Red Scarlet Delayed Again... Price increase up $1000

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From my personal opinion, no one wants the trade-off of having global shutter in what it reduces in active area in the pixel region, so it will depend on how much more sensitive and noise rejecting CMOS active pixels become to when they want to take that hit.

I don't know if people like RED will ever implement it. Jim told me specifically that they don't want a global shutter they are instead speeding up the sensor read to be somewhat related to what you'd see in film. All I can say is they provided their measurements to me and said that they felt global shutter gave the image a more sterile look (if I recall his words right, I am paraphrasing a little). And that, from Graeme, they didn't want the trade-offs.
 
You know what's really obsolete? The 2/3" format.
And to all you "but Citizen Cane was all DEEP FOCUS! Don't you know ANYTHING about cinematography!?" people... get real. Quit acting like Citizen Cane is the Be-All-End-All example for cinematography. Citizen Cane can suck my balls... I'd rather watch "Baseketball" for the 17th time then Citizen Cane again. I'll take my "amateur" shallow DOF please. I want that 24mm 1.4 FF look.
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speaking of emotion....

You know... if that's what you want, you can have it... but, your needs/desires aren't everyone elses... different strokes, and different tools... Just b/c sensor size is the single most important thing to you, doesn't mean it is to everyone else... Slamming an entire format just b/c you don't think it is for you, is just silly though...

I'll put X star cinematographer with a 2/3" sensor up against joe blow with 35mm DoF any day of the week....
 
OK...so, this delay ISN'T DELAYING ME...the only thing in my way is: ME. My lack of experience, lack of knowledge, lack of time, maybe even lack of talent. And it IS VERY exciting to see where EPIC is heading (based on footy and such)...and to think that Scarlet is the "little dog" as they have referred to it. Cool. I know...we want it now...blah blah blah....but, earlier today I watched a short film from a forum member here, and it pretty much made me forget about ANY CAMERA. If I remember right (from prior posts) he's shooting on T2i/7d. I'm just proud that something so well done came from our community.

So the point is: Take the camera you've got and go tell a story. This guy did and congrats to him!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=223483
 
jeree said:
i honestly wished the RED Scarlet didn't have a fixed lens [i mean it IS f/2.0], they shouldve made it with interchangeable lenses, but that just me :P
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I know but, honestly, at 2/3rds already, which is big enough a sensor for me if RAW is an option, I mean my dream cam has been an a-cam DII for years... If I personally give RED my money, I don't wanna spend anymore.

There's a lot of respect for RED, but the whole selling the body price, and then realizing that you have to spend more is really corporate of a technique.

I feel better just watching what they do these days.

I draw. Since infancy, and I'm pretty damn good at it. I ain't good at women, at cars, at a lot of things in life, but drawing I'm good at.

Give me anything that can make a mark on anything else and I'll give you a render. Period.

I'm trying to follow the same in filming, give me anything that can pick up frames of light in succession and I'll give you a moving picture. All tech aside, that's just it. The rest is content.

Look at music. Before, you had to go through hell to mix a vinyl and not puncture it thanks to a sloppy mix, now any crack smoking dog can make a beat.

It will ultimately come down to content.

RED is an innovator in my book, they set standards, but I've learned not to depend.

And yes, I like the post about citizen kane. Screw it. Sometimes, yeah, I like a certain look cause I do... That's it.

Film's traditions have been set by technological limtis. Technology changes, the aesthetic options increase, new rules happen. So yeah. You like FF? Do it. You want it all shallow? Do it.

Judge the reaction accordingly, it is all you.

I won't give em my money. I get what I want for less. That isn't spoiled, it is the opposite.

If it ain't fun, I ain't interested. RED? Is fun to follow up with. But that's as far as I go.

So yeah if Scarlet comes out, I'd like a fixed fast lens. I want these guys to give us out of the box, cause after all the innovation, the age old trick of selling parts, and advertising the price of only the mainframe (that doesn't give you an image) is not appealing to me personally.

If I want a shallow DOF shot, I can get a DSLR for the price of two lenses.

And yes, I'll mix em. I don't care.

Anyone who ever did anything breakthrough-worthy in any field went through all the motions, understood it all, got a hold of the set of rules they didn't plain like, and smashed them to the ground.

If you smash a rule to the ground, informatively, and educatedly, with enough CONFIDENCE AND BALLS, the world will follow you as they sit their warm asses in you left pocket.

T
 
The funny thing is that if people really knew their cinematography they would know that you can actually achieve shallow DOF with a 2/3 camera. Thats if you really knew what you were doing. The other funny thing is that when you look at the work of a lot of the people that demand this and that from a camera you end up saying, gee what this dude really needs is more skills!
 
John Caballero said:
The funny thing is that if people really knew their cinematography they would know that you can actually achieve shallow DOF with a 2/3 camera. Thats if you really knew what you were doing. The other funny thing is that when you look at the work of a lot of the people that demand this and that from a camera you end up saying, gee what this dude really needs is more skills!
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Innit right?!! 16mm. Scarlet fixed... 2/3rd" fast ass fixed lens from like say 6-70. RAW? HDR? Bob's your uncle.

I just. dont. have. that. much. money.

Life's goin on on the side. I wanna go back to manhattan. Am I gonna spend my money on a camera? no. I'm gonna stick it in the bank and hope the embassy thinks it's enough.

But COMPLETELY with you. Just a fast ass lens. 2/3rd's, good enough. Way more than good enough. 16mm is proof. Content is king.
 
Sony's PDW-F800 Cinealta tested out in a magazine report at 800 ISO native with around 13 stops of DR. So good sensitivity and good DR are more than possible with 2/3" format cameras. Red One MX shooting in 2k cropped format, about 2/3" frame size, only lost about 1 stop of useable DR compared to full frame S35 4k and maintained equal sensitivity. I fully expected Scarlet to at least equal this performance before HDRx.

Scarlet 2/3" is coming in two models, fixed and interchangeable. We got our wish in this regard a long time ago, but if you want a fully programmable robotic servo zoom lens with exceptional optical performance, the fixed version is a no brainer. The same capability in an aftermarket zoom lens alone will cost more like $20k. The interchangeable lens cinema model shares the same interchangeable lens mounts with Epic, with full electronic support for Nikon and Canon lenses.

Most of us have interim cameras of one kind or another to shoot with, so who cares if the wait extends a few more months for a truly unique and exceptional increase in performance.

HDRx is going to further nail the distinction between Scarlet as a true digital cinema film replacement camera vs any HD video camera of any price or format. It is still cheaper than any 2/3" HD camera, or more to the point any S16mm film camera. That is its market.

Red's mission from the start has been to produce digital motion cameras that are comparable to or better than film as an acquisition medium in every respect. If the Epic samples are any indication, they have crossed that goal line with HDRx. It would be very short sighted indeed not to include this feature on every camera they make.
Forget HD video, Scarlet is a different kind of camera altogether. If this camera were released by any of the big three camera companies it would be priced closer to $100k than $10k.
 
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Hey Jason Ramsey...please don't "nuke" me for asking this, .....but this question and where it is posted brings up a question that I've had for a while, (related to Red Camera products).

At some stage can we have a Red Camera area of the site? I see threads moved to various places to address this problem, and I KNOW that I can just join "Red User" which I have....but I like our people here better. The group of people over there get REAL SNIPPY about EVERYTHING. I just like our "peeps" here better. (Maybe it's just the level that I'm on/where I'm at in my life) Anywho....would that happen at anytime to simplify WHERE to look for this stuff at here at DVXUser? (I'm still hiding behind my desk at this stage...let me know when I can come out?) :)
 
Reduser and DVXUser are owned by the same people.
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I am aware of this fact. I see some of our peeps over there too. Maybe it's just me, but the "vibe" is different there. They are different products (forums) for sure (IMHO).
 
Is this really a delay? Has anyone expected Scarlet to come out anytime soon except those on Reduser that think Jim is God or something? Red has itself to blame for this marketing fiasco. The good news is that because of Red and these HDSLR's, the market is shifting to larger sensor cameras.

I don't know about you guys but I'm more excited about the next version of these DSLR's. I have no doubts that they will have more capabilities in terms of video. Lets hope the alaising and moire are resolved and can we have raw in video! (last one maybe wishful thinking)
 
They have spent soooo much money on R & D. What camera is doing 3K for 3K? Not 1 I can think of. They really should have killed the fixed lens and sold a body for 3K. Be done with it. I don't think that they understand the whole version system. Photoshop 1 is a lot different than CS5. Make a product and release a new one every 2 years. So what it is "obsolete" That is why you can resell your products. I have a 7D and I will sell it on craigslist and buy the next version.
 
HHL said:
Hey Jason Ramsey...please don't "nuke" me for asking this, .....but this question and where it is posted brings up a question that I've had for a while, (related to Red Camera products).

At some stage can we have a Red Camera area of the site? I see threads moved to various places to address this problem, and I KNOW that I can just join "Red User" which I have....but I like our people here better. The group of people over there get REAL SNIPPY about EVERYTHING. I just like our "peeps" here better. (Maybe it's just the level that I'm on/where I'm at in my life) Anywho....would that happen at anytime to simplify WHERE to look for this stuff at here at DVXUser? (I'm still hiding behind my desk at this stage...let me know when I can come out?) :)
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REDuser actually started out as a sub-forum here on DVXuser...

Probably the best place to post RED related stuff would be in "NEW GUYS" for now... though the forum is about to undergo some pretty extensive restructuring, so there might be a better home for it in the near future (albeit still a relatively generic one).

As to an actual red section here on dvxuser, don't hold your breath :) For us, REDuser and DVXuser serve different audiences, and different needs. Where DVXuser is a general discussion forum where discussion on any type of camera is welcome (though we'll emphasize the cameras that our users use most with dedicated sections), REDuser is red-centric and meant primarily for users of RED products.

Some people prefer the vibe of one site over another... Even little ole' scarletuser has members who aren't members of any of our other communities (reduser, dvxuser) b/c they prefer to hang there...

So, you are welcome to discuss RED or any other products here on dvxuser if this is where you prefer to hang :) When I re-structure the forum sections, I'll see about creating a better place for cameras that we dont cover as extensively to make it a bit easier for you and others. But, there won't be a "RED" section on DVXuser, as Landmine owns and operates both sites, and it seems redundant from our perspective. Happily, our communities service different audiences and have different atmospheres as a result, so while reduser may not groove with you, dvxuser does, and that is cool.

P.s. (believe it or not) I will never ban you for having a differing opinion... only for being an asshole when you express it :) so, no worries...
 
philiplipetz said:
No, not for people who can afford to purchase a new cam only once every five years, for them it makes sense to wait.
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I only make the waiting comment in reference to the many times I've heard "If I only had this, then I could.." or, "I just need that, and then...."

Not in reference to those who don't feel they *need* a camera right now, or who aren't trying to plan a production around an unreleased camera, etc... I'm kinda in that same boat. I don't need a camera right now. I sold mine a few months back. Bought a nice computer instead, which makes me money. I haven't really had time to shoot, and moving to a new state, during a down economy, it just wasn't too practical for a father of two to go hitting the pavement looking for gigs at the time. But, now I'm getting to the point where I can start actually shopping a bit, and am starting to save my money... planning for a purchase in the next 6-12 months or so. We'll see what's actually on the market when I'm ready to purchase...
 
HHL said:
I'm not a Red owner. I'm not sure if I ever will be. But I have deep respect for what they are doing to change the landscape in Cinematography. I HATE how long they've taken, but....for what they are innovating, I give them MAD RESPECT. HDRx for 1000 is FREAKING NUTS. I NEVER thought they'd add it to Scarlett...and CERTAINLY NOT FOR 1000usd??!! I'm not counting on seeing Scarlet during 2011 PERIOD. I'll get a little upset if they don't launch by 2013. But I will say this....until one of the Big Boys (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic, JVC, etc, etc) DO RAW VIDEO....until then....everyone can continue to "bow down" to Red Camera Company.....until someone else does it....

Congrats to us all to live in a time where merely the "fear" of future product launches inspires competing companies to "try harder". I'm sure Panasonic, Sony etc...aren't shaking in the boots, but....if a Scarlet DOES launch at under 8Kusd. It will defineatly leave a mark. I'm with Kholi on this matter....I don't think ANYTHING is a "killer" of a proven market/segment, but....RAW, HDRx, 4:4:4 color space, on 3K res....WOWSER....that's mindblowing........................even in 2013. :)
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I'm in total agreement with you. I believe that Red pushed the Big Boys to create the products that are just being released. The fixed Scarlet will blow away the competition when released. And even though it's taken over two years). The fixed Scarlet is not triple the $3k promise but double because Jannard said repeatedly that the fixed scarlet will include everything except the media for the price. So now it's under $6k well it blows away the Sony EX3 which sell for over $8k. And for $750 more than the AF100 you get 3K Raw with HDR. So obviously Jannard was way off that this would be the DSLR killer because of the $6k price but I have faith the some time in the future he probably will fulfill that promise. And I thank him for kicking the industry in the you know where because I really believe that is the reason that we are seeing excellent products like the AF100 being released at this time.
 
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