Red Ruination Blue - a production blog

HVX2006 said:
Hey and one more thing, it always makes me wonder why some indies are so hell bent on putting those arbitrary business restrictions on them self. It seems kind of self defeating, no one is going to give them a shot at a studio picture because they can emulate there business model. And it seems like the string of self produced "genera" movies featured on dvxuser haven't had such a straight path to the bank as was predicted. So why do it?
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taormina said:
I've come to realize that not everyone shares my political, economic, or religious views (DUH!) and I really don't care. There's enough people like me to make the movie successful in it's niche.
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The best way I've heard this question answered. Honestly there is no straight path to the bank. If you're smart you can get noticed, if you're blessed to make money from doing this then you're really step ahead of the game.

Fact is many people simply like genre. I love martial arts and action films, especially when there's another element like horror (Blade) or Sci-Fi (Cyborg, Universal Soldier). The idea is if you like it so will everyone else like you. I promised myself I simple wouldn't make movies for people, I make them for myself. If I would buy it then so will others.

There is indeed formulas that work better with some than other but formula is indeed there. Various formulas work like Martial artist + rapper. Jet Li and DMX = $$ Steven Segual + DMX = $$. Steven Seagul + Ja Rule = Back to B list action films for you Steve. See formula works well that's why it's done but then again sometimes it's just not enough. LOL.

One tries to emulate Hollywood because frankly, they do entertaining films that it seems a lot of people like. But if you don't have the money to emulate Hollywood you do the best you can to take the things you like from the films you like. I have never tried to emulate Hollywood but I do try to emulate what I see good from various directors, many of my favorite being indie or HK directors. But the work and story is all my own.

Much of my work is not to say "hey let me try to do Hollywood" but let me take the things I know people (including myself) like and do but with my own take on the subject. My "Divinity" film is a martial arts film but people who read the first 30 pages know it's not JUST a martial arts film. So genre filmmaking is indeed a great path and everything has not been done before and if it has then that doesn't mean it's been done your way. And people who are down on genre simply haven't thought about the possibilities it offers because they've created an idea that they can't do anything else. The doesn't make the genre bad, it makes the writer bad.

-Nate
 
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hoofandmouf said:
if a filmmaker makes a low brow, exploitative slasher/torture porn flick (Hostel, etc) with a B list actor and a couple sets of tits thrown in, he further corrodes the ethical and moral fiber of the world and he makes a few bucks.... a win win right?
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Well quite clearly your high brow entertainment most certainly could come to the rescue of us all couldn't it?

I mean who wouldn't want to hear and see the romantic heart warming tale of right and wrong about an intersexed little person who decides to go all the way and completely change his ways and go from being a strict vegetarian to an absolute vegan. :beer:

Did I mention that he is also a person of color and that he finally throws whitey aka "THE MAN" off his back? :thumbsup:
 
I just spent the last 15 minutes laughing my ass off at the survival blog website,
I'd better go install nine thousand and one deadbolts to every door in my house and pick up a semi-automatic assault rifle to defend my freedom when a ups employee rings my doorbell.

So, When can I buy Corrado xD And good luck with this project too.
 
taormina said:
Did you read the same synopsis I wrote?
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yea. and being from the DEEP DEEP south.... trust me... I know your niche (probably) better than you do.

thing is...

you are attempting to make a film that makes a half assed political statement, shrewdly wrapped in the veneer of a straight to dvd, b list, foreign sales approach... I think this works to the detriment of said film....

now if you were to make an edgy, thought provoking, RAW film that gave a gutsy n honest to jeezum statement on said values... then it might have a chance...

my advice would be this...

do the EXACT opposite of what you did with Corrado.

:beer::thumbup:
 
ESTEBEVERDE said:
Well quite clearly your high brow entertainment most certainly could come to the rescue of us all couldn't it?

I mean who wouldn't want to hear and see the romantic heart warming tale of right and wrong about an intersexed little person who decides to go all the way and completely change his ways and go from being a strict vegetarian to an absolute vegan. :beer:

Did I mention that he is also a person of color and that he finally throws whitey aka "THE MAN" off his back? :thumbsup:
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intersexed?

plz elaborate?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrzp_hZNxM

jus ta warm em up babe.
 
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Adam I like your idea for the story. I think that the fact that most of us don't have the budget to produce a Holywood size feature is why the story is so important. A great story with all of the technical parts done properly can become a sleeper and a big winner at the box office. I think the daughter is an important issue of the story line and all audiences like a good child actor that makes the story pop with emotion.

All of the political innuendo's and true facts of the world can't hurt a good story that is delivered properly with emotion and in this case a lot of action. We all evolve during our lives and many of us change our views over time. The old saying is, (show me a young person thats not liberal and I'll show you a person with no heart. Show me a old person thats not a conservative and I'll show you a fool ). This old saying holds true around the world and people like to remember how it was to be young. They also know that with age comes an understanding that is gained by the challenging events of our lives. Its what we do when we gain knowledge and we come to understand the truths thats all around us. Are we and do we remain an ostrich with our heads in the sand or do we step up to the plate and swing at the ball even though we have three balls and two strikes.

There is many ways that this story can unfold an I patiently wait for the goods to be delivered.

Buy the way Adam I was one of the six or so interested in you doing a video of Corrado so I hope I'm on top of the list for its release. LOL
 
No one has read his script. A single frame has yet to be shot. All he has done is tease out a plot line and look at the reaction.
Like many other threads on here with an idea that generates response, imagine if this guy had a little money behind for promotion. I think Adam's business point is made. Audiences will be there even if its to throw tomatoes.
As far as art...well, if someone is brave enough to define it, categorize it and say what should or should not be considered... all that can be said is... good luck with that one.
 
There is only one Oscar winning angel to the second amendment - and that is that the second amendment while valid in it self, is consistently used by certain groups to rubber stamp, intolerance, violence, racism... its much akin to how patriotism is often used. I think the larger point i was hinting at is that when dealing with serious themes especially in times when they involve current events it is important that they be approached with thoughtfulness and a certen humility. To me there is nothing wrong with Mel making the Passion, but the way it was marketed exposed a sort of lack or respect for the subject. Where for example Shindler list, The Pianist, Apocalypse... all did pretty well and despite that begin widely distributed films.

taormina said:
First of all, in this market, you have to target your movies to appeal to a really tight demographic. The film must reach it's target audience with a laserlike focus.

In order to build a strong grassroots campaign, you have to know the demo before writing the story.

Look at the recent spate of Christian films as an example. They're making a killing, because every church group in the united states watches them (Fireproof!). Highly targeted.
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Also your rather cynical remark caught my attention as on top of being frightening that the new bread of film makers have become so disinterested in film for films sake, it also shows a heavy handiness completely unfitting for the subject. Can you imagine your self, the marketing team sitting around the table conceiving the log line for Shindlers lists. So how many jews...???


So i ask a with nothing to lose staring out director, why bother with all this marketing crap, Hollywood rules that don't apply, stars that don't sell.... Its a drag on your creativity and is guarantied to only produce sub par cookie cutter exploitation. So why do it? Its like trying to make a Armani suit form t-shirt material - IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK!
 
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hoofandmouf said:
you are attempting to make a film that makes a half assed political statement, shrewdly wrapped in the veneer of a straight to dvd, b list, foreign sales approach... I think this works to the detriment of said film....
:beer::thumbup:
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FAIL.

Don't presume to tell me what kind of film I'm making. I can handle criticism just fine, but this isn't criticism at all. If you want to criticize the idea, you're free to do so. If you want to fast forward to the future and tell me what kind of movie I'm making, I'm going to get pissed and tell you to shove it in your ass.

Secondly, you failed to read my goals for the project - it's not straight to DVD - it will have a theatrical release. It doesn't have a huge foreign sales component because it's primarily a domestic movie, and it will have A list actors in it. I've said this many times in this thread; still I get the idea you don't read much of the threads, rather fast forwarding down to "Post Reply" and chiming in without reading anything.
 
HVX2006 = :violent5:

seriously dude. adam specifically made a point of saying he didn't want to start any political debates or flame wars. adam started this thread to share his approach to his film #2. your flaming adds less than nothing to his comments. that's not what these boards are about. if you feel the need to be a hater then keep it to yourself.
 
HVX2006 said:
So i ask a with nothing to lose staring out director, why bother with all this marketing crap, Hollywood rules that don't apply, stars that don't sell.... Its a drag on your creativity and is guarantied to only produce sub par cookie cutter exploitation. So why do it? Its like trying to make a Armani suit form t-shirt material - IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK!
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Damn....I feel a little surly this morning. Okay, I'll bite. First of all, thanks for enlightening us with your "film for film's sake" approach. I'm sure you've made enough features that you are well aware that they require vast amounts of money to make, and that, failing you being personally wealthy, you must seek investors. And I'm also sure with your extensive track record that you have a history of not only repaying investors, but also ensuring they make a profit.

So I think It would be beneficial for me to take you to my investors, sit them down, and have you come in and give your little "film for film's sake" diatribe. They'll be writing checks on that in a second, I'm sure....:huh:

Seriously, all kidding aside, this is a business, man. You can strive to make art and you should try and move people with your work, but you can't ignore the business side of it.

And as far as the "it won't work" line, all in caps - what experience is that based upon?
 
Actually thanks Slimcrisp....much appreciated.

Let's say it again:

YOU CAN CRITICIZE THE IDEA BUT DON'T TALK ABOUT THE POLITICS OF IT HERE. I will not violate the rules of this board and debate politics. If you hate the idea, say so, talk about any other topic but the politics. I promise I won't respond to political trolling.
 
taormina said:
Damn....I feel a little surly this morning. Okay, I'll bite. First of all, thanks for enlightening us with your "film for film's sake" approach. I'm sure you've made enough features that you are well aware that they require vast amounts of money to make, and that, failing you being personally wealthy, you must seek investors. And I'm also sure with your extensive track record that you have a history of not only repaying investors, but also ensuring they make a profit.

So I think It would be beneficial for me to take you to my investors, sit them down, and have you come in and give your little "film for film's sake" diatribe. They'll be writing checks on that in a second, I'm sure....:huh:

Seriously, all kidding aside, this is a business, man. You can strive to make art and you should try and move people with your work, but you can't ignore the business side of it.

And as far as the "it won't work" line, all in caps - what experience is that based upon?
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But what makes you think any investor is going to want to repeat the same formula you used for Corado? - As to date it has made no money. So what i mean to say shrouded in my high brow idealism, is since Corado by your own account a straight to DVD cash cow, did not preform in it's main (only goal) - to make a quick buck. Why do you want to repeat this formula again, and what makes you so optimistic in as you say difficult financial environment that that anyone is going to want to shell out 10 times the $ it took to make Corado?
 
HVX2006 said:
But what makes you think any investor is going to want to repeat the same formula you used for Corado? - As to date it has made no money. So what i mean to say shrouded in my high brow idealism, is since Corado by your own account a straight to DVD cash cow, did not preform in it's main (only goal) - to make a quick buck. Why do you want to repeat this formula again, and what makes you so optimistic in as you say difficult financial environment that that anyone is going to want to shell out 10 times the $ it took to make Corado?
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This is why reading comprehension is so important.

#1 - Please explain how it's the same formula as Corrado: Let's do a Sesame Street comparison: One of these kids is doing his own thing.....

Corrado:

  • Intended for foreign audiences
  • B list actors
  • $500,000 budget
  • Intended for direct to DVD sales
  • Not a festival movie
  • A pure Action Film - what foreign audiences want
Red Ruination Blue:

  • Intended for domestic audiences
  • A list actors
  • $2-5M budget
  • Intended for theatrical release
  • A festival movie
  • A Drama / Thriller with enough action to carry it foreign
Now, I'm not the smartest guy, but it looks to me like they are two very different strategies.

And as to your comment about Corrado not making money....I just signed with a great sales agent about two weeks ago - what exactly were you expecting? Who ever said "make a quick buck"? How much faster do you want me to go, here? The film went from pre-production to being signed by one of the best sales agents in the country in under a year.

Oh, and by the way, you still managed to throw out more ignorant statements while not answering the questions I posed to you.
 
Highbrow = Pretentious = Someone who talks down to other people because they believe they are better than everyone else and their **** don't stink.

I'd much rather watch a good shoot em up than some highbrow crap which in fact... do tend to stink.

Adam. Keep up the good work. Will be looking forward to this one as well as anticipating Corrado.
 
Cryogenic Filmworks said:
Highbrow = Pretentious = Someone who talks down to other people because they believe they are better than everyone else and their shi* don't stink.

I'd much rather watch a good shoot em up than some highbrow crap which in fact... do tend to stink.
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anyone else see the irony here? :)
 
I dont get the guys who talking about Corrado not making money yet , do you have any idea how long it takes ? Ive seen the trailer of Rocky Balboa with footage from it in December 2005 and film was out in december 2006 ,it really takes time even for bigger films so this is amazing to read how some guys are talking about money month after adam edited the film to final state.Its ubelievable how some guys could be ignorant in their comments , it takes time to distribute ,takes time to send the cds along with boxes to factory to pack everything together.
 
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