Requirements for Entry

spidey said:
i think anyone with a good idea should give their best not everyone is lucky enough to make something ith certain resources. im lucky enough but even i struggle to make this happen. if it helps the person to figure out how to improve then i know it is good.

As long as you don't make udder poo poo then you're good in my book but try to improve from the last thing you shot.
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This is a good take; that you shouldn't care even if you lost -- learn from it. It's a nice attitude to have. But I'd rather have lost in a lightweight to lightweight match versus a lightweight to heavyweight match.

Envision said:
Secondly, there will get to a point that the major pros, probably wouldn't want to enter, as let's face it ... the larger majority of people that enter this fest are either just starting out, or still trying to learn how to maximize their camera (I'm in this category) ... so it'd be like a college grad wanting to enter a contest with a bunch of junior high kids. Where's the challenge for them? There wouldn't be much of one, and that alone will usually keep the big wigs out ... they want a challenge, just like most of us do.
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Well, there are prizes to be won... And a lot of rat bastards out there also like winning just for the sake of winning; even if it is against the "junior high". But I guess the "noobies" don't really care, as they're in it "for the learning experience" -- they simply feel gracious and inspired, right?

Geoff_R said:
I think the more restrictions that are placed on a film contest, the more it will dampen the creativity of those entering. As is now, all you need to do is shoot with a DVX or HVX and restrain your story to a certain time limit. This allows tons of creativity and results in a variety of work. If we impose budget restraints, camera constraints (jibs, dollies, steadies), sound gear constraints, all we're doing is limiting our creativity.
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Well, it depends on how you set the limitations. You could even argue that limitations give inspiration for more ideas; just like how each DVXFestival has a genre; it's easier to come up with ideas. But it does depend on the limitations. I'm really not sure how to set the limits or requirements, but hey; at least I'm bringing them out into the open for a discussion.
 
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Gordon JL said:
I'm willing to bet that eventually, if they (Martin Scorcese) entered each year, and probably won most of the prizes, you would all consider changeing the rules.
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Poo Poo that. Bring Scorcese on. I'm gonna be taking him on one day. Might as well start now.
 
Gordon JL said:
Well, there are prizes to be won... And a lot of rat bastards out there also like winning just for the sake of winning; even if it is against the "junior high". But I guess the "noobies" don't really care, as they're in it "for the learning experience" -- they simply feel gracious and inspired, right?
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Man, that's really condescending. There are all levels of ability within the DVX user community. The fests are done as a way for the members to show off their skills, whatever level they may be at. If you saw the Sci-Fest you saw some incredible shorts along side some shorts that needed some more work. As long as the forum was honest in their review, there was much to be learned and the members will only be that much better for it next time. I didn't hear anyone complaining that things were "rigged" against them. I did see jealousy raise its ugly head once or twice but it was squelched by their peers.

I think if you're in it for the prizes, you're in it for the wrong reason. I'm willing to bet that the prize winners could have purchased the prizes for less than they spent to make their production if that was all it was about.

Everyone wants to put their best foot forward and show what they can do. That's the real competition. Believe me when I tell you that you are going to see marked improvement by some members based on the feedback they received in the last contest. All anyone wants to do here is show and be proud of their work.
 
Alex DePew said:
Poo Poo that. Bring Scorcese on. I'm gonna be taking him on one day. Might as well start now.
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LOL. I'd take Scorcese on in a heartbeat. Too bad so many of the prizes reward the technical aspects of filmmaking... And I do like prizes...
 
well if we all know scorcese never won first place...... :-D so theres a chances for anyone.
 
Blaine said:
Man, that's really condescending. There are all levels of ability within the DVX user community. The fests are done as a way for the members to show off their skills, whatever level they may be at. If you saw the Sci-Fest you saw some incredible shorts along side some shorts that needed some more work. As long as the forum was honest in their review, there was much to be learned and the members will only be that much better for it next time. I didn't hear anyone complaining that things were "rigged" against them. I did see jealousy raise its ugly head once or twice but it was squelched by their peers.

I think if you're in it for the prizes, you're in it for the wrong reason. I'm willing to bet that the prize winners could have purchased the prizes for less than they spent to make their production if that was all it was about.

Everyone wants to put their best foot forward and show what they can do. That's the real competition. Believe me when I tell you that you are going to see marked improvement by some members based on the feedback they received in the last contest. All anyone wants to do here is show and be proud of their work.
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You do realize this is a contest right? Not some free for all special-olympics?

All jokes aside, I understand where you are coming from. It's important to enter the contest not for the prizes, but because you like telling stories. And I have no doubt that those who entered the contest will be proud of their work. But why not have the competition be fair, so that some contestants wouldn't feel jipped? And the last grand prize was a DVX! I don't know about you, but I wouldn't spend that much making a 5 minute film. The other prizes also seemed pricey; more than what I would spend.
 
Yeah, but that DVX was a USED DVX with goodness only know how many hours were on it. :)

Technically, we only spent $350 hard dollars on our short, PANDORA. But if we were to count production value (not how it looked, but what it would have cost), it would be up in the several thousand range, simply because of the deferred contracts that everyone signed. Even without deferred contract, a flim maker still needs to assume how much a film would have cost had they had to pay for everything (rent or buy), as it'll help them towards budgeting when they really do need to acquire the funds, etc.

And as far as learning a lot from the contests, I don't know about others, but I learn the most simply by going through the process & seeing what works vs. what doesn't ... I tend to not learn too much from people's feedback (there are a few exceptions), simply because by the time I've heard what was lacking, it's something I'd already realized and was planning on addressing in the next project I take on.

So even beyond the forums/feedback of the festival, it's the process of getting the hands dirty, so to speak, and getting comfortable with the nuts & bolts of everything so that you can improve with each one.

And having STELLAR films in the festival, inspires & motivates everyone to try harder, and ask those people the how to's, etc.
 
I guess it all depends on how you view these festivals. Personally, I prefer to view them as competition or contests (because of all the prizes at the end); which is why I want it to be fair -- it is a competition for amateurs afterall. I want the underdogs to get a fair shot. You don't pair a beginning beginner tennis player against a seasoned pro.

But a lot fo people are viewing this festival as more of a showcasing of talents; where "fair" doesn't really matter I guess.

Or, it could be both, in which case, I think fairness does matter. If I was to enter such a competition, and lost; I wouldn't take it hard at all. I learned a lot from the experience, and from my peers. But at least I would have known I had a fair chance.
 
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Gordon,
I know this thread is old, but I've been really busy.
I think you should look at this not as a contest where you are going up against "the pros" but instead as an opportunity to go do the absolute best you can with what you have at hand. I edited some footage with Movie Maker and because of it I got a gig doing thousands of dollars worth of work for an artist and now my work will be seen all over the country. Not because of the technical brilliance but because of what and how I shot.
Do not handicap yourself by thinking you are already defeated, unless you want to lose before you enter. Your only limitation is your mind.
Sure, sweeping crane shots and brilliant sfx are going to look great on screen, but what about the story. Look at the trash Lucas foisted off on us in the last Star Bores film.
Tell us a great story in the best way you can. Tell it from the heart and shoot it the same way. If you don't like the way it looks, go back and shoot it again until you do.
Handicapping a contest only leads to mediocrity. I don't want to win because someone else was hindered.
I want to win because when it was all said and done, my story was the best, my crew the best, my actors the best and my film the best.
(Remember this last line so you can repeat it to all of your friends when this is all over with.)
Think of the Little Engine story.
 
Gordon,
I can't believe the stuff that you've said. Imagine you're the professional and you've entered contest after contest being the amatuer and after losing a lot of them you got good and you became the professional. Now how would you like it if you entered a contest and they said hey Mr. Professional we are going to cripple you by making you work at the level of the amatuers that you tried so hard not to be? Do you think that's fair. In essence the contest is a fight open to everyone. If you can't hack it with the big boys and the little boys don't don your gloves and get in the ring.

I'm going to tell you a story. My martial arts teacher used to be an boxer. When he started out he was 17 training in the gym and they used to put him in with everybody pros and amatuers. Well one day the golden gloves champ comes in and they put him in the ring with him. During the first round while my teacher was back peddling he knocked him out. So the moral of the story is don't underestimate the little guy because he might kick your ass. Sometimes raw skill beats experience so don't be afraid or that will never be you.
 
Yeah! Ninja it up mother f'er! I will have next to NO equipment. I don't care about winning. I just want to make a fun film people will enjoy. There's no such thing as an amature or a pro. There's only 'a crappy filmmaker' and 'a great filmmaker'.
 
SilverWolf said:
Gordon,
I can't believe the stuff that you've said. Imagine you're the professional and you've entered contest after contest being the amatuer and after losing a lot of them you got good and you became the professional. Now how would you like it if you entered a contest and they said hey Mr. Professional we are going to cripple you by making you work at the level of the amatuers that you tried so hard not to be? Do you think that's fair. In essence the contest is a fight open to everyone. If you can't hack it with the big boys and the little boys don't don your gloves and get in the ring.

I'm going to tell you a story. My martial arts teacher used to be an boxer. When he started out he was 17 training in the gym and they used to put him in with everybody pros and amatuers. Well one day the golden gloves champ comes in and they put him in the ring with him. During the first round while my teacher was back peddling he knocked him out. So the moral of the story is don't underestimate the little guy because he might kick your ass. Sometimes raw skill beats experience so don't be afraid or that will never be you.
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Right on!
 
yeah ..."a brief case" had a phenomenal opening dolly shot ... and what did they do it with ... some small PVC taped to the ground. I was floored.
 
"ghetto from the get go" as they put it.

it's homemade but its a very thouroughly thought out and engineered piece of equipment designed by this guy:
http://www.dvcamerarigs.com/

I'm scared poo pooless on this one. I 'm blocked on my sript. I have NO money now ... not even to feed the actors and crew. And I have no idea if I can pull this off in NYC for no money with all stolen locations. Very intimidating.

These things kill me to put up -- both contests. I go days without sleeping to accomplish them, and I've never had a crew that wasn't just extra bodies -- meaning none of them are filmmakers, they were either sound design students or acting students of mine or friends from theatre or real estate or other real jobs or from camera acting classes. In otherwords you can't say "would you please get the wireless mics from the truck and wire this guy up" or "here's what I wan't to happen with the lights" I have had to do all that and they basically help.

that's why I kept it small for Shed and why ODD Squad was hell to get up.

having moved to NYC form New Orleans though there are users here that want to hook up with me to help on this one, so maybe that will be the trade of that will make it possible ... people that know what a 35mm adaptor is and could be asked to please screw it on thread mount style, rather than just greet me with dumb stares. My New Orleans swingshift crews were great in terms of work ethic -- they just didn't know anything and I've only been shooting since july ... and I have no mentor or training other than DVXuser ... ODD Squad --- A POO POOING SHOT LIST WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE -- never again will I be in that boat!

As Spidey said it's a struggle.
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
"ghetto from the get go" as they put it.

it's homemade but its a very thouroughly thought out and engineered piece of equipment designed by this guy:
http://www.dvcamerarigs.com/

I'm scared poo pooless on this one. I 'm blocked on my sript. I have NO money now ... not even to feed the actors and crew. And I have no idea if I can pull this off in NYC for no money with all stolen locations. Very intimidating.

These things kill me to put up -- both contests. I go days without sleeping to accomplish them, and I've never had a crew that wasn't just extra bodies -- meaning none of them are filmmakers, they were either sound design students or acting students of mine or friends from theatre or real estate or other real jobs or from camera acting classes. In otherwords you can't say "would you please get the wireless mics from the truck and wire this guy up" or "here's what I wan't to happen with the lights" I have had to do all that and they basically help.

that's why I kept it small for Shed and why ODD Squad was hell to get up.

having moved to NYC form New Orleans though there are users here that want to hook up with me to help on this one, so maybe that will be the trade of that will make it possible ... people that know what a 35mm adaptor is and could be asked to please screw it on thread mount style, rather than just greet me with dumb stares. My New Orleans swingshift crews were great in terms of work ethic -- they just didn't know anything and I've only been shooting since july ... and I have no mentor or training other than DVXuser ... ODD Squad --- A POO POOING SHOT LIST WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE -- never again will I be in that boat!

As Spidey said it's a struggle.
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I'm right behind you Jack. I've never actually done more than writing, and I'm scared as hell. I'm losing sleep, I'm burned out-- but I'm going to do it. I found help from some great DVXusers, and our collaboration is going to kick ass, whether it wins or not.

Good luck, to all of you.
 
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