lite.. this keeps it current as no one much is poo pooing a 1gps codec. Most are stil moaning that it is too heavy (with good reason if the final delivery medium is a 4 inch phone)

With the FS7 I have a camera that is 'good enough' it is a generational standard (being 'the standard' from 2015 to 2020) but now I feel that with no AF and 2kg+ mass it is no longer going to be 'a standard'; the new standard will be sub 2kg and AF. Cheapest of that with proper connectors? C200.
 
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C200 or C200mk2 + 18-80 = boom (or 24-105 or 17-55 to save money)

then pick up a mirrorless camera for B camera (maybe after an overheat-free body comes out unless the current offerings don't spleen you)
 
Having a look at everything. Eos M50 has DPAF and 150mbs in HD (?) - could be a comic Bcam

Keep any nikon? What about my old 400 2.8 ?
Certainly keep all the manual glass ?
 
You mean the M50 mark ii? I'd probably go with the latest since autofocus keeps improving.

Isn't it 120Mbps in 4K but only 60 in HD?

I cant get too much detail on its video capabilities. Which seems like a bad sign. But hey if it's good enough for what you need it to do, then it's a steal

I was sort of thinking the same thing in sony if they come out with a 10-bit APS-C body. and can give me more reach/magnification with same lenses, especially if theres enough resolution to do 4k/hd crop

Re:lenses, I feel like it's a matter of discipline. When I bought the A7SIII, I didnt have any e-mount lenses and I told myself I was just going to buy the sigma 24-70 and be done with it. But then I bought a samyang 18 AF because it's nice to have autofocus on wide-angle gimbal situations (although you do have lots of DOF so really not the most challenging focus pulling), I got the samyang 35 and 85 because autofocus is very useful at f/1.4. I bought the sony 28-135 because I didnt have any servo zooms. And the tamron 70-180 because autofocus is really useful on a telephoto zoom.

But my Laowa 12 and zeiss 100 macro are manual focus only and still just as useful.

A 400 2.8 would be really useful to have autofocus for. But the canon version is $12k. Though they do have those cheapo slow RF super telephotos if you got an RF camera.

I guess if you're really going to live in canon world going forward then theres no harm in switching everything over to Canons. But no rush either
 
I just note that there are canon M (EVF, S35 chip) really cheap M50, m50ii - I ll read up on that.

This would give me a Bcam and walkabout cam

Lenses..

In my office is paul who is 15years into canon - 14prime ->400 2.8 - I have to organise to borrow - not perfect but an internal rental house!

We have a new quirk in that my nikkor D lenses work as manual focus with canon unlike the G which dont work at all (I think)
(With nikon Z the D lenses dont have AF) - this upset the cart in which I should chop in. G or D or both!

Anyway Im gonna keep manual nikkors whatever so for MF I have lenses from 18->300

So what AF canon do I need to buy?
Im guessin 70-200 (interview and general)
15-80 Slow small light RnG lens
60 macro - products on slider
10-24 tamron.. dont need AF here but in an S35 only world without boosters Id want a 10 for roomshots
The 15-80 probably wont be used much on 4k delivery jobs the B cam would also not be used for quality work.
So I guess primes 16 and 35 would be needed in time (or 16-35!)
I note really cheap STM lenses which have a good rep for AF?
 
Wait why dont all the Nikkors work with manual focus on EF mount?

Wow he's got the 400 2.8. Maybe an older version? That would be a lot of fun with autofocus

What is the 15-80? Is that the 15-85? Or the 18-80?

I'd take a close look at whatever macro you get. I think canon may perform better than sony in this regard, but I've been displeased with the focus pulling on most of my lenses at close range because it goes a bit soft and then makes a correction and you can see the fixed step in correction as the bokeh jumps abruptly. Not great. But my tamron 70-180 seems to be fast and smooth enough that the focus stays on the mark and the pulling is unnoticeable. And the magnification of the lens is decent. The actual macro lenses I've looked at for sony seem to pull too slowly. Also shooting at 60fps may help the autofocus system

I dont know the 10-24 tamron but I have the 11-16 and its practically unusable at 11 because it's so distorted. at 15-16 it's frigging awesome. I love my Laowa 12 which claims to be zero-distortion and is available in EF. It's worth its weight in gold. They make a 9mm for EF-M but not for EF-S I dont think. I don't know if the C200 does in-camera distortion correction

I dont know anything about autofocus performance on specific canon lenses. Maybe NorBro can chime in. It seems he's done a lot of research and experimentation with autofocus on canon
 
Good to hear.. your info

Im talking 15-85 EFs mainly for 'going to the park'

(update to my knowledge) The nikkor G lense DO work with ef - they need a slightly more expensive and fiddly adapter to niggle the iris lever because they dont have iris on the lens unlike D and F nikkors. (where D is screwthread AF) D and F (manual) can work with a $20 adapter of which I have 5.

I dunno about the 400, 10 years old I guess.

I have a tamron 11-24 nikkor G mount - I think it its great - I bought it with no expectations from a junk shop. Id need to get a canon version of something likee that. Or any EFs lens starting at 10.

Ultimately AF is not critical to me in the superwide class of lens, Im also not worried about it being a zoom so a S35 10 or 12 prime from Lowa or the like is very worth checking thanks :) I bought a 12mmSLRtragic for my GH4.

I 'learned lenses' before all these lenses were invented so up for ideas!

As for the macro 60, its a bargain, when Im AFing on my slider it is not too demanding its just making up for the paralax distance change.
 
You might just keep your tamron 11-24 in service. seems like it should work fine in manual focus

Before I had an ef-m43 smart adapter, I would put my electronic aperture lenses on a canon body to change the aperture and then mount it back on the gh4. Which is a crazy slow procedure but it worked

Come to think of it re:focus pulling I think the canon movie af will help your smoothness anyway. I think it feathers the focus move more than I can get on sony. You should be in good hands. My only regret about throwing in my lot with sony autofocus
 
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the C200. It remains an interesting camera in a load of ways.

But if you now own a C200, an FS7, and a Z6, probably with a slew of lenses, would not a reasonable alternative have been to sell the whole show to fund an FX6? Or does everything hinge on the audio & handle issues with that camera?
 
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