Red Rock Image upside down?

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PhoenixF2B

Member
Hey all,

I apologize if this has been asked before or is common knowledge, but my company just purchased the HVX200 a week ago and we are exploring the option of the Red Rock lens. We just heard that the reason the Red Rock is so cheap compared to other adapters is that the image is recorded upside and has to be uprighted in you NLE.

This this true?
 
It seems like most adaptors are upside down—the Redrock, the SG Pro, and the Brevis. I know Letus makes a flip version and that Brevis will be coming out with a flip module for their already existing adaptor, but I think it's not a price issue, but rather a light loss issue. Adding an element to flip the image could cause potentially more light loss. Most people use an external monitor (Ikan, Panasonic, Marshall, and others make them) with either an upside-down mount or a flip function to see things properly. Someone please correct me if any of this is misinformation. Thanks!
 
Also, it seems like many people's first lens is a Nikon 50mm f1.4 or 1.8. They're fast, relatively cheap, and they are a sort of "normal" perspective, i.e. not too fisheyed or too telephotoed. Other standard lenses are 28mm, 85mm, and 105mm. Generally they are fixed lenses for maximum speed and clarity, but zooms can work too. There is a Nikon 80-200 f2.8 that I've never used but is well recommended.
 
yeah, the flip/price situation is only a VERY small part of the bigger picture. outside of the big $10,000+ adapters they ALL have the upside down issue (aside from those who are coming out with flip components). and thats not really any big deal as most NLEs can flip it right side up in real time. and most of us who use 35mm adapters have either goosenecks or brackets (or hardware hacks) to flip our external monitors - and if you dont use an external monitor with a 35mm adapter - you'll be hard pressed to achieve proper focus to begin with.

the real issue to be concerned with, with the dozen or so 35mm adapters is simplicity and light loss. from what ive seen they ALL are capable of a decent to very good image.

from what ive gathered, as far as light performance goes, the brevis and sgpro lead the race. followed by the redrock, then everything else.

i chose the brevis for the following reasons:

1. availability - there was a several week wait with the redrock and a several MONTH wait on the sgpro

2. ease of use. the brevis is the ONLY adapter that doesnt REQUIRE a rails setup to use. not that you'd often use an adapter with run and gun shooting BUT you can use it with a simple tripod.

3. customer service. getting quick and consice answers to questions and solutions to problems is near immediate.

4. price.

as far as lens choices go. i had a 50mm for my first lens, just because it was cheap and available. but i didnt like the look of it. it was too short to be interesting and too long to be fun. i sold it and now have a 35, a 55 and a micro 105 (GREAT for fly on the wall to very close intimate shots with very fast performance!) these 3 lenses together were about $625
 
as far as light performance goes, the brevis and sgpro lead the race
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Maybe not anymore. The Letus35 Flip Extreme is claiming a grand total of 1/2 stop light loss. And it flips the image for you. Looks like the whole race may have just been busted wide open.
 
Wow some fantastic reponses here. I have to admit that the flipping the image in editing seems like quite the pain in the ass, but after seeing the quality of these images, it's a process that seems worth it.

Barry: The Letus35 is the adapter AND it flips the image for a total of 1/2 stop loss? Or is the 1/2 stop loss in addition to the adapter?
 
I just checked Letus's site, it's 1 1/2 stop loss IN ADDTION to the loss through the SLR lens.

Barry, would you put the Letus above the Red Rock or the other adapters?
 
Barry_Green said:
Maybe not anymore. The Letus35 Flip Extreme is claiming a grand total of 1/2 stop light loss. And it flips the image for you. Looks like the whole race may have just been busted wide open.
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i hope so, the extreme looks good.
 
If you think flipping the image in post is a pain in the ass, wait until you start flipping monitors and cameras on set. Who needs it?

That's why I bought a Letus. I've also signed up today for the Letus Extreme. It's going to freaking rock!!!!
 
PhoenixF2B said:
Hey all,

We just heard that the reason the Red Rock is so cheap compared to other adapters is that the image is recorded upside and has to be uprighted in you NLE.

This this true?
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RedRock M2 has many issues, not the least of which is the flip problem, which is similar for nearly every other adapter as well aside from the Letus35 FE/Extreme. The M2 loses far too much light, for example.
 
PhoenixF2B said:
I just checked Letus's site, it's 1 1/2 stop loss IN ADDTION to the loss through the SLR lens.
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That's for the $700 Letus35 Flip Enhanced. The $1200 L35 Extreme is claiming 0.5 stops of light loss in total, and it's right-side-up.

Barry, would you put the Letus above the Red Rock or the other adapters?
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I wouldn't use one of the other adapters because I'm not going to put up with the upside-down nonsense. I've seen a few of them, I've played around with 'em a little, and they can deliver a great image -- but it's upside-down, and to me that's a dealbreaker. I don't see any reason for putting up with upside-down-ness, and it's a tedious pain in the patootie to screw around with magnets or turning monitors upside down or flipping the image in post or whatever. When using professional equipment, I don't want to jump through hoops -- I want it to just work.

The L35FE just works. It delivers an image every bit as sharp as the other adapters, with great edge-to-edge sharpness, no vignetting, and no goofing around with upside-down-ness. At all. And it costs about *half* what the other adapters do. But it does make a few compromises to get there (mainly in the area of construction).

Now along comes the Letus35 Extreme, which promises even better performance, better construction, probably the lowest amount of light loss of any of the upside-down adapters, and on top of that it's right-side-up. Yes the $1200 price is higher than the L35FE, but it's about the same price as a $1295 Redrock M2 or $1120 Cinevate Brevis... and it's right-side-up. And may deliver as much or more light.

I am very, very interested in getting my hands on an Extreme. If someone wants to do a "shootout" with a Brevis or Redrock or SG Pro or whatever, I'd be glad to participate, but frankly that whole upside-down nonsense rules those out for me right from the get-go (especially when you can get an L35FE for *less* than them, and it's right-side-up.)

As far as I'm concerned, the bar has been raised. If (and yes, it's still an "if") but IF Letus can deliver a right-side-up image with only 1/2 stop of light loss *in total*, why on earth would anyone *ever* want to put up with all the upside-down issues? If the Letus delivers on its promises (and Steven Dempsey's tried it and seems to say that it does), I think the other adapter makers are going to have to modify their business models to compete, because the Letus is changing the playing field.

(of course, if the other adapters can actually deliver a better image, that would change things. That remains to be seen.)
 
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Hey Market md, that's pretty pessimistic. I ordered the FE two weeks ago and got it three day later. Now this comes out, Quyen offers to buy my old unit back at full price, and deliver a new one before October 30th. Why wouldn't I believe him?
 
The ONLY problem with image righting lowcost adpters ( excluding PS, and Movietube because they solved the problem) is lets say you want to use your existing Rails, FF, mattebox ETc. the prism tha imverts the image moves the camera ( or the Lens) to a ungodly high/low position because of he offset in position, making it difcult to use with standard accesories without some "custom" work. other than that im very excited to see a LEtus EX, brevis flip
 
TimurCivan said:
The ONLY problem with image righting lowcost adpters ( excluding PS, and Movietube because they solved the problem) is lets say you want to use your existing Rails, FF, mattebox ETc. the prism tha imverts the image moves the camera ( or the Lens) to a ungodly high/low position because of he offset in position, making it difcult to use with standard accesories without some "custom" work. other than that im very excited to see a LEtus EX, brevis flip
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camera2.jpg


Honestly, I have no problem with mounting a Marshall 7" monitor upside down on an Nogol arm. I just wrapped my film last weekend so the details are still very fresh in my mind. The rig is a bit bulky, but you need a monitor anyways to focus on a 35mm lens adapter. I would like to try an alternative to the Red Rock. It lost a great deal of light...somewhere between 2 to 3 stops. Despite that, the film turned out beautifully for the most part.

marianne3.jpg

waking.jpg
 
you would probably like the SGpro. same form factor as a Redrock, but loses less than a stop, and is IMHO the sharpest there is.
 
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