Remote follow focus for £150/$300

emretufekci said:
Ok Kenny lets just look at it as re-selling Hofo. Lets assume I'm a re-seller.

-I need a shop/location (Rent, Utilities)
-I need multiple merchandise so people would walk in my door. (capital to purchase gear from manufacturers)
-I need employees (Workers comp, health insurance)
-I need to advertise (Website, ads)
-I need a shipping and accounting department (more people)
and so on....

For every $100 merchandise I sell as a reseller I would probably keep 3%-5% after expenses. MAYBE...

Let me ask you this again.

-If you need a RFF
-And you have the clientele
-But dont have the capital

Why not rent it? If you owned it would you rent it for free? No.

You would build it in the price. If your client asks for it, just bill them (with your margin of course).

I am wrong?
Click to expand...
Your talking about a reseller with capital behind him. Look at it from the Indian way. Just do all the selling by the internet and put your family at work.
All the fancy stuff - workers/insurance/office/car/lover:grin: - you mentioned is payed by the customer. No problem with that; it is the way is, it is the way it has been and probably will be for decades to come, but it doesn't take away the fact that the Hofo is good and exoensive partly because of the "resellers fee."
Are you a reseller by the way?:beer:
 
1- I am not a reseller

2- Indian film/video products you speak off are cheap knock-offs stolen from hard working companies and they have no real existing labor laws.

3- You still havent answered my question:

-If you need a RFF
-And you have the clientele
-But dont have the capital

Why not rent it? If you owned it would you rent it for free? No.

You would build it in the price. If your client asks for it, just bill them (with your margin of course).
 
All rental companies (big to small)... realize the value of renting... and Emre is completely correct.

You could pay for your HoFo in several weeks time if renting out daily!
 
2- Indian film/video products you speak off are cheap knock-offs stolen from hard working companies and they have no real existing labor laws.).[/quote]

It is a matter op opinion. In my perception stealing is taking something from another that he/she bought. If I bought a video imo Iam totally rightful to copy it the way I want. On the other hand one cannot own an idea. An Idea is not something someone owns.
Where did it come from?
Where did his education to have this idea come from?
Who paid for his education? Imo all the taxpayers.
So the basis of ownership is what the law makes of it.
The question is: who owns the law. Not the president, not the judges, not the police; we the people owns the law. The police, the judges and the president, are in office to protect us first and themself second and not otherwise.
Those who are loaded with dough, do have more ways to influence the law.
We are all equal, but some are more equal then others(animal farm)



3- You still havent answered my question:

-If you need a RFF
-And you have the clientele
-But dont have the capital

Why not rent it? If you owned it would you rent it for free? No.

You would build it in the price. If your client asks for it, just bill them (with your margin of course).[/quote]

Sure I want one and I can make good use of one, but the best I will do is 1000us$
Renting is out of the question; I live in Suriname and there is no company doing that. It's a nice thing to have. And if I had one and you were my neighbour, you could use it as well for free.
Making one is something I would have done in my 20ties; I certainly would have develop one.
:beer:



I
 
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I think the main point is this, Hofo is a great piece of equipment that could fill a real gap in the market. Anyone seriously thinking about rental or work in the professional film industry is not going to invest in a Hofo but a unit with name recognition. As it is allot easier to rent a brand people know and have confidence in. Something that takes years to build and is not the case for the Hofo at this point. (not suggesting Hofo is an inferior product)

So pricing the unite at a price point to expensive for the hobbyist, low budget indies, film student...etc, puts it practically in a no mans land category. I think the market for low budget film makers is significantly bigger than the intermediate not quite pro, but still working crowd. Who ever cracks the less than a 1000$ mark is going to sell hundreds of units guarantied.

Hofo at 2000 something is just another product that will never really catch on like Cavision and others simply because it is to expensive yet not professional enough (no cine lens support)

That being said, Hofo looks like a neat product and what he has achieved is remarkable.

P.S. - i think allot of us would not care if it was made out of plastic and cost 500$, even if it only lasts 3 years.
 
I have said this over and over, the final price is not $2000!

Depending on exchange rate, the final HoFo will be closer to $1400.
 
TNC said:
Well that is kind of what the expectation was in advance. Please read thread title.
Click to expand...

I have, many times. I meant the part about it lasting 3 years. That would make it basically "crap" in my mind, and I try not to ever buy any of that...

The $750 IKAN mini-HD monitor comes to mind, as do the many cheap Indian things on eBay. No thanks on that kind of stuff...
 
Hofo, sounds like a much more realistic price.

Ted, understand what you mean. But you see my point, allot of **** we buy for film making wont last for more than 3 years, cameras and all and hopefully one day we wont have to buy low budget equipment because we will be getting paid.
 
Kenny_G said:
It is a matter op opinion. In my perception stealing is taking something from another that he/she bought. If I bought a video imo Iam totally rightful to copy it the way I want. On the other hand one cannot own an idea. An Idea is not something someone owns.
Where did it come from?
Where did his education to have this idea come from?
Who paid for his education? Imo all the taxpayers.
So the basis of ownership is what the law makes of it.
The question is: who owns the law. Not the president, not the judges, not the police; we the people owns the law. The police, the judges and the president, are in office to protect us first and themself second and not otherwise.
Those who are loaded with dough, do have more ways to influence the law.
We are all equal, but some are more equal then others(animal farm)
Click to expand...

This is getting off topic so my last comment on this is that there are copyright and intellectual property laws that cover this.

I will say no more.
 
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Kenny_G said:
It is a matter op opinion. In my perception stealing is taking something from another that he/she bought. If I bought a video imo Iam totally rightful to copy it the way I want. On the other hand one cannot own an idea. An Idea is not something someone owns.
Where did it come from?
Where did his education to have this idea come from?
Who paid for his education? Imo all the taxpayers.
So the basis of ownership is what the law makes of it.
The question is: who owns the law. Not the president, not the judges, not the police; we the people owns the law. The police, the judges and the president, are in office to protect us first and themself second and not otherwise.
Those who are loaded with dough, do have more ways to influence the law.
We are all equal, but some are more equal then others(animal farm)
Click to expand...

This is the typical argument of the plunderer and the exploiter. By your argument there's nothing stopping me from going into your house and taking all of your possession as long as I'm stronger than you. Nobody owns anything and nobody came up with their own ideas so there's nothing wrong with that no? It's ironic that you used Animal Farm as an example because the lesson to be drawn from that book is the exact antithesis of what you're proposing.

You cannot own an idea but you can own how that idea is applied. I can't charge somebody for how a wheel works but if I designed my own wheel then you bet I can control the sales to that.
 
TNC said:
So pricing the unite at a price point to expensive for the hobbyist, low budget indies, film student...etc, puts it practically in a no mans land category. I think the market for low budget film.
Click to expand...

TNC, I think you make a very important distinction. I dont think the price disagreement is not coming from pro's but more from the hobbyist (this is just an observation, I may be wrong).

If you hope to make money in our business you have to spend money. I think the HoFo would be fairly well priced for it's abilities at $1400 (I would have preferred $1000 but I am not aware of all the manufacturing costs/profit margin.)

My point is hobbyists cannot expect a manufacturer to bend his prices for their needs in an industry revolving around professionals. My hobby is music, I just bought 2 guitars for $11000. I wanted the particular brand and models that pro's use. I asked the manufacturer to "give me a price break" because I was not a pro. He showed me the door. I paid full price.

Also if I ever buy a Hofo I will expect it too work many many years. Not just 3. Peter has stated many times that he would stand behind his products.

I respect and understand your point of view of making a very very "affordable" RFF, but for anybody who thinks Peter missed the price point and marketability for a RFF: Then the market is wide open......start building one!

Just my 2c.
 
There is no disagreement with the price, just pointing out a simple fact. There are plenty of "pro" units out there already, what is missing is a cheep RFF in the 1K range. There isn't really any in between market, either you are working AKA professional and can afford to buy the gear professionals use or you are not and you are stuck with not having a RFF. In any case, no one is saying that the Hofo isnt worth it, just that at 2000something it falls in a deadzone price wise. 1400$ while very reasonable for what looks like a high quality product is still out of most indies budget exept if you are only aiming at steady camers for whom it is a essential piece of gear. Because me for example I have always wanted a RFF for the added comfort when doing hand held but the price difference compared to a MFF system is simply to wide to justify the expense as it is not going to drastically improve what i shoot, so i will live with a cheeper option. With a Redrock FF at around 700 the jump up to 1000 is a no brainer. But at double, triple or even four times the price most will simply pass. Again that is not to say that the unite is not significantly more elaborate than a Redrock and worth every penny even at 2k. But from a practical perspective if you want to sell many unites, you could see that Hofo is forgoing a huge market (everyone that might buy a Redrock) when pricing is out of it's range. I mean that was the initial idea behind Hofo from day one. Right?
 
I think the only conclusion we can draw from this disscussion is that:

- yes there is a need and want for a cheaper unit

- and when redrock's remote follow focus comes out there will probably be no currency, people will teleport to work, movies will be downladed directly to chips in our brain and travel to other galaxies will be a favorite past time.:grin:

Ok, that was uncalled for...:2vrolijk_08:
 
I see it like this. When the OP asked if there is a demand for a sub 500 RFF, the overwelming answer was yes. Then when the price sky rocketed, the same people who said yes, now said no because it is in a different price bracket. The OP saw money and decided to raise the price. He has every right to do that, but when your market was looking for a sub 500 RFF, he didn't deliver. He could have possible had 80% of those who said yes, but now it might only 10% because of the cost and the fact if some one has the money to spend on a remote, they will spend on one that is proven.

I've seen a XH A1 for the $2200 on this forum, around the price the thing is getting sold for.

Edit*

I see that cost is going to be closer to 1400, I can get a high quality DOF for that amount. DOF > RFF.

Now to the person that actually makes a sub $500 RFF, as you can see from this thread the market is here. The new person can make the money.
 
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Huy Vu said:
This is the typical argument of the plunderer and the exploiter. By your argument there's nothing stopping me from going into your house and taking all of your possession as long as I'm stronger than you. Nobody owns anything and nobody came up with their own ideas so there's nothing wrong with that no? It's ironic that you used Animal Farm as an example because the lesson to be drawn from that book is the exact antithesis of what you're proposing.

You cannot own an idea but you can own how that idea is applied. I can't charge somebody for how a wheel works but if I designed my own wheel then you bet I can control the sales to that.
Click to expand...

If you never copy a disk or used an extra copy of a software, than you are the real man...................
By the way, just read what I wrote and don't read what you think.:beer:
 
Heezzi said:
I see it like this. When the OP asked if there is a demand for a sub 500 RFF, the overwelming answer was yes. Then when the price sky rocketed, the same people who said yes, now said no because it is in a different price bracket. The OP saw money and decided to raise the price. He has every right to do that, but when your market was looking for a sub 500 RFF, he didn't deliver. He could have possible had 80% of those who said yes, but now it might only 10% because of the cost and the fact if some one has the money to spend on a remote, they will spend on one that is proven.

I've seen a XH A1 for the $2200 on this forum, around the price the thing is getting sold for.

Edit*

I see that cost is going to be closer to 1400, I can get a high quality DOF for that amount. DOF > RFF.

Now to the person that actually makes a sub $500 RFF, as you can see from this thread the market is here. The new person can make the money.
Click to expand...

Have you actually been following the discussion? Any price upgrades came not from greed but from the reality of the build and full expenses that were incurred. Read the thread and know what you're talking about.

And if you're using an adapter you need a follow focus. period. cant get one without the other.
 
Rodney V. Smith said:
Have you actually been following the discussion? Any price upgrades came not from greed but from the reality of the build and full expenses that were incurred. Read the thread and know what you're talking about.

And if you're using an adapter you need a follow focus. period. cant get one without the other.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't think Peter is greedy. The distributors on the other hand....
I think that too much cost and development has gone into the shell of the hofo. It sounds like it would do fine if the military ever needed a wff. I still don't know about the motor. What happens if you put a stiff slr on there? Will it burn out? Isn't that where you should focus on putting extra costs and development since that is where most of the wear will likely happen?
I also don't see what's so wrong about plastic being used for the shell. It's cheap and light. The most expensive thing in our bags is usually the video camera and I've never once heard anyone complain that it is made from cheap plastic.

And you don't "need" a follow focus if you have a dof adapter. You sound like someone behind the counter sayin in order to use this you now need to buy this and this. Pleny of people have done well without one. Case in point, the Stillmotion guys, just a year or two back, they didn't even have a mattebox. Yet with just a Brevis and their skills, they changed the wedding video industry and now everyone is knocking off their stuff. Sure they probably use ff and mattebox now but they didn't need it back then.
 
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Sure you can pull focus without a follow focus but that's usually NOT by choice. If most of us had the choice and budget, we'd align ourselves with a good focus puller who we know for sure has our backs. A good AC will go an awesome job pulling focus on just the wheel, or with the whip... but give him a Hofo and he'll go to town on you... that much flexibility is a dream without having to be tethered to the camera.

I'm not salesman. I'm in trenches. I've used without follow focus. I've built my own FF out of a fishing reel, and then another out of a better fishing reel, and,then went on to buy my own (Indifocus). I've used the Bartech with a brilliant AC, and the Redrock with a less than stellar AC, then had to go to pull focus on my own.

When it comes to choice, I never ever consider putting my hand on lens unless something is horribly broken and we don't have time to fix it.
 
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