RED Renames Scarlet - Now "Epic Light"

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Danielvilliers said:
This is one of the most (stupid... I did not wan' t to use this word, not to sound rude but my limited English vocabulary does no have another softer one). Do you know how many of us here or even on reduser member, rely or do advertisement as a job. I don' t know if you are a working professional or not, but by your reasoning all the camera companies including red would be in liquidation if their was no advertising market. Do you think that red is use only to do feature film? It is the same as the people on reduser or event here proclaiming that there film will be future proof in 30 years because they use 4k red. If in ten years every cinema has some glass less 3d technology (I am not saying that 3d is great) and that it become a standard your 4k film won' t be future proof at all unless you have filmed with two cameras or you have invested in two reds.

How can egos be that big, only a little fraction of film pass the test of time and they are what I would call master piece, generally more because of their script and acting than the technology they were filmed with. Just remind yourself how many block busters in their days are now just filing late night satellite tv.
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Maybe, I am stupid... b/c I don't understand what anything you just said has to do with my post...

The only point of my comment was that different companies allocate funds in different ways relative to their needs, and that regular firmware updates (for example) do not necessarily equate to additional end-product cost, b/c there are many other considerations that will impact final retail cost of any given product. An additional cost here, may be offset by savings in another area (i.e. marketing budget) Larger companies have more overhead to maintain, and other things like massive marketing budgets, etc. RED (likely) does not have those kinds of expenses taking up as much of their budget "pie".

Nowhere did I say anything indicating that I thought companies should not have advertising budgets. That is your own inference.

And, I didn't say anything about 4k being future proof, or that only films are shot on RED, etc... Sounds like you just had something you needed to get off your chest, but it had absolutely nothing to do with anything I said in the previous post.
 
yoclay said:
So now the most important question: What will Scarletuser be called instead?

Epiclightuser?

:2vrolijk_08::2vrolijk_08:
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Well... they would also need to remove user since no one is using a scarlet. How about Scarletspeculation or Scarletwishfulthinking or ScarletJustBuyAnEpic.
 
S35 Scarlet got renamed. 2/3" Scarlet is still Scarlet.

No doubt the price will go up some, but don't make rash assumptions about how much. Part of this spate of announcements: the price of the side SSD module came down $1000 from the original price estimate.
 
Here's my prediction for the future lineup (not that it matters):

Scarlet - Most features from Epic. Lower bitrate. Smaller body.
2/3" interchangeable lens brain only - <$5000
2/3" fixed lens full kit - <$8k

Epic Lite - most features from Epic. Epic body. Slightly lower bitrate. Current Red One Mysterium-X sensor.
S35 brain only - <$15k

Epic
S35 brain only - $30k
FF35 brain only- $40k+

I don't see RED stopping development on the 2/3" sensors. If 3D really takes off, they'll need smaller sensors to keep the deep depth of field, and the RAW files from these would be perfect for the ample post processing most 3D films entail. It's not really the same audience as the af100, so pricing doesnt have to compete. I don't think people looking for a 2/3" camera would even consider a 4/3", and vice versa. Only problem I see here is a huge price difference between Epic Lite and Epic. I can definitly see the Epic Lite using the Mysterium-X sensor from the Red One but with addr features in the new modular brain.
 
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I dont usually read a lot of the red announcements or comment on them for that matter. Ive always been in the "I'll see it when it's released" camp. But, I think (and thats not important to Red or anyone else either), Red have done the right thing here, market wise, product line wise and clarity wise.
 
dust'n the callipygous said:
I can definitly see the Epic Lite using the Mysterium sensor from the Red One but with addr features in the new modular brain.
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I've seen a few people suggest this. I don't understand why people would think Red would move backwards and remove features (in this case the M-X sensor).

This looks like a simple rebranding, a name change for one product. I don't get the big deal.
 
Epic Lite - most features from Epic. Epic body. Slightly lower bitrate. Current Red One Mysterium sensor.
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EPIC Lite IS the product formerly known as Scarlet S35. Which was priced at roughly half of your predicted quote (last stated price, prior to 1k extra for HDRx). And, which uses the same 5k Mysterium X sensor that EPIC uses (and upgraded RED One cameras use).

Your price could end up being in the ballpark (we'll see). But, your specs are going backwards, not forwards. A camera with a Mysterium sensor from the RED One would not be an "EPIC" camera and would be about as out of place as EPIC Lite was in the Scarlet family in terms of product lines. It would be a RED 2 or something :) The reasoning for the branding clarification is b/c S35 Scarlet and S35 EPIC are already pretty much the same camera using the exact same sensor, and outputting the exact same image quality (data rate for data rate). The lower cost one (EPIC Lite) has lower framerates, lower data rates (and maybe a few less features as well). "Scarlet 35" (a.k.a EPIC Lite) is a part of the EPIC MX family, and will be much closer (identical) in terms of image quality to EPIC than it will be to the 2/3" lineup. Scarlet is 2/3" MX. EPIC is S35 MX. For the time being, anyways....

(to me) it makes perfect sense, and is much more clear now. If it's called EPIC, you are looking at a 5k S35 MX sensor. If it is called Scarlet, you are looking at a 3k 2/3" sensor. (for now... Jim did mention they "have ideas for a future Scarlet that fits well with this category" meaning the Scarlet category)
 
I think everyone's fears is that Jim uses the new "Epic" monicker to kick the former Scarlet S35 from 8K (with HDR) to 14 or 15 K.

If the regular EPIC is 25 K I don't see the "Epic Lite" costing 8K, like Scarlet S35 would.

I sure hope I'm wrong and RED comes out with a basic working Epic Lite package for 12 K.

12 K is pretty much my limit, and still would be a big stretch.
 
Jason Ramsey said:
EPIC Lite IS the product formerly known as Scarlet S35. Which was priced at roughly half of your predicted quote (last stated price, prior to 1k extra for HDRx). And, which uses the same 5k Mysterium X sensor that EPIC uses (and upgraded RED One cameras use).

Your price could end up being in the ballpark (we'll see). But, your specs are going backwards, not forwards. A camera with a Mysterium sensor from the RED One would not be an "EPIC" camera and would be about as out of place as EPIC Lite was in the Scarlet family in terms of product lines. It would be a RED 2 or something :) The reasoning for the branding clarification is b/c S35 Scarlet and S35 EPIC are already pretty much the same camera using the exact same sensor, and outputting the exact same image quality (data rate for data rate). The lower cost one (EPIC Lite) has lower framerates, lower data rates (and maybe a few less features as well). "Scarlet 35" (a.k.a EPIC Lite) is a part of the EPIC MX family, and will be much closer (identical) in terms of image quality to EPIC than it will be to the 2/3" lineup. Scarlet is 2/3" MX. EPIC is S35 MX. For the time being, anyways....

(to me) it makes perfect sense, and is much more clear now. If it's called EPIC, you are looking at a 5k S35 MX sensor. If it is called Scarlet, you are looking at a 3k 2/3" sensor. (for now... Jim did mention they "have ideas for a future Scarlet that fits well with this category" meaning the Scarlet category)
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It seems likely Red might tset up one S35 production line and both versions of Epic will be built on the same line, one hardware set, and two levels of processing. Might mean Epic light gets here sooner depending on demand for the high end version.
 
I wouldn't hold my breath for $12k for a workable ""Epic Lite" package. I think that it will probably migrate to about where the original Red One packages were priced at, in the mid-$20k range, for a reasonably tricked out package.
 
Sorry guys. I meant to say "Mysterium-X" when referring to which sensor I think will be in the Epic Lite. I knew they upgraded the sensor in the RED one, just forgot what it was designated. I don't see the Epic Lite as being much different from a current RED ONE with MX, but in a modular body with HDR mode. I'm sure there will be a few additional features, but that's why I'm estimating the price where I have it. I realize the scarlet s35 was originally priced much lower, but I think this will be more in-line with Original RED ONE pricing. New sensor, minus a few components because it's brain-only may equal a similar price.
 
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I could follow that logic. I don't like to delve into all the speculation, though I'd like to throw in that the current price of the RED One MX is $25,000. A higher-spec'd Epic Light (formerly Scarlet S35), even adding on a side or rear SSD module and a Base I/O module to fully match functionality, will likely come in around the same or cheaper.

Food for thought.
 
I don't like the name change. Epic Lite immediately conjures thoughts of diet soda. Scarlet is an awesome name. They should have kept it.
 
Agreed, Nektonic. I do hope they change the name--it sounds like an oxymoron.

How 'bout 'Epic Begins'? Har har
 
John Caballero said:
An amazing way to do business. No wonder the Japanese took over the camera business. I predict Red won't be a long standing camera business. It would probably eventually be sold to a Japanese company out there! You can't really create cheap super cameras magically. ...
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Lol... RED One was definitelly that freaky super cheap super camera which was created magically because it was labeled like biggest scam and vaporware of all the times! And as they probably sold well over 7000 of them and made big money of it, we can definitelly call it pure magic like it or not... :happy: (Arri already made just only over 100 of Alexas).

And because of that people started to believe that this will happen again. Old Scarlet concept was great, but Jim pumped to much steroids in it that he created rather a "Mini Epic" than Scarlet. And this killed original Scarlet concept. If they can make Epic Lite they should also make Scarlet Lite or whatever name they like even create new brand for it if they feel it doesnt fit in their Pro rank.
 
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btw I think that with departure of S35 Jim will somehow rearrange 2/3 rank of cameras, and that we can expect more price changes.
 
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