Rumor: Canon 4k super35 camera

I hope the two camera rumor has some truth to it. It would be nice to have a sub 8k 1080p or 2k camera with an EF mount. With an APS-C sensor, 8bit 422 internal codec, perferably HDSDI out but would settle for HDMI 10 bit out version in an XLH1 body. I pray that rumored 15k version is for the 4k PL mount "big brother" version of the camera. Two different cameras was one of the latest rumors on CR.
 
_JD_ said:
Another rumor going around that there are two cams to be released.
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An F3 competitor and another FS100/AF100 competitor (at the same sort of price points) would be fantastic. Particularly if they come with a broadcast ready codec onboard (like Canon's 50mbs 4:2:2 - preferably 10bit!).

What would be really interesting, is if Canon take on-board the love people have for the larger vistavision-sized sensor in the 5DII and give these cameras the larger sensor too (avoiding the more conventional S35mm/APS-C sensors that Sony and Panasonic have gone for).

It'd be a huge point of difference visually. And with lenses like the CP2s offering full coverage for the larger sensor. It would really be the limitation that it would have been a few years ago.
 
simonpwood said:
If you stick at it, it might transcend mundanity and become funny again....:happy:
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We all want to be a Monty Python...... ;-)

Apart from that: Canon hopefully knows that if they announce something in a manner as if we should expect the epiphany of a Godzilla-like being - they hardly can display a digital rubber ducky in the end without getting ridiculed by the community big time.

Anyhow: Interesting times.
 
I wonder if there is a printeruser.com where they are all debating the specs of the fabled November 3rd printer... and would be raging if a 4K camera appeared instead?
 
stockfuel said:
I wonder if there is a printeruser.com where they are all debating the specs of the fabled November 3rd printer... and would be raging if a 4K camera appeared instead?
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Then it might be time for you to step away from the interwebs for a while... :shocked:
 
TimurCivan said:
2k 4k would be awesome, but it is not happpening @ 50mbps.
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Yeh, the drive to 4k is pretty meaningless if you don't also drive the data rates up. Waaaaaaay up. And then you have to have the processing chain to cope with that increased data rate everywhere.

I'd be much more interested in a full HD camera with RAW-like readout onto SSD or P2 card than something with stupendous resolution that has to throw 99% of the information away to get it onto CF cards, personally. I'd certainly take 10 bit or 12 bit colour, good dynamic range and some way of putting off the choice of gamma as long as possible over 4K baked in!

Cheers, Hywel
 
Well truth is, the only reason a red costs what it does (25k, wich is cheap) is that it doesn't have a dsp to do a debayer, CC, scaling, compression, , it just compresses the RAW @ a fixed bitrate.

If the RED did all that, it would be thrice as expensive if not more, like an ALEXA. (3.5k to 1080p 444 ProRes)
 
Barry_Green said:
Here's what's fun -- this announcement isn't supposed to take place for, what, seven weeks? That's an eternity in Internet-time. Between now and then, I'm sure we'll see posts about how Canon "promised" a new cinema camera, and how "everyone knows" that it'll be MPEG-2 50mbps, etc.

When in actuality, Canon hasn't said anything at all. Only that they will be making "an historic global announcement". No mention of even what this announcement could be about. Is it a camera product? Is it even a product at all? Could they be announcing that they've bought Technicolor? Sure. Could they be announcing that they're reorganizing their divisions? Certainly. Could they be announcing that they're buying Columbia studios from Sony? Why not? They could announce *anything*. Canon makes photocopiers, they make fax machines, they make still cameras, they make broadcast lenses. Could it be new PL lenses? Of course it could, and that would be an entirely appropriate thing to announce in Hollywood. Could it be a new PDF-compatible photocopier? Of course it could -- because they did that once before, with an eerily similar announcement. In September of 2009 (yes, almost two years ago to the day) Canon put out a similar teaser saying that they would be making "one of its largest and most important launches in the company’s history." Everyone was SURE that it was going to be a large-sensor video camera.

It turned out to be a photocopier that could make PDFs, or something like that.

So here we are two years later, almost to the day, another similarly worded announcement comes up, and everyones CERTAIN that it's going to be, yes, once again, a large-sensor video camera. Because this time the announcement takes place in Hollywood...

Well, we'll see. I certainly would be very, very, very surprised if they had an AF100/FS100/F3 competitor ready this early. I would think expectations for a 5D Mark III are probably a lot more realistic than expecting them to have a large-sensor dedicated video camera ready. But it could be a photocopier. It could be that they're buying facebook. The "global" word is the key word here, and implies to me that it's certainly something other than a camcorder announcement.
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Well the possibilities of this being a cinema camcorder or something related to digital cinematography are higher here.

Choosing Hollywood as the venue here should give some credit to that.

Does anyone remember when they first announced the XLH1... they had a roadshow event at Paramount Studios in Hollywood. This could fall in the same vain...
 
Perhaps canon is getting into the film busines..... like how sony did. That would be cool. Certainly global, and historic.
 
I hope they don't do 4K. It would be too expensive and overkill for most people who can't afford a Red. Give me 2K, and do it right. Emphasis in latitude, cleanness, tonality, and true resolution. 2K done right > 4K done wrong.
 
I guess that's the thing I keep coming back to. How is another camcorder in a crowded market either "global" or "historic"? Now, if they've somehow invented some sort of 3D lens that lets you shoot full 3D on a single camcorder a lot easier, that might be historic. If they bought a major studio, that could be historic. But if they bring out a large-sensor video camera, they'll be no better than third to do that -- I mean, I guess it could be considered "global" in the same way that a Go Pro is "global", but would they really make an announcement to the effect that they're going to make an announcement of "global" and "historic" proportions, to introduce a "me too"?

So they could do 4K. Sure, but Sony has already announced that, Red's been shipping it for years, so what would be "historic" about that?

Now, if Canon bought Red, that would be global and historic. If Canon bought the Scarlet line off Red and introduced it themselves, that would be global and historic.

But another camcorder? I mean, back when the HVX200 was being introduced, Canon introduced the XLH1. Would anybody have considered the XLH1 introduction "global and historic"? Seems to me most of the audience viewed the XLH1 introduction as "yawn, a $9,000 HDV camcorder". So now we're in the same situation, Panasonic has their AF100, Sony has their F3 and FS100, Red has their Epic-X now rolling out, Sony's introduced the F65, Arri has the top end with the Alexa and newly-announced Alexa M...

... so what would be either "global" or "historic" about "yay, Canon has made another camcorder"? I mean, interesting to us, sure, but either "global" or "historic"? Sure doesn't seem to apply.

Now, if they were announcing that they'd become the exclusive supplier for all Panavision outlets, well, that'd be global and historic. Or that they'd bought Kodak and Technicolor... or ...

Well, anyway, I'm probably overthinking it. Remembering that the PDF photocopier was introduced to hyperbole as bold as "the most important announcement in the company's history", so ... anyway, we'll see in, what, six weeks now?
 
It's probably a lot of hype for an evolutionary (not revolutionary or historic) camera related product or technology.

My guess: a 1920x1080 hybrid stills / camcorder with XLRs, HDMI and their 50 Mbs 4:2:2 codec

OR

A closer TECHNICAL partnership with a Hollywood partner such as TECHNICOLOR or Deluxe

The hybrid camera would be a welcome addition to current AF100 / FS100 / F3 offerings. I doubt it has anything do with Ron Howard's initiative.
 
Barry_Green said:
I guess that's the thing I keep coming back to. How is another camcorder in a crowded market either "global" or "historic"? Now, if they've somehow invented some sort of 3D lens that lets you shoot full 3D on a single camcorder a lot easier, that might be historic. If they bought a major studio, that could be historic. But if they bring out a large-sensor video camera, they'll be no better than third to do that -- I mean, I guess it could be considered "global" in the same way that a Go Pro is "global", but would they really make an announcement to the effect that they're going to make an announcement of "global" and "historic" proportions, to introduce a "me too"?

So they could do 4K. Sure, but Sony has already announced that, Red's been shipping it for years, so what would be "historic" about that?

Now, if Canon bought Red, that would be global and historic. If Canon bought the Scarlet line off Red and introduced it themselves, that would be global and historic.

But another camcorder? I mean, back when the HVX200 was being introduced, Canon introduced the XLH1. Would anybody have considered the XLH1 introduction "global and historic"? Seems to me most of the audience viewed the XLH1 introduction as "yawn, a $9,000 HDV camcorder". So now we're in the same situation, Panasonic has their AF100, Sony has their F3 and FS100, Red has their Epic-X now rolling out, Sony's introduced the F65, Arri has the top end with the Alexa and newly-announced Alexa M...

... so what would be either "global" or "historic" about "yay, Canon has made another camcorder"? I mean, interesting to us, sure, but either "global" or "historic"? Sure doesn't seem to apply.

Now, if they were announcing that they'd become the exclusive supplier for all Panavision outlets, well, that'd be global and historic. Or that they'd bought Kodak and Technicolor... or ...

Well, anyway, I'm probably overthinking it. Remembering that the PDF photocopier was introduced to hyperbole as bold as "the most important announcement in the company's history", so ... anyway, we'll see in, what, six weeks now?
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Barry,

Your problem, is that you are thinking in LOGICAL terms. You need to be thinking 'marketing'. Since when has 'marketing speak' been adverse to exaggerating claims? I mean,
you are right in what you are saying, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit to see Canon introduce a 'me too' big sensor camcorder. They would just want everyone to believe that
it (not Panasonic or Sony's version) is actually 'THE ONE'. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me to see them introduce a REALLY COOL printer either.....I mean a printer of
'Historic and Global proportions). Maybe it's just REALLY big? (global proportions and all....)
 
If Canon introduces a 50mbps 4:2:2 DSLR style camcorder with an EF-mount... it would be historic in my marketing mind. THAT is the camera I wan't, not the e-mount or 4/3's. Not 24mbps AVCHD but 50mbps 4:2:2 mpeg2 which is enough for a lot of things. Doesn't have to be 4k. Doesn't have to be 3d.
 
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